ar 15 cast loads intell?

[Littlewolf]

ok here goes
20" 1/7RHnato twist
new dpms upper, bolt carrier
gi bolt , gas rings
gi buffer , spring

i have the 47gr spire point 225450 1cav mold. read a lot of 55+grn cast with powder charge of imr or hodgdons 4895 between 18rgn - 22.0grn some filler some not. some powder coated some lubed.
i plan for all boolits to be checked, mostly PC"d

here is you chance to the guys that have tried and succeded loading for ar15's to make *********t suggestions for how i should load cast ammo for fastas i can squeeze the trigger shooting.

thanks guys in advance

[FLHTC]

Get your alloy hard. I use 10 to 12% Linotype. There are plenty of good lubes but I use Jakes Scarlet. Gas checks and sized to .225.

http://www.jakesproducts.com/xcart/

[Eddie17]

Just came back from the range with my first AR build.
My cast bullets were loaded to long for my rifle. Lee mold, PC'd, only loaded 20 so went home and shortened OAL. Back to range after seating bullets deeper hit steel plates at 100 and 200 yards"
Plates are 12" plus or minus.
Will go for paper next, just happy to get the rifle running,
Used Lee C225-55 -R, pushed with 22g of IMR 4895,
also started with 55g FMJBT over 23.5g IMR to sight in.

[Sghinds]

I have loaded the Lee C225-55 powder coated with and without gas checks. 19gr of Winchester 748 with no gas checks gave me my best group, 2 1/2 inch at 100 yards. I have since loaded up 50 more rounds to test lower powder charges (17gr-19gr in .5 gr increments) and have 5 of each with and without gas checks. I plan to shoot them as soon as I can get some free time to test to make sure my previous session and the 19gr of 748 with no gas check is in fact my best and most accurate load. I loaded my previous rounds from 19.0gr - 23.0 gr and the groups got really big the higher I went. So thats my main reason for going lower, hopefully I can get better than 2 1/2 inches, but if not, that is more than accurate enough for just range plinking with the AR.

195363
195364

[Littlewolf]

thanks guys
if anybody else has intell i would greatly appreciate it.
my barrel has the 1/7RH nato twist, im guessing i may need a heavier than 55gr boolit

[lotech]

I realize cast and jacketed bullets have different characteristics, but give the 55 cast a workout before you buy something else. I didn't expect 53 Sierra MKs would shoot accurately in a 1 in 7" twist, but they do in my Colts. A .22 centerfire will often work very well with wheelweight soft bullets at higher velocities as long as the fit is good, but it's worth experimenting with different degrees of hardness.

You may be able to get by without a gas check, but generally a gas check design will be more accurate with gas checks in place, particularly if velocities exceed a moderate level. Certainly worth trying with and without.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I had a Herters version of the 225 450
good luck not damaging the nose during sizing and/or GC seating/crimping.
I never loaded it for AR and suspect as you already stated, it's probably too light and I'll add it has a short bearing surface for your 1:7 twist.

I tried it in a slow twist Hornet and wasn't impressed with accuracy, but I suspect it was poor runout caused by a seating die that didn't do it's job correctly, I sold the mold before I realized the issue...as I figured it out with a different boolit at a later date.

[Littlewolf]

JonB, thank you. i have a 1cav ideal 225450 it will reliably make a $0.25 hole w a 5shot in my NEF hornet, BUT like you said in a 1/7 twist there is a lot of doubt unless its BHN26 lead and that is sketchy. to me the bator is an ugly design i'll look into somebody else's 55gr+ design

[Smk SHoe]

Look at Arsenal mold's "Elvis". it's a 61 grain ( mine throws at 62ish) .225 Slick side for PCing. Mine in front of 21ish grains of AA2230 cycles reliability and has pretty good accuracy. Bullet is designed to feed, nice smooth ogive and a long nose.

[dogmower]

I shoot the rcbs 55 grain (forget the mold number, but its the flat nose), pc, over 20-22 grains aa2230. grapefruit size groups at 200 m with a little 1-4x scope. no leading, and cycles 100%.

[Sghinds]

I went out this weekend and shot my cast/pc bullets. Had 7 fail to chamber, I think they were loaded a touch too long, but overall a successful trip. Pics have the load data (powder charge, GC/no GC). I was shooting with a slight crosswind, so don't know how much of an effect it had on my groups. I am not looking for super precision, just decent plinking ammo for some range/trigger time. Mold is the Lee 225-55 6 cavity, Traffic orange PC from Smoke and sized to 225 with a Lee push through sizer.


https://preview.ibb.co/jYLFfv/Cast1.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/fvnHtF/Cast2.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/hR2stF/Cast3.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/moBVfv/Cast4.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/ijngna/Cast5.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/d0qdYF/Cast6.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/iQSgna/Cast7.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/jskO0v/Cast8.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/eFk1na/Cast9.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/e9P5DF/Cast1.jpg

[nh7792]

I went out this weekend and shot my cast/pc bullets. Had 7 fail to chamber, I think they were loaded a touch too long, but overall a successful trip. Pics have the load data (powder charge, GC/no GC). I was shooting with a slight crosswind, so don't know how much of an effect it had on my groups. I am not looking for super precision, just decent plinking ammo for some range/trigger time. Mold is the Lee 225-55 6 cavity, Traffic orange PC from Smoke and sized to 225 with a Lee push through sizer.


https://preview.ibb.co/jYLFfv/Cast1.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/fvnHtF/Cast2.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/hR2stF/Cast3.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/moBVfv/Cast4.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/ijngna/Cast5.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/d0qdYF/Cast6.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/iQSgna/Cast7.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/jskO0v/Cast8.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/eFk1na/Cast9.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/e9P5DF/Cast1.jpg

Nice to see the difference between GC and no GC with PC.

[Kaiser Mike]

What overall length are yall using with the Lee molds. It'll be a bit till i can afford a good spire tip mold.

[Motor]

I'd like to know how in the world you got the Lee 55gr to shoot WITHOUT gas checks. With AL checks I get about 4" groups at 50 yards. Without the checks it 2 feet or more at 50 yards.

I see no evidence of bullet failure (no fouling in the bore). I size mine .2255" and PC them. The loads should be in the 2000fps range and do cycle the rifle which has a 1in9 twist barrel.

I'm not the only one who has had results like this either. Same goes for the AL gas checks. Most good results I've seen with the Lee 55gr was when using copper checks.

Motor

[flyingmonkey35]

I still just shoot my bolt action Savage

Lee 55grn powder coated no gas check. Over 8 grains of trail boss

It my 22lr replacement.

I split a card with it at 50 feet.

For the AR I just use Xtreme bullets. I don't shoot it enough mess with cast anymore And gas checks suck to put on.


Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

[Motor]

What overall length are yall using with the Lee molds. It'll be a bit till i can afford a good spire tip mold.

I'm using 2.125" OAL with the Lee 55gr cast bullet in .223 Rem. I get good reliable function in an inexpensive AR-15 upper. Like I said above though I haven't been able to find good accuracy yet. This project has been on the back burner.

I'm real tempted to get a .225" reamer and have my friend who owns a tool grinding business grid a pilot on it to ream out the gas check bores and make it a plain flat base mold.

Motor

[mac1911]

I was given some 223 cast bullets , enough to play with they where 55-57 grains gas checked white label lube. H4895 powder I got reliable function at 20 grains and best groups at 21.5 . I ran out of those bullets but I plan on getting back to it eventually

[mto7464]

thanks guys
if anybody else has intell i would greatly appreciate it.
my barrel has the 1/7RH nato twist, im guessing i may need a heavier than 55gr boolit

I read an article where they did some testing with light j bullets in faster twist barrels and it shows no ill effect or loss of accuracy.

[Larry Gibson]

I read an article where they did some testing with light j bullets in faster twist barrels and it shows no ill effect or loss of accuracy.

The results of that report are correct IF one is using a quality commercial bullet that is balanced and that has a strong enough jacket to hold up to the high RPMs. Another caveat is the shorter bullets at Higher RPM are not as accurate at longer ranges.....you don't/won't see any match shooters shooting them at HV/RPM at long range.

With cast bullets the conclusion of that article do not apply.

It is quite refreshing to see (f)actual AR cast bullet test targets posted. I commend Squinds.

[mto7464]

The results of that report are correct IF one is using a quality commercial bullet that is balanced and that has a strong enough jacket to hold up to the high RPMs. Another caveat is the shorter bullets at Higher RPM are not as accurate at longer ranges.....you don't/won't see any match shooters shooting them at HV/RPM at long range.

With cast bullets the conclusion of that article do not apply.

It is quite refreshing to see (f)actual AR cast bullet test targets posted. I commend Squinds.

Of course you are right, I use and 80 grain out to 600 and 69 for 2-300. But for short range should not be a big deal.

Squinds, thanks for the work up. I may be scraping my ideas to cast for my ar's. J's are too cheap.

[nicholst55]

Here's some info: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test

[picaresque]

I've been working on cast loads for semiautomatic rifles for a while now. I was inspired by BruceB's thread that is a sticky at the top of this forum. I encountered issues unrelated to the cast bullets in my M1A -- I subsequently found out that this rifle did not like hard primers. Given the issues with the M1A, I moved to working up a similar round for a Ruger mini 14, and later an AR15.

To begin with, I would not try to push a cast bullet at speeds approaching 2,000 feet per second out of any rifle without using a gas check. As you know, cast bullets have a speed limit of around 1900 fps that can be broken by using gas checks. Even with gas checks, cast bullets will lose accuracy at a certain point. This point will vary from rifle to rifle, and on other factors, such as bullet weight, powder type, etc.

I read on one of these forums that a good starting point was to find data for a jacketed bullet of the same weight, etc., using the powder desired, and start at sixty percent of the maximum load for that jacketed bullet and powder. I happened to have good luck with IMR 4895 -- I also happened to have several pounds of it on hand, so I started with that load. I then worked up from that mark at half grain increments to the point that the rifle -- in this case, the Mini 14 -- functioned reliably. I then worked up from there, again at half grain increments, watching the groups tighten up -- until they began to open up again. I figured I had reached the accuracy limit I had read about. To wring the most accuracy from the round, I then worked up from the load that had produced the best group, this time at increments of one tenth of a grain. My optimal load for the Mini 14 was using a RCBS 55 grain spire point bullet cast in air cooled wheel weights and lubed with a home concocted bullet lube, sized at .225 with a gas check, over 17.5 grains of IMR 4895, set off with a TulAmmo small rifle primer. I used military grade LC brass. At the time the TulAmmo primers were the only ones I could get.

I subsequently obtained an AR-15. In experimenting with the above load, I concluded that a direct impingement AR action needs more gas to function than a gas piston powered rifle like the Mini 14. My optimal Mini 14 round turned the AR into a single shot rifle. Working from the 17.5 grain Mini 14 round, I found that the best round for the AR required 19.0 grains of the same powder, with all other components being identical.

Shot through a later model Mini 14 Ranch Rifle, the 17.5 grain rounds choreographed consistently at slightly over 1900 fps. The 19.0 grain loads choreographed through the same rifle at around 2050 fps. Accuracy was roughly the same for both rounds.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[Harter66]

I shoot a NOE 225-55 @62gr in the AR I shoot with a 1-8 twist at 2050 fps with H322 . It matches basically jacket groups with assorted factory 55 gr FMJ .