Your favorite old timers and why

[JohnH]

Taking a cue from a conversation in another thread, it goes without saying that we stand on the shoulders of giants, though I'm not sure that would be how they might see themselves. Somewhere between the mid 1990's and just after the Heller decision, handgunning as I've known it took a turn. Very rarely now does one see articles on handgun hunting, or new cartridges developed for hunting or long range shooting. I don't remember the last time I saw an article solely on either of these subjects. Perhaps I was lucky to come along when I did, while Skeeter was still writing, Ross Seyfreid was a regular, Mike Venturino was coming into his own, Bob Milek was still living and writing, Dean Grennell was publishing, Elmer Keith had recently passed but his work was widely referenced, J.D Jones was bringing out something new for Contenders every year it seemed. Now days I go to the range, drag our my Contender and someone will ask me what it is. Then there is a generation before them many of us know at least by name, men like Phil Sharp, Elmer Keith and Ken Waters who shaped not only handgunning as we know it, but shaped cartridge development and ballistics (internal, external and terminal) and shared with us their knowledge and experience and raised us up to a higher level.

I don't want this to come off as some old fart waxing nostalgic and wishing for the old days. Those days are gone and won't return. But every one of those writers and shooters gave me something, even if I can't say directly what it was. I've no doubt that Mike Venturino and Ross Seyfreid influenced my early learning about casting, probably laid the ground work that made me think I could do it too. And when I bought a Navy 36 cap and ball revolver that came with a round ball mould, what do you think the first thing I did was. Bob Milek wrote a short series of articles on beginning reloading/how to reload that shifted my thinking from "I'm not too sure about reloading" to "I'm buying a press". (bought a manual first, at his suggestion no less) One of the best guns/shooting/life books I've ever read is Elmer Keith's "Hell, I Was There"

Certainly the biggest influence was my Dad and the Saturday mornings we would spend shooting the 22 rifle (Springfield Model 120A) I was given for my 12th Christmas when we'd take off the tin and glass trash. All these years later those days are with me.

So, who were the shooters, writers, experimenters who influenced the paths you've taken in your shooting/reloading?

[Alstep]

Townsend Whelen, Julian Hatcher, Crawford Hollidge, L.F Moore, Phil Sharpe to name a few.

[castalott]

Add George Nonte to that list also...

[Thumbcocker]

Elmer Keith and Ross Siefried taught me to love wheel guns

[smoked turkey]

Skeeter Skelton and his "Me and Joe" stories gave me much pleasure. I enjoyed his writing very much.

[Idaho Mule]

Jack O'Conner, Elmer Kieth (opposites), Ken Waters, Vernon Speer, Phil Sharps, not so sure this can end. I enjoy reading and learning. There are also many, many VERY experienced and knowledgeable people on this board and I have learned a great deal here. JW

[Dryball]

Wayyy before my time but I still refer to his work...Harry Pope

[Rainier]

So, who were the shooters, writers, experimenters who influenced the paths you've taken in your shooting/reloading?


Well, funny you should ask… Being on the tail end of the “boomer” generation I didn’t read the likes of Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton and Paco Kelly until recently (last decade or so). I have enjoyed the writings of Col. Cooper, Richard Mack and Massad Ayoob through the years.


My personal greatest influence was my Grandfather, who taught me to shoot and gave me a Remington single shot .22, that his father had given him. I was 12 years old at the time he gifted it to me and I still have it in my safe today. Being a U.S. Marine, my Grandfather expected me to make my one shot “count” so... lots of rabbits and tree rats (squirrels) ended up in the slow cooker.


Not exactly sure this is the answer the OP was thinking bout when he posed the question but… the good old boy from a tiny burg in North Carolina who married a sweet gal from Alabama was not only my Grandfather but, by far, my personal most influential shooting old timer.

[slide]

Bill Jordan, got to meet him and he autographed a copy of his book for me. Really nice guy!

[smokeywolf]

Having almost literally cut my teeth on Winchesters, George Madis stands out as one who impressed me when I was young. Two more who immediately come to mind were my father who was a pretty well thought of gunsmith, and one of the first authors I read when trying to educate myself on firearms and ballistics, Dr. F.W. Mann's "The Bullet's Flight, the Ballistics of Small Arms".

[frkelly74]

Well, I liked to read Patrick McManus back when. Very little useful info but once in a while he would have a nugget of wisdom. For instance it is best to take someone elses car fishing or hunting if the destination is remote and the going rugged. Or never try to get your deer home on a bicycle unless you are sure it's dead, Or in a car for that matter either. Oconnor was interesting to me as I fancied myself a rifleman.

[Hickory]

Bob Milek convinced me I needed a T/C Contender. He also got me into shooting prairie dogs. I got my undergraduate degree in the 44 magnum from Elmer Keith. And Skeeter turned me on to the 44 special and taught me that you don't need a magnum for everyday shooting.
A lot of the great writers/shooter are gone, but there are still some good ones around, but not many.

[clum553946]

Was a big Skeeter Skelton & Bill Jordan fan growing up!


Skeeter Skelton and his "Me and Joe" stories gave me much pleasure. I enjoyed his writing very much.

[square butte]

All of the above - especially Ken Waters, Elmer and Skeeter. On a little bit of a different note - An outdoor humorist that I really enjoyed as a kid is Corey Ford. He did the "Minutes of the Lower Forty" column in Field and Stream - Along with a few books of his assembled stories of the same name and "Uncle Perk's Jug. They were stories for old guys who are still kids at heart.

[TexasGrunt]

I've got three centerfire revolvers.

S&W 586-3 6"
Ruger Redhawk 7.5"
Colt Officer's Model Special

The more I shoot them the more I love them. The Colt I picked up for a song and a dance. It's single action only, has a trigger job that's the best I've ever seen, and a trigger shoe. It's pretty certain that it was a Bullseye gun at some point. I only shoot light and midrange wadcutters through it. It shoots like a laser.

There's two guys at my range that want it so bad they're drooling. It's not in the best shape finish wise but they don't care. One of these days I'd really like to send it out for a refinish job. I'm sure Turnbull could make it look real pretty.

[Mr Peabody]

Ken Waters, Finn Aagard, Elmer Keith and Al Miller are all favorites for me.

[Shiloh]

Pope, Sharp, Keith, Cooper.

Outdoor Life humorist Patrick McManus. His characters, Rancid Crabtree and Retch Sweeney. "Crazy Eddie" Muldoon and the dog named Strange.

Shiloh

[Iowa Fox]

Mark Hampton is still writing. Super gentleman to spend some time with and hope to shoot with him again at the MOA in June.

http://gunsmagazine.com/no-shot-too-far/

I miss the old timers and sadly we have no one replacing them. Actually I think it's reflective of where the whole world seems to have gone.

[Kraschenbirn]

'Bout the only two names on my bookshelves that haven't appeared here are Theodore Roosevelt and Robert Ruark, both of whom, I feel, had considerable influence on my reading habits. Still have copies of Ruark's "Something of Value" and "Use Enough Gun" on the same shelf with the Hemingway, Roosevelt, Keith, Cooper, and Jordan.

Bill

[45-70 Chevroner]

Bob Milek was my favorite, and I wish I still had my 14" 35 Remington TC I bought because of him. Cooper was a great writer but he was a "Snob" and very single minded. I do remember all those great guys you mentioned. I'm not into Auto pistols except for my Ruger Mark II. There is nothing wrong with them it's just that I prefer Revolvers.

[fecmech]

Still have copies of Ruark's "Something of Value"
I got started on Ruark in Field&Stream I believe with "The Old Man and the Boy" series. I have that book and have read it many times over. What a fantastic way for a boy to grow up!

[Nueces]

I would add Harvey Donaldson for his work on cast bullet handloading. Also Frank De Haas and Paul Matthews. And Dean Grennell.

[Kraschenbirn]

I got started on Ruark in Field&Stream I believe with "The Old Man and the Boy" series. I have that book and have read it many times over. What a fantastic way for a boy to grow up!

Also have "The Old Man and the Boy" hardback collection of his Field & Stream stories. Didn't discover those until after I'd read "Something of Value" and started searching for more of his work.

Bill

[rmark]

Ned Roberts, Gerald Kelver

[JRLesan]

Jim Carmichael

[sawinredneck]

I'm young in this crowd, I grew up with "Coopers corner" and articles by Massod Ayyob (SP?). I agree with Cooper being snobbish and very particular about his "wants". But no one beat the "holier than thou" drum as much as Massod!

[flint45]

Keith, Cooper , Grennell, Skeeter and many more.I read tons of stuff when I was a kid, still do.I remember getting rid of 5 stacks 4 foot high of gun mags moved them 3 different times could'nt do it the fourth time.Never cared much for Askins though, but they were all characters most of us are to just runs in the family.

[Tom W.]

It's strange, but about two months ago I sent an email to Guns & Ammo and asked why there were no hunting articles where people were using revolvers. I specifically said revolvers, probably more than three times. I mentioned that there were many articles about people shooting gnats at 1k yards, black rifles on most pages, but try to find one about a hunting revolver. They told me that in a sister publication there was an article involving a hunt with a large caliber pistol, but that was about it. All I could do is shake my head.

Oh, I like Bob Milick and Ross Seyfried too.

[Murphy]

I wish I had back 10 cents on the dollar on all the gun rags I purchased back in my youth (I'm 63 now). Many influenced me, but none more than Skeeter Skelton hands down. Reading the writings of Skeeter or Bill Jordan were akin to reading a letter from someone you actually felt like you knew, few writers can do that.

Murphy

[oldblinddog]

I've read them all. Liked all of them (but not Cooper) at one time. Opinions change with age and experience. Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton and Finn Aagard are the ones I still count as worthy of reading.

[Hickory]

Cooper was a great writer but he was a "Snob".

Snobs are a lot like mustard.
It is good when applied on the right food at the right time, but not on all food all the time.

[bisleyfan41]

Elmer Keith, "Sixguns" and "Hell, I Was There" in particular.
All of Skeeter's articles.

And not really old timers, but...
John Taffin and Jim Wilson stuff.
Brian Pearce nowadays also.
And Dick Thompson's adventures he posts online.

[Taterhead]

Ken Waters writing connects with me. Flipping through Pet Loads is always a good read, even about cartridges that I have no connection to.

Veral Smith's book has been very useful to this new caster.

[rockshooter]

Lucian Carey's stories about the machinist/gunsmith/shooter JM Pyne. I have all the stories in a collection by Guy Lautard.
Loren

[Tom W.]

Do any of you "older guys" remember anything about a sequential vortex?

[JohnH]

Do any of you "older guys" remember anything about a sequential vortex? Once upon a time there was an idea that the pressure curve could be controlled by loading two or three different burn rates of powder, the idea being to use a fast powder first then progressively slower, the slower powders igniting later in the burn would extend the pressure curve and yeild higher velocities. Dick Casull used the concept, a triple powder charge in developing the 454 Casull. Pressure testing with piezo electric transducers showed the idea to be bunk, the powder charge did not ignite sequentially. This method should not be confused with duplesing which is a different application of a similar concept where a small charge of a fast er powder is used as a primer charge for larger charges of a very slow powder. Elmer Keith and a couple other fellows (I don't recall their names, the 338 OKH is their namesake) experimented with a variation using a cartridge case with a tube centered in the cartridge to carry the primer ignition to the front of the powder charge (the concept is used is/was used in cannon cases). Their experiments came to nothing as well.

[44deerslayer]

Ed mcgivern fast and fancy revolver shooting

[S.B.]

Elmer Keith I grew up with him(shooting wise).
Steve

[woodbutcher]

:D Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Lord,do those names bring back a bunch of great memories.George Nonte,now that does bring back memories of when my Mom first saw his picture.He and his fancy Snivley Whiplash moustache.She went googoo over that.Dad about laughed himself silly,and when asked whats up,he said it reminded him of a Sgt he had during WW1.Thanks for this thread,great stuff.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[xringshutr]

I would add Harvey Donaldson for his work on cast bullet handloading. Also Frank De Haas and Paul Matthews. And Dean Grennell.

Harvey D would have been one of my first choices. The book with his letters to Handloader "Yours Truly by HD" done by Wolfe publishing is just excellent. I sometimes grab it off the bookshelf just to peruse again. If you haven't read it, find a copy. It won't disappoint.

[Bazoo]

I started by having moms boyfriend shoot a 22 with me occasionally, then got a bb gun for christmas, round age 13. I dont recall shooting more than a dozen times... but it was something I looked forward to each time. He died after a couple years, and Mom wouldnt let me have a gun of my own. When I turned 18, i started buying rifles, and trading around. Got into handguns sometime, and started reading what I could get ahold of bout guns. I really aint read a whole lot of the old stuff. I fell in love with the older cartridges, and older guns. I like very few of the ones... but some. Im 33, reload, cast, and look at old guns when I got to gunshops. Something special about keeping it alive I think.

I think the most influential i've read so far is Cartridges of the world 4 and 5, by Frank C Barnes. He's funny, and loved what he wrote about. I especially liked when he wrote about the 32 special, when It would get a worn bore "you couldnt hit a flock of barns with it". I laughed pretty hard over that one.

[marlin39a]

Jeff Cooper. Lived here in Paulden, and founded Gunsite. Met him and his wife, Janelle. I miss his writings from the old Guns & Ammo magazine.

[Chili]

At one time I had about 10 or gun magazine subscriptions. Overtime as the good writes mentioned above passed away or retired I noticed these magazines had prostituted themselves to pimps of the gun industry. Gone are the informative articles, technical write-ups and down right funny stories. I think the decline in the quality is because of the internet, aging authors, and let's face it firearms technology is almost developed to the point that there is very little to develop when it comes to cartridges and firearms.

[Tom W.]

Once upon a time there was an idea that the pressure curve could be controlled by loading two or three different burn rates of powder, the idea being to use a fast powder first then progressively slower, the slower powders igniting later in the burn would extend the pressure curve and yeild higher velocities. Dick Casull used the concept, a triple powder charge in developing the 454 Casull. Pressure testing with piezo electric transducers showed the idea to be bunk, the powder charge did not ignite sequentially. This method should not be confused with duplesing which is a different application of a similar concept where a small charge of a fast er powder is used as a primer charge for larger charges of a very slow powder. Elmer Keith and a couple other fellows (I don't recall their names, the 338 OKH is their namesake) experimented with a variation using a cartridge case with a tube centered in the cartridge to carry the primer ignition to the front of the powder charge (the concept is used is/was used in cannon cases). Their experiments came to nothing as well.
That's not what Pat McManus wrote about.......

[Digital Dan]

Patton comes to mind.

[BeeMan]

There are a lot of familiar names mentioned above. My earlier influences, in no particular order include: Skeeter Skelton, Bob Milek, Jack O'Connor, Elgin Gates, David Bradshaw, Sam Fadala, Jeff Cooper, Finn Aagaard, Ken Howell, and more recently, John Barsness.

Edit to add: Ross Seyfried, JD Jones, Dean Grennell, and Bob Brister.

[halvey]

I always enjoyed reading Jeff Cooper, even though I disagreed with him a lot.

[Nueces]

Harvey D would have been one of my first choices. The book with his letters to Handloader "Yours Truly by HD" done by Wolfe publishing is just excellent. I sometimes grab it off the bookshelf just to peruse again. If you haven't read it, find a copy. It won't disappoint.

I came to know HD through his back page 'letters' in Handloader, so I bought the Wolfe book when it was published. He knew about sizing large, which knowledge rusted through during the latter 20th century, when few writers were as grounded in experimental experience as was Donaldson. I recall the writer's revolt that induced the mould makers to reduce the as cast sizes of their designs to better match jacketed diameters. We are fortunate that this madness was overcome by modern CBers more like the old ones.

This site is one of the conservators of really good CB practice.

[Texas by God]

Skeeter, John Wooters, John Lachuk, Bill Jordan, P.O.Ackley, Finn Aagard to name a few. IMO Kieth,Askins, O'Conner & Cooper were a tad egotistical for me but I read them anyway.
Best, Thomas.

[texasnative46]

To All,

Inasmuch as my boyhood wasn't very happy (after my beloved grandfather suddenly died & then my father early became an invalid & passed away), I spent a great deal of time reading Robert Ruark. = I spent many an hour wishing that I was HIM and reading his books until some of them literally fell apart.
(I've visited Southport & "The Old Man's house" numerous times & have tried W/O success to buy the house several times. - I've also tried to get the town to celebrate a ROBERT RUARK DAY, W/O success, as he was NOT remembered fondly there.)

yours, tex

[Tom W.]

http://mcmanusindex.com

[Shiloh]

'Bout the only two names on my bookshelves that haven't appeared here are Theodore Roosevelt and Robert Ruark, both of whom, I feel, had considerable influence on my reading habits. Still have copies of Ruark's "Something of Value" and "Use Enough Gun" on the same shelf with the Hemingway, Roosevelt, Keith, Cooper, and Jordan.

Bill

I had a first edition hardback of "Use Enough Gun" from a library give away.
Loaned it and it is gone forever. Mistake.

Shiloh

[Brad Cayton]

I grew up on a farm using rifles and shotguns but dad would never let us have a handgun as he considered them dangerous. I left home, and picked up my first handgun. I subscribed to Shooting Times around 1980. Skeeter, Bob Milek and Bill Jordan handgun articles kept me fired up. I found an old hardback copy of Kieth's Sixguns that had been left in a house I rented and there was no looking back then. Read Bob Milek's handgun hunting stuff and had to have a Contender in 30 Herrett and another barrel in 223. Skeeter and Mike Venturo both played a big part in me casting and shooting lead.
I wish I could remember the whole story correctly but remember an article where someone was interviewing Skeeter. He was asked to name one time a handgun had saved his life. Of course the fellow doing the interview was expecting to hear one of his border patrol or law officer stories. Skeeter, being Skeeter, told him of a earlier time, home from over seas and tight on money, that he sold a SA Colt for $5. Said if he hadn't had that Colt he would have starved to death;)

[texasnative46]

To All,

Btw, my nearly life-long "fixation" on big-game hunting started with HORN OF THE HUNTER by Robert Ruark.

yours, tex

[LeadPoisonTX]

This has become an A-List of Top Authors. My personal favorites and the ones who have influenced me the most are: Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, Elmer Keith, Bob Hagel, Ed McGivern, Ken Waters. Unfortunately, I only have one favorite contemporary author, and that is Brian Pearce who will in time be recognized as worthy of joining the ranks of the classic authors of yesterday.

[JohnH]

Elmer Keith, "Sixguns" and "Hell, I Was There" in particular.
All of Skeeter's articles.

And not really old timers, but...
John Taffin and Jim Wilson stuff.
Brian Pearce nowadays also.
And Dick Thompson's adventures he posts online.

His style kind of puts me off and for the most part rifles aren't my thing, but I do enjoy his articles on handguns immensely. He is well written and widely experienced. The man has prolly forgotten more than I'll ever know. Handloader/Rifle's current staff is likely the most talented and experienced of the current crop. We would be amiss not to include them as they have made very solid contributions in the shooting/handloading world and there is among us a generation that will consider them to be their "old timers" in the same way some of us look at the likes of Ross Seyfreid, Jack O'Conner or Elmer Keith. John Barsness stands out to me from his sensible approach to game rifles and ballistics. Although I had been seeing it on my own for some time before he wrote it, an article he wrote titled something like "Too Much Gun or How Much Velocity?" stands out to me. The jist of the article of course is that most hunters use too much gun for the game and conditions. Hunting with cast boolits taught me a lot about how little gun is actually needed. These men bring and have brought to the table a body of experience that most of us will never have, and the ready remembrance's here of them speaks to their positive influences on their audience. So cheers to the fathers, grandfathers, uncles and writers who have influenced us and made the pursuit of our hobby more enjoyable.

[izzyjoe]

I'm from the younger generation, being 42 I've not read any of the articles, or stories from the past writers. I've heard the names like Sketter, O'connor, and Keith sitting around the camp fires at deer camps as a teen with my dad. I would love to go back and read some of the old books, but I wouldn't know where to look for them, and at the time I don't have the extra coin. Of the current writers my favorites are Mike Venturino, John Barness, and Brian Pearce. I've learned a lot from this site more than anyplace, I never had anybody who taught me reloading or casting, I just jumped right into it head first, my wife thought that I was crazy, and still does for that matter. Every time we go anywhere, if I have time I'm rummaging through old gun stores, looking for molds, lead, powder, and other gun stuff. My Grandpa let me shoot his 22 when I was younger, but my dad never did take shooting, he never had the time, and he had only taken me deerhunting a few times, now my Grandpa was the hunter of the family when he was young, of course around the time of the Deppression you had to hunt to survive, I loved his stories of hunting as a young man, some where kinda rough, but they had to do what they to do to live. I just wish I could have hunted with him, but his health had failed him before I come about. He's still with me, but I do miss him!

[waarp8nt]

I'm in my mid 40's too. So, I wasn't there for much, if any of the older timers 1st hand accounts.

I remember reading some of the articles and stories of the old timers in my Dad, Uncles and Older Brother's magazines. It wasn't until taking some Night Classes as a young adult that I had the library order a P.O. Ackley book. I now own several books from P.O. Ackley, Jack O'Conner, Elmer Keith, George Nonte, Sam Fadala, among other Gunsmithing, Reloading, Casting and Shooting books from various authors.

I like the writing style of Boyd Mace from Precision Shooting.

While it may not be in the spirit of the thread as he is not a writer, there have been books written about him. I must say that Hands down...My all time favorite "gun person" is Carlos Hathcock. His service and sacrifice to the country was outstanding.

[lightman]

Lucian Carey's stories about the machinist/gunsmith/shooter JM Pyne. I have all the stories in a collection by Guy Lautard.
Loren

I enjoyed those stories myself. I guess I liked and respected about all of the old timers. But there were too many good ones to really pick a favorite. I guess my favorites were Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan and John Wooters. If I'm searching for a bullet mold I will always choose a "Keith" type, if possible. I met Bill Jordan at the Tulsa Gun Show several years ago. I always enjoyed reading and learning about reloading with John Wooters. Miss all of those guys!

[jhrosier]

I always enjoyed Elmer Keith's writing.
A few years ago when I bought a 1903A3 Springfield, I got lucky and found one with his stamp from the time that he inspected rifles at Ogden for the army.

Jack

[JohnH]

I always enjoyed Elmer Keith's writing.
A few years ago when I bought a 1903A3 Springfield, I got lucky and found one with his stamp from the time that he inspected rifles at Ogden for the army.

Jack
He shot every one of the rifles that bear his stamp. Interesting story about his time there in "Hell, I Was There"

[MT Gianni]

My favorite Old Timers are the three blade Stockmans and the two bladed Trapper. Uncle Henry's were good but a little more money for the warranty.

[Snow ninja]

Learned the most from Ron Terrell, he was on staff at G&A in the 70's. Still writes some freelance here and there. He taught me more about shooting and the outdoors than any other person. Of course, I'm fortunate enough to just call him Grandpa...

[waksupi]

Felix......

[sundog]

What Ric said...

[dondiego]

Felix definitely knew his shooting.

[JohnH]

My favorite Old Timers are the three blade Stockmans and the two bladed Trapper. Uncle Henry's were good but a little more money for the warranty.:groner: But it did make me smile ;)

[protoolman]

Earl Narimores reloading books were next best to Phil Sharpes. Skeeter was always my favorite.

[robg]

Sam fadal ,Jeff cooper