.475 BFR problem. Need some help

[Markbo]

I have posted this report on single-actions already, but thought I would try here too. A little background: I bought a used BFR in .475 earlier this year. Shot only factory ammo from 320gr(?) up to 380gr ammo. The seller told me that it shot the heavier ammo well, but the lighter ammo not so well. I found it did not shoot the lighter factory ammo very well at all - like 4-5" groups @ 25 yards.

So recently, my friend Axehandle supplied me with some beautiful 475gr bullets:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z110/agb1368/005-7.jpg

I have been waiting to make this trip. With much excitement and much care, I made up 7 different loads with the 24 hard cast 475gr bullets Axe was kind enough to send me.

I laid everything out, got all set up and promptly dropped my ammo box face down... and most of the carefully segregated and marked loads fell helter skelter on the ground. Not all of them - there were still a few stuck in their little holes. I shot 2 shots each of a couple of light loads first: 9.3gr W231 and 9.3 Titegroup. Can't tell much with 2 shot groups, but they were a pleasure to shoot!

Then I thought I would try some of the warmer loads that were still in the box... ones and twos. The rest would be pure guesswork. I moved up to 22.3gr LiL Gun and 19.3gr H110. These were not the hottest loads I had by far, but the same thing happened each time I shot one of these. The gun locked up. It was not bullet jump. The case set back slightly from the cylinder and it would not turn just cocking the hammer. I could force it, but was resistant to do so. I could tell the case was ever so slightly out of the countersink, but they would NOT be driven out with the ejector rod. In fact I bent the head on it try to bang one out. Luckily I had my handy dandy wooden dowel and had to smack the crap out of it with a screwdriver handle to get them out.

You can see visibly about 6mm up from the base the brass is bare - untouched. But above that you can see the case made contact all the way up the case and there are VERY fine longetudinal scratches - it looks almost like it was held and pulled lightly through 1000grit sandpaper. The cases are shinier right at that 6mm spot near the case head where there is more scratching. The harder I had to bang them out, the more visible the scratches and they are not even all the way around on all of them. On a couple I can see them clearly on one side and none on the other side, on other I can see them all the way round. On the light loads, I didn't notice that at all. I measured unfired cases at that point and they are .500".. perfect. The fired ones are .5095". Is that way too much?

Is it possible that the cylinder chambers are too large? Or not round? I don't have a set of precision pin gauges to measure them and I have never had much luck with the adjustable ball type. FWIW the cylinder was perfectly clean... no lead build up at the mouth or anything like that. Visually it looks fine. The loads are definitely not too long. Everything I have shot before now was with 320-380gr loads and nothing like this ever happened.

Any ideas? Also what should I do with these mixed loads? Go ahead and shoot them or pull the bullets and make them over again? Here are all the loads I made
Fired: W231 - 9.3gr, Titegroup - 9.3gr, Lil Gun - 22.3gr
Not fired: Lil Gun - 24.8gr, H110 - 19.3gr & 23.9gr

The unfired loads are not segregated... what is left is all mixed up. This is definitely a first for me, so I'd appreciate any advice. Just an aside, one thing I noticed is that every load shot WAY high with the rear sight bottomed out. If I can get it shooting I am gonna need a taller front sight!

Many thanks
Mark

[44man]

First, ditch the Lil'gun quick. Why are you even fooling with it?
Stay with H110 or 296.
Then you did not say what primers you are using! Do NOT use LR primers. Use LP magnum primers.
I have no load data for that heavy of a boolit either.
The BFR thrives on 400 to 420 gr boolits.

[454PB]

Seems pretty obvious the loads were way over pressure. I'd pull the boolits. Did you use a load recipe from a published source, or are you "winging" it? The next time you have cases sticking, remove the cylinder and then drive them out.

In my .454 Casulls, Lil'Gun is slightly faster burning than H-110 or WW 296.

[Whitworth]

I too would pull the bullets. I haven't even seen any load data on that heavy a bullet for the .475 Linebaugh. They really do thrive in the 400 to 420 grain range.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive got to agree with the others. theres absolutely no need for a bullet heavier then 440 grain in a 475 as a matter of fact i could live with 400s for hunting any animal on earth. you have to keep one thing in mind with the 475 and also the 454. both run at higher pressures then other handgun rounds like the 44mag. So if your trying to look at loading data and making a guess as to what is safe you need to remember that when dealing with pressures like are reached in these guns it just takes a grain of powder to go from a mild load to a wild load. Using very heavy for the caliber bullets adds to the problem because your taking up so much of your case capasity with bullet. buy yourself a lee or rcbs 400 grain mold and stick to the loads recomended in loading manuals. They will take care of anything on earth.

[Whitworth]

ive got to agree with the others. theres absolutely no need for a bullet heavier then 440 grain in a 475 as a matter of fact i could live with 400s for hunting any animal on earth. you have to keep one thing in mind with the 475 and also the 454. both run at higher pressures then other handgun rounds like the 44mag. So if your trying to look at loading data and making a guess as to what is safe you need to remember that when dealing with pressures like are reached in these guns it just takes a grain of powder to go from a mild load to a wild load. Using very heavy for the caliber bullets adds to the problem because your taking up so much of your case capasity with bullet. buy yourself a lee or rcbs 400 grain mold and stick to the loads recomended in loading manuals. They will take care of anything on earth.

Very well said, Lloyd!

[frank505]

I would say your loads are WAY to hot. The reasoning is, there is too much bullet in the case, therefore the available powder capacity is reduced and the result is high pressure. We've been shooting a 405 Keith bullet at 1150 to 1200 for quite a few shots. It is an everyday gun here and even kills buffalo well. Like two last year, the best was a perfect shot by KB and the hit about 250 yards beyond the buffalo in a dead straight line after breaking a shoulder. I wish I had videoed that shot!!! You do not need velocity in the big guns, shot placement and bullet design matter, not much else will do any good if the bullet is not placed where it needs to be or it is a bad design and will not remain stable in air or tissue.
The BFR we worked with was a very accurate revolver, it needed some work to be a good reliable gun. If you can't afford a custom sixgun from either John or Dustin Linbebaugh, then the BFR will do ok, I reccomend the custom route, they are superb and always work when you need them to.

[dubber123]

I would say your loads are WAY to hot. The reasoning is, there is too much bullet in the case, therefore the available powder capacity is reduced and the result is high pressure. We've been shooting a 405 Keith bullet at 1150 to 1200 for quite a few shots. It is an everyday gun here and even kills buffalo well. Like two last year, the best was a perfect shot by KB and the hit about 250 yards beyond the buffalo in a dead straight line after breaking a shoulder. I wish I had videoed that shot!!! You do not need velocity in the big guns, shot placement and bullet design matter, not much else will do any good if the bullet is not placed where it needs to be or it is a bad design and will not remain stable in air or tissue.
The BFR we worked with was a very accurate revolver, it needed some work to be a good reliable gun. If you can't afford a custom sixgun from either John or Dustin Linbebaugh, then the BFR will do ok, I reccomend the custom route, they are superb and always work when you need them to.

I believe these guys are right about the hot loads, a little more boolit in the case can make a big difference when dealing with the high pressures of this round.

HOWEVER!, my brothers BFR in .475 stuck and scratched cases with normal 400 to 440 gr loads until he polished the chambers. The gun has been fine and ejects much better since this modification. His gun is a good reliable shooter now, but apparently missed the fit and finsh table before shipping. A bit of work and all is well. Good luck.:drinks:

[44man]

Nice, thats what I use also in my 45-70 with 4759. Fed 155's.

[Heavy lead]

Cast Preformance 420 and Speer 400 jacketed both do real well in my bfr, I do use Lil' Gun with CCI 350, don't use rifle primers. I cast RCBS 475-400 and use Unique for a light load with a Fed large pistol. Very pleasant chrono's 1050 with 10.5 grains. Can't remember my Lil' Gun loads, I'll look and get back.