Useable power chair for outdoor useage?

[country gent]

I'm looking at a rough surface power chair for me to use outdoors. Country lawns, fairs, fields, ranges and even woods and stream river banks. I'm having more issues getting around with the walker and am looking at the action trac chair currently. This chair is on rubber tracs and is supposedly 4 MPH and 10 mile range. I'm okay with the 4 mph limit but would like a little more range. (possibly add a second set of batteries ) Also since this is tracks it wont be used indoors per say so a gas version might be even better. Another plus to this unit is its American made. Ive worked on power chairs for friends in the past and found them to be wanting in durability over rough terrains. Ive looked at several on the internet and like the looks of this one the best.

[Artful]

quick googlage showed
http://tracfab.net/products/tracfabgas

http://www.tracfab.com/images/at-night-1-493.jpg






5 Gallon Fuel Tank (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)

(Don’t Stop To Charge Batteries) (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)
Welded Roll Cage (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)Electric Start (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)
Keyed Ignition (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)Lighted Fuel Gauge (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)
Pull Start Backup (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)
Seat-back (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html) Recline (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)
Low Seat Height For Easy Transfers (http://www.tracfab.com/tracfab-gas.html)


TracFab Gas
Gasoline Powered Tracked Vehicle
NOTE: User must have control of both hands to safely operate this vehicle.Features include:
Keyed switch for security
Electric start
Made in USA frame, tracks, track sprockets, and gasoline engine – Just to name a few
Virtually unlimited range, no more recharging batteries - Just add more gasoline
More speed and torque than any electric off road vehicle
Steel roll cage protects the operator in the most extreme of maneuvers
Newest generation track configuration climbs steep grades with ease
Will pull heavy items around with ease
Lighted fuel gauge included standard
Easily accessible filters
Dual hand controls
Adjustable footplate
Comfort gel hand grips
Many available accessories
<i style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box;"><span style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: Helvetica; color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBbcgi07-Bk

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYbipbVxLtU

[Artful]

Here's another

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnrcr-rOcuw

Published on Jul 22, 2013
The original tracked Wheelchair now in production as its extreme 2.0 version. Developed by Howe and Howe Tech for wheelchair users, the Ripchair 2.0 is the world's most extreme most capable tracked wheelchair ever built. Search Ripchair 3.0 for the latest Version!

SPECIFICATIONS:
Accepts Most Power Chairs and Self Powered Wheel Chairs
Lightweight Design: Aerospace Grade Aluminum
29 Horsepower 4 Stroke engine
Speed 8-10 mph
Hydro-static Drive with Electric Controls
Dimensions: 72in L x 60in W x 72in H
Emergency Safety Override and Alarm/Alert Tone
Choice of color
Ground Clearance: 10'"
60 Percent Climb Rate
Weight: 1,350lbs
Four-way Swept Dogleg Suspension
Construction Grade Hydraulics and Tracks
1,000 lbs Draw Bar Pull
Fire Extinguisher
Reflective Ripchair 3.0 Front Bumper Logo
STANDARD PACKAGE OPTIONS:
Hunting Rifle/Fishing Rod Holder
Cargo Trays
Control options Joystick or Lever Control (Similar to a Zero Turn Lawn Mower)
Class 2 Receiver
1-72 Watt LED front light bar
1-27 Watt flood light rear
ADDITIONAL PACKAGE OPTIONS:
4 D-Rings- Tow Point Front and Rear
5000 lb Winch
Auxiliary Outlet​
Diamond Plate Package

NOTE: The Ripchair 3.0 Is Also Completely
Customizable For Specific Requests/Needs

information and pricing on RC 3.0 please contact:
Howe and Howe Technologies, Inc. Phone: 207.247.2777 or email ttulo@howeandhowe.com

Inquire at 1-207-247-2777 of visit www.trackchairextreme.com

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y55sPJDDDNo

[Artful]

Wouldn't really call this a wheelchair but it's a gasser

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uMqtZx9tEA

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEytP-jrRIE
http://www.allterrainfreedom.com/
Specs
- 4 or 5 Point Harness
- Suspension Seat with Removable
Bottom Cushion
- 2 LED Head Lights
- 4 LED Tail Lights
- 1 LED Dome Light
- 12v Power Plug
- UHMW Skid Plate
- Removable Foot Rest
- Hour Meter
- TIG Welded Tube Chassis

SpecsHomeContact UsPricing
Standard Equipment
Options
Follow Us

Dimensions
Height 58"
Seat Height 20"
Length 69.5"
Width 53.5"
Weight 1090 lbs. (wet)
Fuel Capacity 7 Gal.
Turn Radius Zero

Engine
Kawasaki
V-Twin 750 cc
Water Cooled
Gasoline/Fuel Injected
ECD Ignition
​Electric Start
29 hp @ 3600 rpm
40 ft-lb @ 2200 rpm

OPTIONS
- Seat Heater
- Adjustable Lumbar
- Different Throttle Configurations
- Different Lighting configurations
- Rear Luggage Rack
- Saddle Bags
- Front Hitch

Phoenix, AZ 85024, USA
+1.4805104383
info@allterrainfreedom.com
https://www.facebook.com/All-Terrain-Freedom-267516176658176/timeline/

https://www.facebook.com/267516176658176/videos/1016204405122679/

[54bore]

Post no. 2 video they should have put some kind of brush gaurd on the front, that one is a bad idea in that you would be beat with brush. The last videos look good, looks like the brush guard issue was addressed!

[mold maker]

The more range you have, and the more mobile in rough terrain, the more trouble your likely to be in when you find out it's limits. Don't go off on your own depending on such a vehicle.
The human body is a marvelous piece of equipment that gets us into enough trouble, but this idea is questionable. If ya get off in rough terrain and have a problem, your not only needing help to extricate yourself but an extremely heavy and awkward piece of equipment. You may be injured/killed and the machine destroyed.
Learn to live within your limitations.
I've learned to enjoy the memories of the exploits I made with a healthy body, and not dwell on what I miss doing now.

[SSGOldfart]

I can't post pictures with this kindle thingy I'm using,but I can tell you, I Really like my track chair. I'm a left side Hemiplegic due to combat wounds, We call it " The Tank" adding more batteries adds weight which will slow you down and add to handling problems,If your in Texas I could let you try mine chair they aren't cheap but they are very well made
Replacement batteries will cost you, I just had a tune up on my 2012 model with new batteries and charger,and a couple of new options it ran nearly $1500.00 being handicapped not cheap Sir are you a Veteran??
I can give you a contact that might help you get into a Ackion Tracker Chair

[SSGOldfart]

Remember that a gas powered chair falls under motor vehicle rules and are out-lawed a lot of places, even with a Electric motor you should carry a prescription requiring the use of a wheelchair..
Gas powered is considered an ATV or a (motor vehicle). Which is not allowed on most government lands

[country gent]

No I'm not a vetran. I seen these and while I don't plan on going completely nuts with it. Being able to run down range at the club to post targets or paint shilouettes would be great, As would being able to go to the treashers conventions and county fairs again. Getting out in the yard and such will also be a big plus. Maybe a few trips in the fall along sides woods to squierrl hunt or along a stream or pond to do a little fishing with the grandkids.

[SSGOldfart]

The Veteran question was because there is a group that helps them get funds for the chair, I don't know much about what they do, but I'll pm you a contact with information he's the S-I-L of the Mfg. And has worked with Bill O'Reilly to rise funds, they also buy back chairs when someone passes on. Then refurbished them and sell or give them away... mine spends many hours in the garden

[imashooter2]

Using those things on your own land would be fine, but trying to take one in public (like a fair) would make you a pariah.

[country gent]

I see golf carts rented or brought into the fairs and threashers conventions routinely here. ( for me getting into most golf carts is harder than it seems). The chair I'm looking at is smaller than these golf carts and more maneuverable. Ive talked with the board at the local clubs I belong to and they all will allow it and think its a good idea. The one I'm considering is a little bigger than a power chair but smaller than the golf carts being used.

[Duckiller]

My wife uses a rental power chair when ever we go to the fair. People who object to other people using mechanical devices to get around need to be kneecapped and have their hips broken. People who need help getting around didn't do it because it is fun. They do it because it is the only way they can reasonably get around.

[SSGOldfart]

Using those things on your own land would be fine, but trying to take one in public (like a fair) would make you a pariah.
I see where your coming from, but yes I disagree with you on this point when your handicapped you have to do what your your able to do,is stepping to the side for a wheelchair really that much trouble????:groner:

[SSGOldfart]

My wife uses a rental power chair when ever we go to the fair. People who object to other people using mechanical devices to get around need to be kneecapped and have their hips broken. People who need help getting around didn't do it because it is fun. They do it because it is the only way they can reasonably get around.
Well said Sir.

[imashooter2]

I see where your coming from, but yes I disagree with you on this point when your handicapped you have to do what your your able to do,is stepping to the side for a wheelchair really that much trouble????:groner:

Those aren't wheelchairs, they are riding mowers. The range should be OK, but they are far, FAR too noisy to be taken to an event like a fair. Heck, they are too noisy to be running down a town sidewalk.

An electric version would be no problem.

[SSGOldfart]

Mine is silent enough to deer hunt out of it

Yep it's electric they do have a wire tray to carry a small generator if you need more distant than the 7 to 10 mile range, I suggested that when Doug delivered my chair and told me it will work with a cord,my day to day power chair doesn't work when plugged in. I stay away from crowded places as much as I can,but not because of my wheelchair I stay in my comfort zone most of the time.

[SSGOldfart]

Those aren't wheelchairs, they are riding mowers. The range should be OK, but they are far, FAR too noisy to be taken to an event like a fair. Heck, they are too noisy to be running down a town sidewalk.

An electric version would be no problem.


They are wheelchairs, I do wish mine would cut the grass though.[smilie=b:

CG you'll have to wade through some replys to collect the information your looking for..

[imashooter2]

Mine is silent enough to deer hunt out of it

Yep it's electric they do have a wire tray to carry a small generator if you need more distant than the 7 to 10 mile range, I suggested that when Doug delivered my chair and told me it will work with a cord,my day to day power chair doesn't work when plugged in. I stay away from crowded places as much as I can,but not because of my wheelchair I stay in my comfort zone most of the time.

And electric eliminates the problem.

[country gent]

I believe the one I'm seriously considering is the same as SSGOldfarts. Action trac chair. They are electric only 4 miles an hour speed and 10 mile range. 2 wheel chair batteries and electric motors. One thing I may do for fairs and such is to make a set of fenders so the tracs arnt out in the open. while I have never been told no when Ive asked for fellow members to post a target or paint gongs at the club. Or friends and or family to help me at fairs and threashers. Its a pain and would be nice to be more self sufficient getting around at these events. A Lot of the local fair grounds parking is pretty rough areas and a wheel chair may take 2 people pushing and or pulling to get it around. This unit would go over thru it and allow me and friends family to be side by side.

[Artful]

And electric eliminates the problem.

Who's - yours? - If someone is handicapped and to get around in all conditions I don't expect them to be stealthy and rigged for silent running - I don't even like electric cars - darned dangerous when you can't hear it moving up behind you.

The Generator option would seem to give the best of both worlds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58HS1L3sios

As for going somewhere and needing help check out SPOT personal locator beacon.

[Artful]

Does seem quite capable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh8l6bPSPY4

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

It is very difficult to say in print with out the possibility of it being misunderstood.So please understand that what follows is in no way meant in ANY disrespect.Just something to consider.

The Wife and I transport Vetrans at Camp Perry every year since 2010 to the range on gas powered golf carts.These are Combat Wounded,many amputees in the bunch.In ALL those years no one has had any issue with the noise.Sometime's just a little consideration for someone less mobile is called for.
Those aren't wheelchairs, they are riding mowers. The range should be OK, but they are far, FAR too noisy to be taken to an event like a fair. Heck, they are too noisy to be running down a town sidewalk.

An electric version would be no problem.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Using those things on your own land would be fine, but trying to take one in public (like a fair) would make you a pariah.

I would hope it wouldn't make you a pariah, but it might make you told not to. As desert forces have found out, tracks reduce fuel range, or if electric increase battery size. For the person who can stand but not walk far, there is a lot to be said for the off-road versions of the Segway. You could use an ordinary car to get it where you will use it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway_PT

[imashooter2]

Who's - yours? - If someone is handicapped and to get around in all conditions I don't expect them to be stealthy and rigged for silent running - I don't even like electric cars - darned dangerous when you can't hear it moving up behind you.

It mystifies me that I am apparently the only one who finds running a motor like that through an event crowd unacceptable.

[country gent]

I wouldn't run a gasoline diesel or propane fired motor indoors or in a crowd not because of the noise so much as the exhaust smells and heat. Also the possibility of carbon monoxide fumes. But then I also don't use cell phones in crowds

[Duckiller]

Country Gent you can use diesel power vehicles in confined spaces. You can not use gasoline vehicles in confined spaces. Contractor wanted to use a gas ATV to haul rebar into a tunnel we were relining. Told them NO unless everyone else left the tunnel. General contractor didn't go for that . Finally borrowed a diesel bobcat set up to work underground to pull the rebars. Diesel powered equipment probably shouldn't be used in highly populated areas.

[Artful]

I wouldn't run a gasoline diesel or propane fired motor indoors or in a crowd not because of the noise so much as the exhaust smells and heat. Also the possibility of carbon monoxide fumes. But then I also don't use cell phones in crowds

As it should be, the choice should be yours...
that said I have been at more than one gathering with venders running generators and running back and forth with ATV/lawn tractor/cart with internal combustion without issues. And l dare say I have been in plenty of crowded places with people on their cell phones competing with each other.

[Artful]

For the person who can stand but not walk far, there is a lot to be said for the off-road versions of the Segway. You could use an ordinary car to get it where you will use it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway_PT

Hmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x56VHd5NDpo

I don't see this in mud or rough terrain - if your own a path or road yeah
but not really good of what I would call off road

[54bore]

Wasn't the inventor of the Segway killed riding one?

[54bore]

Yep he was! I just googled it and read about it, he ran off an embankment and was killed

[jonp]

My wife uses a rental power chair when ever we go to the fair. People who object to other people using mechanical devices to get around need to be kneecapped and have their hips broken. People who need help getting around didn't do it because it is fun. They do it because it is the only way they can reasonably get around.

Most do and I agree with you but there are always those that are just lazy or want special privileges much like those frauds that have "service animals" and make it harder for those that actually need them.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I don't see this in mud or rough terrain - if your own a path or road yeah
but not really good of what I would call off road

I don't doubt there is a lot of terrain where those tracked vehicles would be far superior, but the OP seems most interested in fairs and ranges, and there is many another thing on which you can get killed driving off an embankment.

A long time ago I had myasthenia, and if you must have a serious illness of the nervous system, it is the pick of the bunch. It has no symptoms but extremely fast tiring, which in my case meant falling over and not being able to get up again. I didn't find out until afterwards that people can die when the respiratory muscles are affected, and in my case they weren't. You get temporary remissions, which in the past didn't last, but nowadays the removal of the thalamus gland, particularly during a remission, is frequently a cure, and in my case was practically total. I often wonder if this explains the chap in the Bible who took up his bed and walked when somebody told him he could.

The point is, in my condition I could have pulled the Segway out of the sort of jam just about any device could have got into.

[Artful]

Yep he was! I just googled it and read about it, he ran off an embankment and was killed
Actually Jim Heselden, known locally as Jimi, acquired the Segway company from its U.S. inventor Dean Kamen in December 2009.

Jimi was the one who died in 2010, but Dean Kamen is still working on inventing new products.



The point is, in my condition I could have pulled the Segway out of the sort of jam just about any device could have got into.

Don't know if everyone can wrestle a Seway x2 (outdoor model) that weighs 54 kg out of the mud/snow.

[country gent]

I have considered the segways different models but with my balance issues ( or lack of balance) I haven't looked at them hard. I have looked at a lot of different things, 6 wheeled power chairs, Interesting with a lot of the same issues as the tracked chairs. turning by controlling wheel speeds. Suspension issues with 63 wheels on a side. Inflatable tires that can go flat. The tracked chairs with actual rubber tracks. These tracks run from 6" wide to 12" wide don't go flat, but do have bogey wheels that create some issues with maintenece. The Segway 2 wheel personal transporter. Interesting and looks versatile but must have balance and stand to use. Carrying odds and ends could be tricky also. Also the range of standard power chairs. In paved parking lots and floors these do well, getting off into grass and rough surfaces not so well. The Segway seems easiest to transport and move around. the others will require a truck or special rack to transport.. I have been looking at these for several years off and on but now its getting to be needed.

[SSGOldfart]

CG you might want to look at the quiet cat, they are a bit cheaper to buy, kinda looks like a scooter they also have quite cat all terrain bikes with motor,even cheaper yet. I've been thinking about one of these but not sure I can handle it with one hand??? The track chair can be a hassle to load and carry around, guess I'm on the lazy-side in my old age.:killingpc

[country gent]

I'm looking at their platform for transporting that fits in a receiver hitch and ramps on the side. Most of my use will be here at home and around the yard and getting mail in. I will probably mount a smv sighn on the back just for when I'm close to the road.

[Artful]

I'm looking at their platform for transporting that fits in a receiver hitch and ramps on the side. Most of my use will be here at home and around the yard and getting mail in. I will probably mount a smv sighn on the back just for when I'm close to the road.
Like this?
http://www.discountramps.com/wheelchair-scooter-carrier/p/SC500-V3/
http://cdnll.discountramps.com/images/xxl/wheelchair-scooter-carrier__11.jpg
This deluxe scooter and wheelchair carrier has all the features you'll need for quick and safe transportation of your wheelchair or scooter at an extremely affordable price. Made from black powder coated steel, this carrier holds up to 500 lbs yet it's light and easy to handle. Includes an extra long 59" three position ramp that folds into two pieces for easy storage on the carrier and makes loading and unloading a breeze. Optional Swing-away accessory allows for easy access to the rear of your vehicle.

Accommodates most wheelchairs and scooter and carries up to 500 lbs
Made from durable black powder coated steel
46-1/2" x 28" usable platform
59-1/8" long x 27 1/2" loading ramp included
Easy installation and assembly
Weighs only 86 lbs
Fits Class III and IV 2" hitches
10 tie down points for maximum security
Includes 5/8" hitch pin, ramp, anti-wobble device
Swing away option available

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j_x7wpzwKMM/maxresdefault.jpg
That's a good idea and I would also look into a flashing strobe light for it as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_x7wpzwKMM

[Artful]

CG you might want to look at the quiet cat, they are a bit cheaper to buy, kinda looks like a scooter
This one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pelq8ALyZZ0

[country gent]

I'm talking with the area distributor for trac chair now. They bring the demo chair out to you to test and try right where it will be used. I'm going to set up a time for this and have a friend here with me since 2 sets of eyes and ears are better than one. I'm considering the narrower one that fits thru doors and should be capable of my list of what I want to do with it. Most of the "add ons" I may make myself depending on how involved they get.

[54bore]

If it were me and i was disabled i would stay as far away as i could from a Segway, I don't believe that they were designed with disabled folks in mind? I am not speaking from first hand knowledge here since i have never ridden a Segway, but i have watched several of their videos and they appear to be more of a 'cool' riding toy for people with good balance

[country gent]

The Ohio Action track chair distributer for Ohio is bringing out a couple chairs this Sunday for me to try test here. A stand up model and the narrower seated model I'm interested in. Will be interesting to actually try them out. I have a friend and my Son in law and daughter will be here also to help with questions and information. There is currently a 6 week build time from when ordered. Should be a informative day for us

[Artful]

Awaiting your report on the trials

[54bore]

The Ohio Action track chair distributer for Ohio is bringing out a couple chairs this Sunday for me to try test here. A stand up model and the narrower seated model I'm interested in. Will be interesting to actually try them out. I have a friend and my Son in law and daughter will be here also to help with questions and information. There is currently a 6 week build time from when ordered. Should be a informative day for us


Will you be testing The Action track chair like in post 25 that Artful put up? That one looks to me like the best one on here? That machine looks like a workhorse and then some!! What is the price of one of these?

[mold maker]

Don't expect to use a track chair inside the house. It will be murder to all kind of flooring, and although able to pass door openings, the space required to make a turn before and after the door is prohibitive.
Check carefully the width of a hitch mounted carrier, For whatever reason, they are all very narrow, and the hitch mount will soon have excess flop.

[country gent]

I don't plan on in the house or stores. Turning tracks is hard on carpet linoleums and wooden floors. But inside barns and fair buildings where its plain bare concrete should be good. These are listed as zero turn operation, so like a lawn mower or bobcat they should be able to pin wheel on the center line. The dirt grass gravel asphalt and concrete surfaces I'm looking at should be fine for it. Will find out Sunday for sure. I'm not planning on testing it that hard as post 25 but will put them thru their paces here.

[Blackwater]

I have a friend who's in the last phases of diabetes, and can't make it 100 yards without help. He now "hunts" deer by sitting on his Kawasaki Mule in its shelter by the house, and just watches the field across from his house with his .25/06. He's gotten several that way, and though it's not how he likes to hunt, or wants, to, it's all he's ABLE to do now. And he's humble enough to be thankful that he's got the situation where he CAN do this. Most of his shooting is done off his porch at random targets in the yard, usually pecans or rocks. A friend brought a big pile of dirt for him to use in sighting in guns for others, and for his own test shooting. That's about all he CAN do now. But again, he's thankful to at least be able to do that now. He recently started shooting a local bowling pin match, and usually wins it, because he shoots a .45 and many shoot big capacity 9mm's. It usually takes a 2nd. mag full to clear the table with the 9mm's. But he's very quick and very accurate, though not as quick nor accurate as he once was. Still, I'd really hate to be a bad guy he shot at! I believe they'd not fare very well at all!

So when one gets to where they can't get around very well, it really makes a HUGE difference to be able to get around again! HUGE difference! Best wishes that you find the optimum gadget that will allow you to get back "out there" again!

[SSGOldfart]

Well how did it go? They aren't cheap,but I couldn't do without mine. Careful with the options that will drive up the costs, I wish insurance would cover the cost,but is your freedom to move around again worth the 10k starting cost.I know mine is. I wish you all the luck with your new equipment.

[country gent]

It will be this coming Sunday (5-21) they come out. So I am eagerly awaiting the day. I now have 2 friends and some family coming out. One is interested in it and the other is an electrician who will be helping with maitenence for me. ( Its roughly 3 hours or so to this distributor from my door.) He also has a son with MS and wants to see this unit. I will get as much info as possible when they are here. I'm curious as to the drive train if its gear drive or hydrostatic to each trac like newer mowers are.

[Duckiller]

Artful's post of the carrier works very good. Only install it on the front of your vehicle.Lots of recievers fit the front of trucks. This keeps your chair clean even when it rains and you don't back into things with it.

[MaryB]

Product I have been mulling over in my mind... 4 wheel drive target drone with a remote control. Put your targets on it, run it down range, shoot, bring your targets back to you... I was thinking a 100 pound payload for steel targets... not going to be cheap is the problem. 4 wheel chair motors, some oversized off road type lawnmower tires/rims, frame, electronics, armor plate top, sides and front to protect it from stray bullets... and it is going to be heavy with 1/2 inch AR-500 armor on it... might be able to get away with 1/4 inch on the sides to protect the tires... armor skirts would lift up to move it then lower once stopped for 30 seconds. I have rough engineering in my head which is how all my projects start out! I never draw up a plan!


No I'm not a vetran. I seen these and while I don't plan on going completely nuts with it. Being able to run down range at the club to post targets or paint shilouettes would be great, As would being able to go to the treashers conventions and county fairs again. Getting out in the yard and such will also be a big plus. Maybe a few trips in the fall along sides woods to squierrl hunt or along a stream or pond to do a little fishing with the grandkids.

[Artful]

Product I have been mulling over in my mind... 4 wheel drive target drone with a remote control. Put your targets on it, run it down range, shoot, bring your targets back to you... I was thinking a 100 pound payload for steel targets... not going to be cheap is the problem. 4 wheel chair motors, some oversized off road type lawnmower tires/rims, frame, electronics, armor plate top, sides and front to protect it from stray bullets... and it is going to be heavy with 1/2 inch AR-500 armor on it... might be able to get away with 1/4 inch on the sides to protect the tires... armor skirts would lift up to move it then lower once stopped for 30 seconds. I have rough engineering in my head which is how all my projects start out! I never draw up a plan!

like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuozH9PliBA

[Artful]

Fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6wywziMmPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4So2WNi5ec

The MotoShot™ Elite All Wheel Drive Moving Target System incorporates incredible, lifelike movements such as running, charging, 360° turning with the realism of a hit reactive 3D Target System. Use MotoShot Moving Target System to create dynamic movements and scenarios. MotoShot is an excellent training tool for all types of hostage simulation and decision making drills.

MotoShot™ Elite has an all new formed steel, protective
trapezoid design chassis. All chassis sides are angled 10° which
helps divert errant rounds safely to the ground. Additionally, to build strength and durability, MotoShot uses this formed steel chassis to fully enclose and protect all components, including the rugged 10” solid core wheels.

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o77G7x1t1nQ

[Artful]

Mary look at remote control law mowers for some help/inspiration
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=remote+control+lawn+mower+diy

[MaryB]

Was thinking more for the paper shooters,not something that moves while you shoot. Run the target down range, shoot, bring it back. 1500 yard range out and back...

[Artful]

Lets see 1,500 yd x 3 = 4,500' each way so one trip is 9,000' which is not quite 2 miles.
So you (based on power chair ranges) could only do it 5 times before recharging.
Does that sound like what you are wanting/able to use?

Also from my experience spotting scope isn't going to work that well for
spotting bullet holes at 1,500 yards - so maybe you need to think about
either a secondary camera cart for a wireless system or an arm with
an armored camera box that can let you see your hits.

[MaryB]

I was thinking optional camera, or use a drone... at that range I would prefer a steel target so you can hear the hits. And 5 times down and back on a high power rifle would be plenty for most shooters. Could setup the replaceable target board with 2 side by side targets...

[country gent]

Well gents They came out today and we spent a couple hours With the 2 they brought along with them. It was a real experience being able to get around the yard again and move around. [smilie=2::grin:. Wasn't any harder for me to get on it than getting in a car is. I simply rolled the wheel chair up to it and I stood up and worked into the spot turned around and sat down then picked feet up onto the foot rest. I didn't try getting on from the side with the arm rest raised though. It went everywhere and didn't bog down or struggle even in the soft wet ground, the wheel chair took 2 to push me around though. It is simple to operate and quick to learn. It does take some getting used to as the tracks cause a front to back rock going up and over obstacles I wasn't used to. The joy stick control is easy just push it the direction you want to go and your on your way. Nice heavy materials Basic frame is tig welded together and then rest is bolted. Nice powder coat finish on it and running my hands over surfaces edges I found no sharp or rough edges. Its really a quality unit. 3 year warranty and pretty straight forward on the maitenence. I am getting a quote tomorrow on the 29 1/2" wide model with a few options. Most of these are mounted in 3/4" sockets so making them wont be a big issue either. I really liked this unit and found it very well thought out and desighned. It was comfortable, and very useable. Im thinking of adding a couple transfer handles, as these will give me more to hang on to when transferring in and out of the chair. A cover for when not in use, the arm rests with pockets for more carry room, A upgraded seat for more comfort and a head rest to offer some support above the neck, last is the four point harness instead of the seat belt. This I may see if I can get both and use the harness when on rough terrain and the seat belt for smoother areas. This chair was amazing to me today.

[Artful]

So this was the electric with optional genset for longer range?

[country gent]

That was one misconception when charging it shuts down so running off of the generator isn't possible according to the dealer yesterday. But this one is the electric version and wasn't wanting for power or control.

[SSGOldfart]

Mine will run with the cord plugged into my generator, I guess it depends on which battery charger it has and which power system I upgraded to the 100amp system,for more battery life but it hasn't been a problem. I've made a few longer trips in my track chair,I got the gun rest option than I added a shade umbrella for about $10.00 the tool box is handy for carrying stuff,but the cup holder was carp.

[mold maker]

Well shucks, the cup holder is a deal breaker. Ha Ha.
OP keep us informed, there are quite a few of us that may need the same help in the not too distant future. Having the advantage of your research and experience will be a great benefit.
BTW what will the final weight be for transporting?

[country gent]

Its estimated at 350 lbs, accessories will add to this. Ive got mine on order now sending the check off tomorrow. I'm getting both the seat belt and 4 point harness on it. For smoother ground and ranges I can use the seat belt and for rougher ground and areas the harness. I got the rear rack and the padded arm rests with pockets for some "carry room. The one side has a bottle holder from the nylon / cloth on it also. The cover for it. A headrest and the upgraded seating option. Also a transfer handle. The one nice thing is all the accessories are mounted in 3/4 square tubing so it wont be hard to make what I want either for different things.

[SSGOldfart]

Well shucks, the cup holder is a deal breaker. Ha Ha.
OP keep us informed, there are quite a few of us that may need the same help in the not too distant future. Having the advantage of your research and experience will be a great benefit.
BTW what will the final weight be for transporting?
Sir that cup holder could be a deal breaker when the operator only has one hand
Trust me I'm" Experienced " with this.
CG the seat belt is a must,even when you don't think it's needed. I broke a shoulder by falling out of the seat yep totally my fault I reached down to pick up a bag slid forward,and bump to control which sent me to the ground
The seat belt would have prevented this from happening. Be careful and learn how to use it.

[country gent]

The seat belt or 4 point harness is definitely needed I'm having both installed on mine so I will have the choice of which to use depending on terrain and surfaces. The 4 point harness is basically 2 straps one up higher under the arms and one belly level with a "vest" supporting you around the sides and torso. There is also a leg strap to hold feet back in place on mine.

[Smoke4320]

Came late to the party .. I would have suggested that you rent one for a month or so ..
make absolutely sure it will do all you need before purchasing . Many of these companies are your best friend till they get your money .. Then don't want to look at you again

Good Luck and I really really hope it works well for you

[mold maker]

Smoke, that's exactly the experience my wife had. Everything was promised until Medicare and my ins check cleared. Then they wouldn't even return a call. We're stuck with a chair that's too wide to go through part of the doors.
We had a much older chair that was dropping grease and she thought it was time to replace it.
In order for her to access the rest of the house I spent $900. and waited 5 weeks, for a new motor, and now need a new battery.
The new chair might as well be a yard ornament. I think the Co Rep sells well-used cars on the side.

[country gent]

Smoke I too had considered renting one but After the demo Sunday and running it around in the actual conditions I'm pretty confident its what want. I really felt secure and after a very short "break in" time confident in what I could do with it..

[Blackwater]

Thanks for the report, Gent. None of us knows whether we might need one of those one day. I know I marked it down in my mind. Hope my memory doesn't let it "leak out!"

[country gent]

II couldAlso Smoke I'm not really looking to this chair for an in the house chair. Tracs just wont allow that use I know. But in barns fair buildings and such along with farm fields woods and along the edges think a little squierrl and deer hunting, use on rifle and pistol ranges. Also may out door flea markets and things of that type. I really enjoy taking the grandsons fishing on some of the smaller farm ponds here, but getting to them is almost impossible for me now. Ive looked at several chairs in person and on the internet and researched them as best I could, part of this post was asking for experience with these.

[Smoke4320]

Which model did you get

[country gent]

NT20 its the narrow version with 20" wide seat so it gives me some room to grow. [smilie=1: I got it black with red splash powder coat, up graded the seats, a transfer handle, rear rack, and cover. I actually liked it over the wider model as It seemed easier to control and use. It dosnt have the tilt on the fly.

[Artful]

You still thinking of fenders for it?

[country gent]

Yes I'm thinking about fenders or covers so when in a crowd or larger group people can get snagged by the tracks.

[Artful]

You know if it was me I'd make it like a triangular box in front over the treads about same height at the seat so you could slide across it.

With built in lights in front and multi color led strip on the side,
http://www.tssatcsales.net/uploads/5/3/1/2/53121675/7352858_orig.jpg
sort of like
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ac/70/07/ac700763e2e0d192e9fe9cbb79daea01.jpg
and that would give you storage for stuff as well

- in fact I'd probably make a reflectix / thinsulate lined water proof cloth bag for each side as optional drop in cooler - and another bag made out of cordura for each side with pouches lining the insides for a tool carrier. Like we do for our motorcycle panniers
http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/attachments/equipping-bike-whats-best-gear/7110d1342134028-pannier-inner-bags-inner-bags.jpg
http://www.brandedbiker.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Givi_t443b_v35_pannier_inner_bags_01.jpg

And on the back side
http://www.tssatcsales.net/uploads/5/3/1/2/53121675/969505_orig.jpg
I'd made it separate skirt that covers the motors and comes down to about the wheel hubs of your wheelie bar giving you a flat deck with some tie downs. And maybe a removable rail to hold a cooler or other bulky items.
Maybe put some taillights back there as well
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/af/4d/bdaf4da4c6fdd449094ecf577eb082a8.jpg

[54bore]

They look to be built like little Tanks!

[SSGOldfart]

They look to be built like little Tanks!
They are built like a tank.

[country gent]

Well its down to about 2 weeks now on delivery time. I'm getting ready for it. I'm thinking thru a vehicle to carry it around in and a way to load and unload it. I'm looking at the mid sized ford transporter possibly with the raised roof, for ease of entry for me and also loading in loading. Ive researched the boom lifts that sit in the back corner and just pick it up and rotate to set it in the back. On the van type vehichles this could be tricky as to heights and swing. I'm also looking at making a set of Hitch mounted ramps in a tri fold style. Be easy enough to set up and when not needed pull the pin and side out of receiver. The Boom lifts are expensive to buy and installation may be involved. I can see it needing tied to frame thru the floor. I got the small normal Geo cruiser folding power chair a week ago and its been great its only 60 lbs with the 2 batteries. My Daughter and load and unload it. Not as good in the yard or rough areas but also not 350 lbs. That's where I'm at now on this project. Until I get the trac chair and transporter the rest is simply thinking and working up

[Artful]

Which van? Like this?
https://www.mobilityworks.com/images_vans/ford_transitconnect.jpg
Ford Transit Connect?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3d/de/ec/3ddeec1514fa6b84a79b0d47fb26ad11.jpg
http://www.nor-calvans.com/transit-connect

This is the full size Transit
https://www.fordmobilitymotoring.com/Images/slider/transit.jpg
http://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/vdm_ford/live/en_us/ford/nameplate/transitvanwagon/2017/collections/Billboards/3-2/trn17_wht_bb_3.jpg/_jcr_content/renditions/cq5dam.web.1280.1280.jpeg
Which does come in 3 lengths and 3 heights.

I don't see a Transporter model
https://www.fordmobilitymotoring.com/ChooseVehicle/VehicleTypes#.WT-AhdQrK9I

[Artful]

Have you seen this hitch mounted system
Lift N Go scooter/wheel chair hauler
https://www.scooterdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/6/166_cover2_3/Lift-N-Go-Electric-Lift-36.jpg
http://www.spinlife.com/images/product/21186.jpg
http://www.topmobility.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x600/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/L/I/LIFT-N-GO-CARRIER-210_d771_1.jpg
https://www.scooterdirect.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/1/210-lift-n-go-down-lg_9966/Lift-N-Go-Electric-Lift-32.jpg
http://www.spinlife.com/images/alternate/81911_2_13.jpg
http://www.spinlife.com/images/alternate/81911_1_13.jpg
http://www.spinlife.com/images/alternate/81911_3_13.jpg
Weight Capacity 350 lb

[country gent]

I have considered the outside racks on the receiver hitch. Finding one wide enough for the track chairs roughly 30" width is hard and 380 lbs that far behind the back axle may create issues in wet slippery conditions steering. The transit is the model I'm looking at with the extended wheel base. By getting the chair inside most of the weight will be over or between the wheels not behind it. I also Have some concerns with this chair setting out where everyone can "play with it" when parked in attended. I had the transporter wrong it is the transit. Looked at one Sunday and it appears to be ideal with plenty of room for gear the chair and with 1 back seat 5 passengers. It has a 110 inverter so chair can be charged while driving even.

[SSGOldfart]

Sir look real hard at the space in that Transit use a tape measure,my 22" track chair wouldn't fit between the wheel wells, I have a full size Chevy express van and the wife has a Chevy city express( the little van).my van has the lift mounted to the rear hitch it's for my regular power chair . Whichthechair hangs 450# in my case off the rear makes very little different in handling..
I use a small trailer for the tank/track chair,most of the places I use the "tank" I drive in with my 4x4 dodge ram pulling the trailer,but it easy to load with ramps into a Van or truck chair does all the heavy work..:-P

[Artful]

SSGOldfart what kind of trailer (special built or like HD Harbor Freight)?

[country gent]

Talked to the Ohio distributor yesterday and the proposed ship date for my chair is 7-10 now. So its getting close. I had hoped to have it for the 4th of July to use it for the fireworks, who dosnt want to take a recliner to them LOL. I rough measured the Transit ( 1/2 ton version) and it looks good with only 1 set of back seats. I talked to Mobility works in Toledo and they said its good for 5 passengers and the chair in back plus some room for gear or odds and ends. I'm waiting till I get the chair and can measure accurately and know for sure. If worse comes to worse a pick up with a jib boom in the bed, or power tailgate LOL.

[country gent]

Well as of yesterday the chair still hasn't shipped. The distributor is thinking it will ship Monday or Tuesday to them Then some tests and set up and to me. No I haven't been out reclaiming the wild with it ignoring you guys. LOL.

[SSGOldfart]

Art it's a simple 5X8 from TSC they run about 599.00. Got mine for$499.00 on sale awhile back,it has expanded metal flooring so the dirt from the track chair falls through. your tracks will pickup dirt.

[SSGOldfart]

Well as of yesterday the chair still hasn't shipped. The distributor is thinking it will ship Monday or Tuesday to them Then some tests and set up and to me. No I haven't been out reclaiming the wild with it ignoring you guys. LOL.

You will be soon,good Ideal to wait until you have the chair in hand before committing to a vehicle to carry it. I was looking at the smallest Ford Transit and took the chair with me to pick it up Surprised it wouldn't fit. When I finally got that mess straighten out We picked up a Chevy City Express it fits there just no room for anything Else.so I traded with my wife for a full size Chevy Express 1500,but I've only used it a few times to haul the tank.I prefer my truck and trailer.

[Artful]

I don't know, the more I think about it the more I'd be looking for a $3K to $5K used short bus with lift installed already
http://www.brightbill.com/images/photo/IMG_0053.JPG

Look for one with a used Cummins Diesel with 120K to 150K miles or less,
(they should be good for 400K to 500K) and repaint it with a sense of HUMOR.

http://cdn-fastly.hometalk.com/media/2016/05/20/3398673/shaw-hillbilly-bus-painted-furniture-painting.jpg
or more to my tastes
http://stmedia.startribune.com/images/1478735522_10078961+1mnpresvt111016.JPG

[Duckiller]

Country Gent don't install a rack behind your vehicle. Bad weather will get it very wet and very dirty. A receiver hitch installed on the front of your vehicle will let you put a ramp in front and keep your chair reasonably clean in bad weather. A BBQ cover works to keep my wifes chair reasonably dry in rain. Enjy your new chair and the increased mobility

[country gent]

I'm not sure a chair on front will be legal in Ohio. I have thought about it though. Ive looked at a lot of options on the internet, Lifts mount trailer ( Bruno Chariot), power tailgate from the larin lift to actual power tailgates ( tommy lift and several others) vehicle mounted lifts that are under electric hydrolic power, Vans that squat to lower them closer to start with. Jig cranes that mount inside and swivel things in.

[SSGOldfart]

be sure you post a few pics when your chair gets there and be careful there is a small learning curve to using these track chairs

[country gent]

I just heard from the distributor chair ships today actually goes out tomorrow. She will have it Tuesday or Wensday. The uncrate and set up a little programming and its on to me. She and her husband will deliver it. A little time going over maintainence and upkeep. what to look out for and Ill be way more mobile. I'm excited now.

[country gent]

They are delivering the chair tomorrow between 1:00 and 2:00. May be a little longer than the demo was as they will go over warranties use of loading unloading tieing down maintenance and other adjustments . Tonight is Christmas eve for me. LOL. I have a couple friends coming out for this to make sure everything is remembered. I picked up a 6'X9' utility trailer last week to haul it temporarily. I may need to make an extension for the ramp gate on it though. I will know tomorrow for sure.

[country gent]

The chair is here and all set up. I was trained and shown its use and how to be safe. ( my new trailer is going to need a ramp extension on it). Its slower than the geo cruiser chair and not quite as quiet but it has way more power and stability. EVEN with the wider, longer base bumps and angles seem steeper and rougher due to the tracks, But with the added four point harness I'm secure and stable in the chair. I got both the seat belt and harness so I can use the appropriate one for what I'm doing. I am pleased with it. The black with red splash really looks sharp to.

[country gent]

Heres a couple pics of it.200676200677

[OnHoPr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCmC-1bJkto&index=24&list=PL49oqRPQBaYx5977giUi4N3m8eUMfsXsl


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEYwmSk0ZAg&list=PL49oqRPQBaYx5977giUi4N3m8eUMfsXsl&index=25

Maybe get an idear here, think of your interested terrain, maybe even lower the gear ratio, come up with own design , build it, and not break the bank.

[Detroitdanm]

Very handy looking implement. Sorry you have need for such a beast, but glad you got it to be able to keep living to the fullest. Interested to hear a review. Safe travels in your freedom machine.

[country gent]

Been using the trac chair daily around the yard with very favorable results. Have not found anything here to stop or slow it down yet. Sunday Son and law and I took it down to the club and ran around for a couple hours testing and seeing what I would need to change. Made a couple trips down range on the rifle range of 200 yds and back thru soft sand with no issues the hill on the front of the firing line wasn't any problem either. I even went over a couple of downed branches around 4"-6" in dia with it. Went to 25 yd and 50 yd on pistol range again no problems or issues there. Traveling around the club on it was very good and simple.
The one thing I did find was We had to adjust the head rest some for the rougher terrain due to the rock of the chair going over rough spots. Any space between head and rest I got slapped in the back of the head when it rocked over LOL. It was sort of like my wife was alive and with me only not as hard LOL.
After around 3 hours I was down 2 bars on the battery gage. I went over 4"-6" bumps edges of concrete and or the wood faces on gravel areas. Sod and soft sandy areas. The bridges are all old semi trailers so plenty strong and wide for it.
On the pistol range to go to 50 yds I had to go to one end or the other since I don't want to run over the turning target mechanisim at 25yds with it. Not a big problem there though. The sod area was no problems and the concrete areas were easy. The high performance range with the wood chips laid down were no problem and it walked right across them. Walking you sink in 2"-3" in wet weather the chair wasn't near that. The tracs with there 6 1/2" width nd 48" length spread weight out over a much larger area than feet or wheels do.
Its been an amazing piece of equipment so far. I am very pleased so far with it. It runs a decent length of time on a charge and charges quickly. It loads and unloads easily onto the trailer. I bought a 6' X 9' utility trailer from tractor supply. This size will allow me to move my mower and some other things around easier. Mine has the wood floor (2'X6") and drop down end gate / ramp. Its on the steep side to rife up but the chair runs up empty fine.
We would have been done sooner but there was a lot of interest in it from club members on all the ranges. While I didn't do any shooting from it Sunday Its going to be a valued tool for me with my mobility issues and balance issues. I can get my feet on the tracs and fold the foot rest up having a place for me feet under me when standing up. The seat belt was fine here but I have the harness on it too for when things get wild.
This Saturday were going to the hot air ballon day and will be taking it along. For my wanted uses this is going to be more than useable, County Fairs, Threasers conventions, Range use, and a little fishing and hunting. It is amazing what this chair will do.

[country gent]

First time out in public with the trac chair, went to a local county fair. Chair did great, made the "walking" much easier on me and went thru a rough field parking lot with no issues. A lot of stares and people asking questions about it. Have some things to do to make it better one is a "Reacher" I can carry under an arm rest for when I drop things, reaching down to the ground means removing the seat belt or harness raising the foot rest and sliding forward to be able to bend down low enough. It went thru the show buildings and animal buildings with no issues. I do need to wash the tracs down after going thru the animal barns LOL. One other issue is the food venders are set up with windows for people standing not sitting so that's a little issue to deal with. Daughter was really happy with it as I carried the diaper bag, her purse, and the stroller part of the time for her. It was really good getting out to the fair again, its been 5-6 years since I could go and walk that much. A lot of the ones in power scooters were asking about it as they had problems with the terrain in parking lots and some areas of the fair grounds when off the pavement. I did set it down to 3 on the speed level and I could run with out having to worry about running over people in front of me. One other thing both me and my daughter noticed was that people seemed to give it More room than the traditional power chairs and scooters. All in all I ran it about 5-6 hours and still had 2 bars left on the power meter when we loaded it to go home. Was a great day today good weather and the chair exceeded my expectations all around. Seen a couple friends there.

[blackthorn]

If a lot of people are asking questions, maybe you could pick up a bit of extra cash being a salesman for the company that made that chair?

[country gent]

I am going to ask the distributer to send me a few of her business cards as its easier than repeating the information everytime. LOL. I would rather see the others who need this equipment have it available to them than make a few bucks of it.

[country gent]

Had the track chair outto Auglaize today testing to see how it would do and what I need to change on my equipment to shoot from it. It did great on the range, some of the firing lines werefu going over as they are taller and narrow in width so the chair didn't just rock over to the new surface but over to the back slope of the firing line. No big deal but took some getting used to. LOL. I need to extend the spotting binoculars back about 8" - 10" from the center of the tripod to get them back far enough for proper eye relief. I did spot for a shooter with his scope 1 leg in front of chair and other against track. 45* eye piece rolled level and I slid forward in the seat a few inches, but it worked well. Didn't shoot any but have a good idea of what I need now. The reacher mounted on the chair was handy today and worked well, but need to get or make a heavier duty one with a little more grip to it. With the arm rests folded up shooting should go well. New sticks 12" taller than my old ones are in the works now. This is working out real well. A friend picked me up and we dropped the trailer of out of the way at the range and I rode the chair and this allowed us to work from the back of his vehicle as we normally do. After the match we hooked up to the trailer and loaded the chair tied it down and were off to lunch.

[mold maker]

I was really afraid that you would get stuck with a chair that was not able to provide what you need, or was totally un-serviceable. Lots of order takers out there, are only interested in the sales commission and don't even try to accommodate the customer.
My wife was delivered an electric wheel chair that wouldn't pass through half our doors. They wouldn't take it back because she scuffed the arm pads before we realized the problem. It cost me more to remodel the doors than the chair cost. It also won't fit on the carrier I already had. Returning an item that Medicare has paid no is a PIA.

[Blackwater]

Thanks for all your reports Gent! There are many here who may wind up needing something like that in the future. Your write-ups really help a lot!

[country gent]

I have to say this track chair has really amazed me even for the short time Ive had it now. I have yet to find a burr or sharp edge any where, even on the under sides or inside of parts. Its been dependable and mostly for a rough terrain chair has yet to let me down, although I may have let it down chickening out and backing out of where it seems to steep an angle. Its handled heavy grass weds mud soft sand gravel alpalpha stubble all with no issues. Since its not an "Indoor" chair this is a small issue but the tracks do pick up and hold mud and other crud from barns and animal areas for awhile. The joy stick makes easy one hand operation easy. The "stake pocket" mounting for accessories is quick and simple. I have modified a Reacher/grabber to carry on mine for when I drop of find things on the ground. I also considering a back pack with a frame for behind the seat to give more carry room, I can only put so much on my lap or other hand. The back pack would be more organizable than a milk crate of the rack in back having more compartments. It really seems to be a quality unit and true American craftsmanship for a long ago era when people were willing to sighn their work.