Doctrine

[rl69]

I met a fellow in his early 80's late 70's.he was telling me his preacher had gotten overloaded taking care of his sick wife; and had to resign. He recommended as his replacement a young man that was their youth leader. The gentleman was telling me the young man was green as a gord; he knew verry little about doctrine. He also was telling me how he was going threw the bible with him and showing him some things, but he just wasen't geting the whole doctrine thing. Then he said " funny thing is we have been growing by leaps and bounds we are busting at the seams" I love to see God at work

I've been noticing / thinking about this whole relashinsip not religion thing that seams to be caching fire. Is it new ?am I just noticing it? Is it just local ?

[WRideout]

A former pastor of mine once said, "Be careful of the heresy that you choose." There was a time when German Anabaptists were being burned at the stake simply for refusing to agree that infant baptism was the only official way to do it. Doctrine can and has lead us down some very wrong roads. Having said that I believe that what we are seeing now is a worldwide hunger for true relationship. People will let you down, but God will never let you down.

Wayne

[Bzcraig]

If you are talking about a relationship with the Living God, yup, it's always been around. Going back to Genesis we see that is what God desired from the beginning, and we also read how that relationship was broken. Fast forward to Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary and we have for all time now been restored to right relationship with God the Father. My one word definition of the Bible is relationship.

[Pine Baron]

Well, rl, from my perspective this is nothing new. It just ebbs and flows with the times and the culture. I believe we are experiencing another awakening and of course God is not doctrine, that's from man. IMHO.

[Ickisrulz]

I am wondering how a pastor came into his position without having a good handle on doctrine. I am guessing he is untrained? This is so strange.

When I was a youth I attended a confirmation class in the United Methodist Church that went through the basic biblical doctrines.

When I attended college at Southwestern Assemblies of God University one of the very first classes was a basic doctrine class from a Pentecostal perspective.

I think it is all well and good for churches to ease restrictions on ordination for those who seek pastoral positions. But these individuals should know what they are talking about and should be serious students of the Bible. Otherwise they are going to say all kinds of silly things from the pulpit. Normally they just end up repeating what they have heard for years from other pastors without verifying or understanding it.

[EMC45]

Relationship is life- Religion is death.

[Blackwater]

Wow! Some great commentary to RL's post here!

To my mind, this is really one of those "unanswerable questions," at least to a definitive extent. Relationships of Christians among themselves and with each individual and his/her Creator are two separate and distinct things. And "doctrine" is yet a 3rd separate issue. But ALL of them depend on whether they concur with and comply with the finest direction we'll ever have - the Bible and our own good consciences. If there's anyone here who KNOWS it all, please come forward and instruct the rest of us! I don't. And I think that none of us really does. We are all "seekers," I believe, who simply are complying with Christ's instruction to "study to show thyself approved." In the end, I don't think it's all that important what our conclusions are, as long as we're diligently putting a real understanding of God's Word first, and not simply seeking what we may oftentimes WANT to find. Our wants and desires are VERY subtle, and sometimes "flavor" our reading and interpretation more than they should. And our desire for THE definitive answer to our questions, sometimes, I think, lead us to become more "convinced" than we rightly probably should be about some of the "answers" we find. But it's our human failings that are what we're really fighting, when we read and consider the scriptures. Not one of us can go into that search fully and completely devoid of our human proclivities. But we can TRY very hard and very diligently to do so. That's probably the best we're really capable of, at least in my view, based on all that I've seen here in this realm.

It's a constant struggle to discern the True Meaning of the scriptures, but we HAVE to decide, and go with our best instincts and what understanding and insights we have from reading the Word. I think that's the best we can really achieve, and I think we're obligated to do our very best in that process. I just wish I'd understood more and earlier than I have. But I'm supremely grateful for the understanding I've gleaned in my time. And if our reading of the Word, doesn't jive with what we're seeing around us, then we haven't really reached a very high level of understanding of the Word. The Word is right. We often err, even when sincere in our searching. Maybe this is simply just to keep us humble? That's all I can make of it. God certainly doens't "play tricks on us," and He certainly intended for us to understand more than we probably do. Our mortal bodies and minds have limitations that God doesn't have. Our best bet is to trust that infinitely greater power and understanding, and just try to glean as much of it as our mortal minds and hearts can absorb. I will always be awed at how HUGE God and his understanding and Love and knowledge really is! And if THAT isn't humbling, nothing in this world could be!

Doctrine is, in a way, a kind of "necessary evil," that can and has been, used to engender many wrongs. It's generally wrong or leads us to wrongs when WE put OUR wills and understanding BEFORE God's. And that's just our defensive nature coming out in an often very unfortunate way. Like I said, we're just fallible, and this is one reason that I've come to regard humility as THE most crucial trait a mature Christian can have. They're always searching, always challenging their own concepts and beliefs, and always trying to learn more and better, and gain deeper insights into the Word, and thus, a better understanding of ourselves, as well as of God. It's a constant struggle and even a battle, but what a glorious end it has! It's that end that must be THE most humbling thing of all!

[WebMonkey]

Doctrine is simply the 'beliefs' taught in/at church.

saying "Jesus is the son of God", is teaching doctrine.

do away with doctrine, you do away with scripture including the Gospel.

Paul, in the NT actually chastises a church for NOT studying/preaching/learning doctrine.
he tells them 'by now, you should be on the meat and off the milk'.

my dad used to sing a song called 'fat little baby'. it told the story of Christians never progressing in their RELATIONSHIP with the Lord by getting off the milk and onto the meat. just content to suck the milk.

this leads to Christians unable to answer questions they may pop up when witnessing. (in deed or speech)

doctrine differs, obviously, between denominations, that's why there are so many of them.

i'm a Christian that believes most closely the Baptist Faith and Message and do not believe the Calvanist doctrine.
as the grandson of a pastor, the son of a pastor and a former pastor myself (motorcycle ministry), being respectful and gracious to everyone outside the church walls was taught to me regularly.

in the motorcycle ministry for example, there would be NO arguments about sign gifts disappearing with the apostles or not because we were not in our respective churches teaching Christians in their maturing faith.

Preach Christ and Him crucified. keeping it simple like others have commented.

once inside the Church in small groups or sunday school, the objective, as pointed out buy Paul, gets more involved.
you need to learn, mature, become equipped in your faith.

so obviously, you need the meat now.
each denomination has interpreted the scriptures, the best they can, and that is what they teach.

i'd never go to anyone and 'pick a fight' about whether the act of baptism is what saves you or simply the first act of obedience.
i will politely stop that same argument in sunday school and teach what my church believes is the correct interpretation.

if you 'include' everyone's 'opinion' INSIDE church you'll return to the milk so no one is offended.
fat little baby
:)

[Boaz]

Many good comments here . I have hung back giving a reply . A church must have a doctrine , it tells you the principles , gives explanation why . Most doctrines actually give reference specifically to scripture and verse . Before I joined the Independent Baptist church I belonged to I requested a copy of their doctrine . I talk to so many people that only have a vague or no understanding of their churches doctrine . I'll cast the first stone ....WHY ! Request a copy of the doctrine . My copy .

http://i.imgur.com/5TwAYWQ.jpg

[Boaz]

Church's MUST have a doctrine , that is not a bad thing in its self . Given to bring an understanding of beliefs and expectations .

[Preacher Jim]

There are many doctrines In the Christian faith. Some man made (church doctrines), Biblical, given by God. Several others

[Boaz]

This is a generalization of 'belief' given the doctrine to help explain .

THE HOLY SCRIPTURES:
The Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the inspired Word of God. The Scriptures are inerrant, infallible and God-breathed, and therefore are the final authority for faith and life. (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20-21; Psalm 12:6,7; Prov. 30:5,6)

II. THE TRINITY:
The Bible teaches that there is one living and true God, an infinite Spirit, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of the heavens and earth. The Bible teaches that there is one Triune God, eternally existing in three persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.(Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; John 14:10,26; Exodus 20:2,3; I Cor. 8:6; Rev. 4:11; I John 5:7).

III. GOD THE FATHER:
The Bible teaches that God the Father is an infinite, personal spirit, perfect in holiness, wisdom, power and love. The Bible teaches that He infallibly foreknows all that shall come to pass, that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men, that He hears and answers prayer, and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ. Luke 10:21,22; Matthew 23:9; John 3:16; 6:27; Romans 1:7; I Timothy 1:1,2; 2:5,6; I Peter 1:3; Revelation 1:6

IV. JESUS CHRIST:
The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ, eternal Son of God, became man, without ceasing to be God, having been begotten of the Holy Ghost in a miraculous manner, born of Mary, a virgin. He is both the Son of God and God the Son. (Gen. 3:15; Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:35; John 1:1-2,4,14; 2 Cor. 5:19-21; Gal. 4:4-5; Phil. 2:5-8)
The Bible teaches that the Lord Jesus Christ accomplished our redemption through His death on the cross and through His precious atoning blood and that he literally rose again on the third day. (Acts 2:18-36; Rom. 3:24-25; I Peter 2:24; Eph. 1:7; I Peter 1:3-5).

V. THE HOLY SPIRIT:
The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, encourage righteousness, to regenerate, to sanctify, and empower all who believe in Jesus Christ. We believe that the Holy Spirit indwells every believer in Christ, and that He is an abiding helper, teacher and guider in the Life of the believer. John 14:16,17,26; 15:26,27; John 16:9-14; Romans 8:9; I Corinthians 3:16; 6:19; Galatians 5:22-26.

VI. SALVATION
The Bible teaches that salvation is the gift of God given to man by grace and received by personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Whose precious blood was shed on Calvary for the forgiveness of our sins (John 1:12; Eph. 1:7; 2:8-10; I Pet. 1:18-19).
The Bible teaches that all the redeemed, once saved, are kept by God's power and are thus secure in Christ forever (John 6:37-40; 10:27-30; Rom. 8:1, 38-39; I Cor. 1:4-8; I Pet. 1:4-5).

VII. THE CHURCH:
The establishment and continuance of local churches is clearly taught and defined in the New Testament Scriptures We believe in the autonomy of the local church free of any external authority or control.
The Bible teaches that there are two ordinances given to the church to administer 1) Baptism 2) The Lord’s Supper. However, neither are sacraments or give any sort of saving grace. They are simply acts of obedience designed to point to Christ’s death and resurrection. (Acts 14:27; 20:17, 28-32; I Tim. 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-11).(Acts 13:1-4; 15:19-31; 20:28; Rom. 16:1, 4; I Cor. 3:9, 16; 5:4-7, 13; I Peter

[Boaz]

I suggest first to examine the doctrine of you church ?

[Boaz]

There are many doctrines In the Christian faith. Some man made (church doctrines), Biblical, given by God. Several others

I totally agree . You must know what you have tied your wagon to .

[Wayne Smith]

Having been raised Baptist, been in or involved in at various times; Episcopal, Evangelical Free, Independent Baptist, Conservative Baptist, and Dutch Reformed, we are now Presbyterian and studying the Westminster Confession. Webmonkey, my profession practically turned me into a Calvinist - I have known many (not one or two) ex drug addicts who became Christians as adults who can point to several times in their lives where God literally saved their lives through miracles and they universally say "He saved me before I even knew who He was!"

It did not take much more to move me from a modified Arminian to a Calvinist - especially after I actually studied Romans and took what Paul says literally.

[rl69]

…2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3For (http://biblehub.com/greek/1063.htm) the time (http://biblehub.com/greek/2540.htm) will come (http://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) when (http://biblehub.com/greek/3753.htm) men will not tolerate (http://biblehub.com/greek/430.htm) sound (http://biblehub.com/greek/5198.htm) doctrine, (http://biblehub.com/greek/1319.htm) but (http://biblehub.com/greek/235.htm) with itching (http://biblehub.com/greek/2833.htm)ears (http://biblehub.com/greek/189.htm) they will gather around (http://biblehub.com/greek/2002.htm) themselves (http://biblehub.com/greek/1438.htm)teachers (http://biblehub.com/greek/1320.htm) to suit (http://biblehub.com/greek/2596.htm) their (http://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm) own (http://biblehub.com/greek/2398.htm) desires. (http://biblehub.com/greek/1939.htm) 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths

The key is knowing what is sound doctrine and was isnt .what the man was referring to is the doctrine man has placed on be believers.

There is more to be said but it will take much more reading then I am able to do right now

[Blackwater]

Great comments here, all around. Doctrine is a many-faceted and crucial element of any church, even though my experience and observation indicates that within all the churches I've been familiar with, many individuals within any church often either don't understand or simply don't agree with certain microcosmic tenets within it. It just seems to be "human nature" for people to have differing views, perhaps because their experience and education varies, and often, because many words have multiple meanings, the subtleties of which are often missed. The subtleties of those meanings is often the reason for many disagreements that arise here on the 'net, that's devoid of inflection and other "non-verbal" modes of communication.

The great universal, I think, even among other religions as well as Christianity, is simply man's efforts over time to perceive and understand that which lies beyond our perception with our 5 core senses. We seem to have long known inately, by some mechanism we don't fully understand, to just innately KNOW there's SOMETHING out there that's far beyond us and our world. And folks all over the world have contrived explanations in an effort to understand and worship and honor this "Great Beyond." Only after Christ's resurrection have things been pretty clearly evident just what the nature and scope of that after-world really is, and even with that, I believe we can only get a small "taste" of what it's really like.

But mankind has, for eons now, been trying to discern more clearly just what lies beyond our finite world. We innately know it's there, but are often confounded and confused about just exactly what it was or how it worked or what our part should be within it. That, I think, is why God sent his Son to die on that old rugged cross in our steads, and bring us the message He wanted us to receive. Truly, God has been VERY patient with us, through time! And VERY gracious and understanding. I will always be in awe of all that He has done and given us! Awe is, I think, the only rational response to it all.