Convert Steyr m95 to .458 BP

[artu44]

I know it's an insane idea but I'd like to shoot some black powder without the mess of muzzleloading. I recently acquired an M95 in 8x56r and looking at the case I noticed it could be shortened to a couple inches and possibly expanded to .458. Then I came to the idea of an ultra cheap project for a single shot black powder straight pull rifle. My favorite gunsmith has the license to build custom rifles so he can find a M95 receiver complete with trigger and an used octagon .45 barrel from a muzzleloader. I'll make the stock (I'm quite proficient in wood working) and with the bolt of my hungarian I'll be finally on the market. The only problem I see is in cases cause I dont want to alter my bolt. How much I have to shorten it to avoid neck cracks?

[Brasso]

You can reform 7.62X54R to 8X56R and they are 2mm shorter. They both have the correct rim size. I can't see why you couldn't fireform them to a straight case.

[Good Cheer]

Would an increase in barrel outside diameter down its length towards the muzzle be a difficulty?
At present I am back to considering a similar project changing from 6.5 to .41 mag; barrel wall thicknesses and changes to exterior hardware near the muzzle got me head scratching.

[artu44]

Would an increase in barrel outside diameter down its length towards the muzzle be a difficulty?
At present I am back to considering a similar project changing from 6.5 to .41 mag; barrel wall thicknesses and changes to exterior hardware near the muzzle got me head scratching.

It's not a difficulty, simply I want to take a .45 octagon barrel from some used muzzleloader, chamber it for some .458 custom round made by forming the 8x56r case and screw it on the M95 receiver.

[artu44]

I have already a lot of new 8x56r brasses from Partizan and I'd like to make a sort of rimmed .45 black powder round starting from these cases. I'm afraid neck will split during reforming.

[Dan Cash]

I think you have defined the project well in your opening statement. While the 95 Styer is one of my favorites, it is what it is and to me, is surely not a candidate for what you propose. As you are in Europe, it would seem likely that you could find a number of better actions on which to base your single shot project. Vetterli, Kropatcheck, Mauser, Martini are a few of which come to mind.

A major point to consider is that the 95's extractor is a rare find for a replacement part. I do not think that it will tolerate being forced over the rim of single loaded cartridges.

[artu44]

I think you have defined the project well in your opening statement. While the 95 Styer is one of my favorites, it is what it is and to me, is surely not a candidate for what you propose. As you are in Europe, it would seem likely that you could find a number of better actions on which to base your single shot project. Vetterli, Kropatcheck, Mauser, Martini are a few of which come to mind.

A major point to consider is that the 95's extractor is a rare find for a replacement part. I do not think that it will tolerate being forced over the rim of single loaded cartridges.

I see but I'm quite excited with that straight pull action. Of course as single shot I'll make some loading platform just to avoid to stress the extractor. Or maybe I could have it as repeater.
Here we can easily find m95 extractors but they are quite expensive (25$) comparing to 40$ for a receiver.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The extractor is pretty robust, and very likely you would get away with it, but it's a bit rare (and if found, probably expensive) to risk. Most M95s have a little rectangular lip on the edge of the bolt face, which prevents the rim from being inserted behind the extractor hook. For a single-shot I don't see why this shouldn't be removed, leaving you with a slightly more finicky job than dropping the cartridge in and closing the bolt, but bearable.

[artu44]

The extractor is pretty robust, and very likely you would get away with it, but it's a bit rare (and if found, probably expensive) to risk. Most M95s have a little rectangular lip on the edge of the bolt face, which prevents the rim from being inserted behind the extractor hook. For a single-shot I don't see why this shouldn't be removed, leaving you with a slightly more finicky job than dropping the cartridge in and closing the bolt, but bearable.
If you make a loading platform simulating the position of the round in its clip, I think will be no problem with the extractor.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you want a loading platform which makes the rim rise up behind the extractor, why not have the magazine? This one isn't wide enough to make the stock less stable, and makes an excellent palm-rest for a standing shot.

[Buckshot]

..........artu44, my friend I would really suggest that you buy some 45-70 brass and shorten it rather then blowing out the 8x56R brass. The neck going from a .330" ID to about .457" is quite a lot. I have no idea how long they last even if you had 100% success in blowing them out. Your Idea sounds like a fun project regardless :-) I had an 01/FFL Federal Firearms license from 1984 to 2001 and I do believe I was one of the first on my block to have a M95 Straight pull in the later 90's. At that time I could buy them from Century Arms for $39 each + shipping. Original ammo in their 10 round on clips were $1.47 each, and that was the ONLY ammo available for quite some time.

I even went so far as to convert the empties to use 209 Shotshell primers so I could reload them with cast. Moulds were unobtainium, but at the time SAECO offered a special order Loverin type design for a 205gr PBFN of about 220grs for some old Schuetzen type caliber dropping at .335". Things are a lot better now!

http://www.fototime.com/E5F797678DB6438/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/97D8CFD115331D0/standard.jpg

A) I the FNPB mentioned above. B) Is the Lee for the 338. C) is the RCBS design for the 338 and D) Is the original Oldfeller 'Frankenstein' design originally made by Mountain Moulds. The right photo are 8x56's converted to 209 primers. Also about this time I'd found out you could utilize 45-70 cases to make 8x56R brass, with some slight modifications to the rim and re-sizing. I even have a 11" Logan lathe and gave it a try, but thank goodness S&B started making the legitimate cases available. I did make 2 useable cases but it was a thankless task.

http://www.fototime.com/3F99F55C9811736/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CBEAAE5A40D244A/standard.jpg

I also converted a Steyr with a toasted barrel to 30-40 Krag. This was a fairly painless operation as other then a new barrel, the only other mod required was a slight alteration to the clips.

http://www.fototime.com/8D145DDB43DD2B5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F2618D4764522E3/standard.jpg

On the clips all you have to do is to alter the top and bottom lips. The top pair to allow the slimmer 30-40 cases to 'Present' correctly to the chamber. Alterations to the bottom pair was to alter them to take up some of the slack, as the 30-40 Krag is a more slender case then the 8x56R. One thing this alteration proved to me is that the action itself is no slouch, so far as strength goes, and any accuracy issues all have to be in the barrel in these rifles if in "As Issued" condition. This "Straight Pull Krag" is a flat tack driver. The trigger still sucks channel water, but accuracy is superb and you can have 3 empties flying in the air without a lot of practice.

So far as a conversion to a modified 45-70 goes, unless you're just wanting to shoot RB's it'll need a twist of about 20" in order to stabilize a boolit. Might be hard to find if using "A cheap old MLer barrel". I'd think you might be able to create a "3 Shooter" via clip and magazine box alterations. Thing to do is to lay a loaded clip of 8x56R ammo on a table and then lay three 45-70's (with boolits seated) underneath (with their rims correctly oriented ahead of the lower round) so you can see where you need to perform mods to the clip.

Another item you have to deal with so far as feeding goes is that the boolit isn't much smaller then the hole in the end of the barrel. You'll need to make sure that at a certain point in the bolt's forward movement, the rim of the cartridge will have to pop up (so the boolit can tip over the ramp) to feed directly into the chamber and also allow the extractor to capture the rim. Good luck and have a blast! :-) Beats the heck out of sitting in front of the infernal Television having your brain turn to jelly!

...................Buckshot

[Ballistics in Scotland]

When you consider how much time and trouble go into a rifle conversion, there is a lot to be said for using a new barrel blank. It is now nearly impossible to get them out of the US, but here is a barrel maker within the European Community who might be easier to deal with.


http://www.bergararifles.com/es_ES/

My M95 is a sporting version in 7.7x60R, which I think was only ever one of Professor Hebler's military experimentals, and it might be very valuable if it wasn't my own total restoration of a rusty barrelled action. I found the trigger pull well up to military double-pull standards, but you can't do the common trick of using some kind of modification or adjusting screw to take up the first pull. If a ruptured primer were to let gas into the bolt body, it could actually drive the bolt backwards and unlock the helically turned bolt head. It's a a long-odds but high stakes bet. To prevent this a projection on the trigger body goes between two on the bolt, and the first pull disengages it.

[artu44]

Thanks Buckshot for tips. Of course mine is a fun project so cheapness is the rule. For it I've already bought a sound complete ML .45 replica for peanuts and will be mandatory to use the bolt I have on my regular M95. Few days ago I bought also nice price a receiver complete with trigger and sear-ejector assy and a mag assembly. I was so stupid I forgot to order also receiver screws. You know ideas come one after another like waves on the shore and when I saw the magic clip of the Steyr M88 I realized God. My round will be the venerable Werndl 11mm, the granny of the 8x56 Hungarian . Everything will be OK: clip, magazine , bolt, BP barrel twist rate. BTW, in the early seventies I used to assembly twin guns and I still like to mess around with. The one in the pic is my N.1195761195762

[Buckshot]

BTW, in the early seventies I used to assembly twin guns and I still like to mess around with. The one in the pic is my N.1195761195762[/QUOTE]

..............Is the piece in the photo a piece of Naval Artillery?

...............Buckshot

[artu44]

BTW, in the early seventies I used to assembly twin guns and I still like to mess around with. The one in the pic is my N.1195761195762

..............Is the piece in the photo a piece of Naval Artillery?

...............Buckshot[/QUOTE]

Yes, is a twin 40/70 Bofors gun in the exclusive Breda mounting. I had a job in Breda just to start production and this is the very first, a nearly prototype. 730 rounds magazine at 630 rounds per minute in antimissile service. I didn't cast bullets for it (too expensive) nor handload. In the pic, my kingdom for nearly a decade.195805

[artu44]

After terrible headaches I decided the less painful work would have been to adapt 47/70 case head to the bolt face. In minutes with a small late I made a couple of "semirimmed" Starline cases to assembly dummy rounds. Le voilà. It works perfectly.198547198548198549198550

[Texas by God]

I am seeing an old idea of mine come to life. I like it!

[artu44]

The crazy project goes on. Too bad I was able to find an octagon muzzleloader barrel measuring .866", too thin to accept receiver threading, so the "monobloc" barrel was the only answer. After all all double shotgun barrels are made this way. Next step is tin-silver soldering and some contouring. BTW I've read a lot of wrong tips about M95 barrel threading. Actually diameter is 27mm (1.063") 12 tpi Withwort i.e. 55°.200291
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[fivefang]

Artu, I made one up for a reduced rim .45/70 so I can use the charger, but must use a powder which burns VERY clean as chamber fouling can make it difficult to work the action, my 2 cents, Fivefang

[artu44]

Artu, I made one up for a reduced rim .45/70 so I can use the charger, but must use a powder which burns VERY clean as chamber fouling can make it difficult to work the action, my 2 cents, Fivefang

I see, so it's possible I'd shift to a fast burning smokeless in reduced loads. My Quickload program suggest 22grs of Vitavhuori N110 for my 340grs Lee casts at about 10.000 psi. I have this limitation cause original octagon barrel was tested as BP muzzleloader just at 10.000 psi. Maybe it could stand more pressure but this is a fun project so no need for hot loads.

[Dan Cash]

Since you are going to all this trouble, why not convert your rifle to work as a magazine loader as did the Hungarians when they converted these rifles to 7.92 x 57. The one I have sure works slick and no need for clips.

[artu44]

I've already 6 milsurps and I like oddities. Moreover make that dummy elastic clip for the loose ammo top loading is not so simple.

[EDG]

You better drop the muzzle loader barrel idea. The steel in a muzzle loader barrel is usually something really cheap and soft. There would be a good chance of bursting the barrel with a cartridge load. If someone decided to use smokeless powder you might be guaranteeing a burst barrel.

[artu44]

You better drop the muzzle loader barrel idea. The steel in a muzzle loader barrel is usually something really cheap and soft. There would be a good chance of bursting the barrel with a cartridge load. If someone decided to use smokeless powder you might be guaranteeing a burst barrel.

Of course this barrel is made of cheapest iron possible, but the Wesson muzzleloader replica from which I sawed it off was tested at european proof house at 10.000 psi. I dont want hunt buffaloes but beer cans at 55 yards so if I'll take pressure below this figure maybe the whole thing could be safe.

[artu44]

Finally I've finished the project. In place of a custom stock I settled for a well battered one of the period. Being my barrel 18" I had to study something decent for the muzzle area so I choose an argentine mauser muzzle cap. The rear sight is from an old Anschutz 22. After all it was a project on the cheap side. It cycles perfectly up to three rounds so I'll modified a clip consequently. Next week I'll bring it to the range loading 13 grs of green Rex and that Lee cast.225204
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[Texas by God]

Bring it to Texas, we'll take that thing hunting!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[artu44]

Bring it to Texas, we'll take that thing hunting!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

It's a bit too far. My favorite game are beer cans.

[Multigunner]

Reminds me of a 60's experiment by the U S Army. They converted some bolt action rifles to fire a .45 cartridge based on a shortened .458 Magnum case. They used .45/70 500 grain full metal jacket bullets (possibly old stock from an arsenal?) at subsonic velocities to create a very effectively suppressed rifle with terrific muzzle energy compared to the pistol caliber suppressed carbines.

The milspec FMJ bullets were necessary because of the Geneva Convention. They also worked better with an end wipe.

[Earlwb]

I would have just loaded up some black powder 8mm rounds and use it as is? the first 8mm rifles used black powder ammo and then switched to smokeless shortly afterwards. But your conversion is great and looks good too. Nice job. Years ago it was very popular to convert Siamese Mausers to .45-70. Those rifles worked really well for it too.

[Doug Humbarger]

Now that just plain cool. I real enjoy seeing projects like that. Congratulations

[Multigunner]

I would have just loaded up some black powder 8mm rounds and use it as is? the first 8mm rifles used black powder ammo and then switched to smokeless shortly afterwards.

Some German gunmakers used surplus Gew 88 actions to assemble hunting rifles intended for use with lower pressure BP loads. Handloading of most high pressure Smokeless cartridges had prove to be a problem due to wide manufacturing tolerances of propellants of the day.
The BP only rifles used barrels made from much softer steels and were usually marked for use with lead bullets only.

I have an old book here somewhere with the proof markings for these sporting rifles.
IIRC the actions used were those early production actions withdrawn due to safety concerns after a number of accidents.