Can I hook up propane to a NG stove for testing?

[Whiterabbit]

I bought a wedgewood and am refurbishing it.

I've gotta be 50-75 feet from the nearest NG line in my house. The stove also weighs something like 500 pounds so I don't want to move it and find out need rear access to fix the burners or exhaust manifolds.

Can I hook up propane to test the pilot lights and ignition? I know the heat output will be all wrong, and that the nozzle diameter is what dictates propane vs NG, but for the purposes of pilot light testing and ignition testing, can I just use propane, get it running reliable, THEN move it into my house?

I have had zero luck finding bottles of natural gas.

[AlaskaScott]

It will burn hotter than indicated. Propane has more heat per volume than natural gas. I hooked up a " natural gas" grill to propane and never had trouble.

[DougGuy]

Funny...


http://www.youtu.be/watch?v=uPydYy64_3w

[cwheel]

No, different pressures required, not safe, especially if done inside.
Chris

[MaryB]

Many stoves have a NG/Propane orifice stashed under a cap in the gas system... easy to swap it.

[AlaskaScott]

Well, yes don't be a dummy and run a high pressure propane regulator. Either run a low pressure regulator or variable pressure regulator

[dbosman]

Roughly $15 for a low pressure propane regulator. Propane or RV dealer should have them. Online is easy.

[RED333]

As long as you are just testing there will be worries. You will get some soot but not much.

[turtlezx]

dont open the tank valve much 1/8 of a turn

[Three44s]

This reminds me of watching Red Skelton locally and live just before he passed away, and it goes like this:

"Did you ever hear the one about the guy who jumped out of the airplane?"

"He pulls his cord and nothing happens ........

............. he pulls his emergency cord ................

.......... and still nothing ............

Now he's wondering what's next?

He looks down and sees a fellow coming up and yells down to him .......... Hey do you know anything about parachutes?

The fellow going up answers back ......... No, but do you know anything about Coleman gas stoves???"


************************************************** ****

I would get the right hardware to keep things safe because fire plays for keeps.

Be safe and Best regards

Three44s

[rancher1913]

did it to a outdoor stove my wife used for canning, stove was a freebie and we only have propane out here. I did not want to change out orifices or spend any money on it as it was just temporary, worked fine for 2 years until we got her permanent outdoor kitchen done. only issue is soot on bottoms of pots and the oven is useless because of the soot.

[jmorris]

I have converted both ways before. NG uses a larger jet size than propane and NG uses lower pressure than propane. There are externally adjustable (generally red) high pressure propane regulators that you can start at "0", these are pretty good for testing.

I even have fittings and valves that I can run engines on with these. Academy and other places sell them for the larger fish/turkey fryers most often, most of the ones for grills and such are pre set and not user adjustable, at least without a little destruction and some are not adjustable at all.

[iomskp]

I would contact a local Gas fitter I'm sure he would have the appropriate fittings, it does not take long to change the unit over and it should not cost much and it will be cheaper than the damage you can cause to yourself and your property.

[Whiterabbit]

An appliance repair guy clued me into a good tip. Said use a rubber hose. Just like a bunsen burner. It's just a temporary test. Lets me source a long hose cheap, and test the stove with the proper gas.

[WilliamDahl]

An appliance repair guy clued me into a good tip. Said use a rubber hose. Just like a bunsen burner. It's just a temporary test. Lets me source a long hose cheap, and test the stove with the proper gas.

A shop air-tool hose works great for propane or natural gas with the correct adapters. If it's only 50-75 ft from the nearest natural gas, I would probably just do that since I already have that much air hose and if I didn't have the adapters, I could easily pick them up at Home Depot for a couple of bucks.

To run natural gas in a device that is setup for propane, you need a larger orifice. For a propane grill, drilling out the orifice with a 1/16" drill is about right. If I was trying to go the other way like the OP is doing in this case, I would probably just barely crack the propane supply valve to control the flow of propane instead of relying on the controls on the front of the natural gas device.

[Whiterabbit]

I'm thinking garden hose. 100 feet for $15, ID is 5/8", I already have the barb fittings to NPT, I can hook it up to my 1/2" water heater line and go straight to my 3 foot stove line.

Only thing I can't seem to find is a gas valve that connects to gas fittings rather than NPT. Not really needed but I'd value the second shutoff point.

[RED333]

I'm thinking garden hose. 100 feet for $15, ID is 5/8", I already have the barb fittings to NPT, I can hook it up to my 1/2" water heater line and go straight to my 3 foot stove line.

Only thing I can't seem to find is a gas valve that connects to gas fittings rather than NPT. Not really needed but I'd value the second shutoff point.

It is most likley a 45* bull nose fitting or flair, Home Depot or Lowes or TSC just might have it.

[Just Duke]

Many stoves have a NG/Propane orifice stashed under a cap in the gas system... easy to swap it.

What she said

[WilliamDahl]

I'm thinking garden hose. 100 feet for $15, ID is 5/8", I already have the barb fittings to NPT, I can hook it up to my 1/2" water heater line and go straight to my 3 foot stove line.

Only thing I can't seem to find is a gas valve that connects to gas fittings rather than NPT. Not really needed but I'd value the second shutoff point.

I normally just use the ball valves like this one from Home Depot.

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/400_compressed/98/980151de-fce3-4f9a-ac85-f5cdf89c661e_400_compressed.jpg

There's not much pressure involved with natural gas, so this sort of valve is rather overkill, but it's reasonably priced and can be used for other things later on if the need arises.

[MT Gianni]

Wow, the range is convertible. The reg is at the rear of the stove or one will need to be added. Ensure it is set to LP. Turn the pilot adjustment screw in until the flame burns blue but barely yellow is still ok. IME it is nearly impossible to burn lb without a bit of a yellow tip. Pilots should be crisp and not floating or wavering as a candle flame does. The burner valve is adjustable on anything up to the early 90's. Take a 9/16" wrench and turn the orifice in until it bottoms out. The center hole is for LP there is a tapered cone that lets out extra gas for Natural. Do the same with the oven. All air shutters will need to be adjusted, in general for LP it means opening them but the most important part is ensuring they light from the pilots and burn with a proper flame cone. You should see at least three different cones in the burner flames a sharp inner cone a larger center cone and an outer cone that should have only a minimum of yellow. They should be crisp and defined. PM if any questions.

[Whiterabbit]

Public benefits everyone.

I've got it 90% covered now thanks to some help in here, the last issue is the right side oven, the pilot is lit and adjusted, but the ignition is weak for the main gas. That is, when I turn it on, the pressure is VERY low. I have the 9/16 needle valve completely open at this point, no joy. Barely enough gas comes out to keep it lit. Inline is the control knob, the solenoid for auto turn on, and the safety valve. That's it!

Each "seems" to be working properly. But the gas is just not coming through. If left to myself, I'm going to start swapping parts from left side to right side to see if it's a "stuck" control knob, a "stuck" safety knob, or "stuck" solenoid (or just remove this for testing).

Not sure if there is a better way. There is no good guides online for taking apart adn adjusting the oven control knob, but I'm really thinking it has to be in the control knob. Like a misalignment somewhere restricting gas flow.

I'd hate to disassemble the control knob for gasket reasons, but not sure it cam be avoided at this point. Maybe someone knows if this is a common ocurrence and if there are comon solutions?

[MT Gianni]

Oven control should have a screw under the knob faintly labeled N, 1/4 turn off then one moe 1/4 turn LP. Make sure that you are on the correct gas. I am assuming that there is no pilot safety to heat. Worse case remove the burner line going out of the valve and the orifice and make sure that it is clear.

Do not tap on it with anything larger than the plastic end of your screwdriver no matter your frustration level. I have never had a non electric control valve fail partially, they either open or refuse to.

How much flame do you get at the end of the burner? Some of the older ranges did not cycle on and off but went to a minimal flame when the thermostat was satisfied. Shock it with a rag of ice water but do't hope for much. Watch the other oven as it reaches temp. Does it modulate down or shut off? If it modulates you may have a bad tstat, probably integral to the valve.

Wedgeworth commercial or residential, just to satisfy my curiosity.

[Handloader109]

Btw, if you use a ball valve on it now or later, and you should put a cutoff behind the stove.make sure you use one that is rated for natural gas! Not a water valve!

[Whiterabbit]

wedgewood residential. I'm leaving for a business trip tomorrow, will have to respond with the next round of poking at it based on your great suggestionsin a week or two.

Thank you!

---------------

But for current performance:

The T-stat has been used at room temp only so far. Oven never gets a chance to heat, I've just been turning it on, then off. Flame is so low, or specifically pressure is so low that flame will wave down the oven nozzles, as there isn't enough gas coming out to maintain flame through every gas port.

There is definitely a pilot safety (more specifically a safety shutoff for the main gas to make sure you cannot turn the oven on without a pilot), but that seems to operate OK. I let the pilot run for 3-4 minutes then press the safety and gas starts flowing. However, that doesn't mean the safety valve isn't restricted somehow. I don't know how often that's an issue.

Left oven gets a nice strong flame. But to date I have not let either oven actually heat up, so I don't know if it runs on-off or on-throttle. so far I have just been testing ignition and strength.

[Whiterabbit]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fa/87/d2/fa87d270f5fa9e6a1c2707b492c2a611.gif

has this safety valve underneath

http://www.antiquestoves.com/toac/safetyvalves/graysnts7.JPG

oven thermostat looks like this:

http://www.antiquestoves.com/toac/thermostat%20problems/thermbj.jpg

[RED333]

That Tstat runs on-bypass-off, it is a "BJ" style tstat
Set tstat temp to 350, at set point(350) the tstat will go to bypass, the flame will get very small, to about 1/4 inch high to hold the temp at set point. If the temp gets to high above set point the tstat should cut the gas off. One of the screws will set the bypass flame height. The other screw might be for calibration.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI0nhzf6oK0
There should be a data tag that will give gas pressure info in inches of water column. 1 psi of pressure has 28 inches of water column pressure.
Here is a home made one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnlfQK-8qy4

[MT Gianni]

Nice range from the 50's. At minimum the control valves could stand to be greased. I think that the modulating flame issue us probably tstat related.

[Whiterabbit]

Got it troubleshot, but not sure how much father I can go.

The problem is the TS-7 safety valve. The thermostat won't hold the solenoid open.

Confirmed because it's a double oven. I swapped the safety valve, now my left oven is broke, and the right works like a champ. Also, I watched operation from the gas ports with the valves disconnected. I can clearly see the valve open properly (this is the working unit) when hooked up to each thermostat. The broken one, it doesn't hold open. Whatever assembly keeps the spring from closing the valve when hooked up to the thermostat is non functional on one pickle valve.

The real pickle, is that I can't figure out how to open the valve. It is sealed up TIGHT.

Not sure if I should go ahead and crank like crazy on the housing. I fear it'll break before it opens up. Unless that's the right way to do it.

Any of you guys ever service a TS-7 safety valve? Or at least know how to open it up?

I'm ALMOST there to a working stove!

[RED333]

Any of you guys ever service a TS-7 safety valve? Or at least know how to open it up?

No I do not repair a safety valve, way to much issue with the courts and lawyers. I do replace the bad parts, as in the whole valve. Or send it to a pro. Bunch of links here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=TS-7+safety+valve&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[Whiterabbit]

Seems like a closely guarded secret. Been scouring the web via google and can't find any information about how to pop the body of this valve open. Is it threaded? sealed? RTV? liquid threadlocker? No threads at all? keyed? etc etc etc. Frustrating, because there are vendors who claim they will rebuild these valves. So they have to be rebuildable.

I totally get that a master appliance repair expert (or any repairman) would choose not to take on the liability of personally repairing a valve. But it seems like people are being intentionally obfuscatory about getting into this valve.

Even people who want to open one up to explore and document are confronted by waves of responses claiming "you'll put your eye out, kid!"

frustrating.

[MT Gianni]

I apprenticed as a gas serviceman in 1980 and saw a few of those. Even in a small out of the way area where we did most ourselves the answer was send it in. Sorry.