Need Suggestions for a Drill Press

[RG1911]

I had been hoping to snare a nice used medium-sized milling machine, but after almost a year searching around here, none have materialized. So my next thought is a new (or used) drill press that, with a good machinist's vise, could do double-duty as a light milling machine. I'm not sure if the presses I see at Sears, Home Depot, etc, are sturdy enough to do the trick.

If someone has a similar setup, I would like to hear your recommendations/lessons learned/etc.

Thank you,
Richard

[Andy]

I'm not an expert on drill presses but I own 3 and will mention some areas for you to consider or read more about to help you make a decision:

- If you can afford a variable speed model (speed change by lever with readout, not moving belts) I would go for it, unless you're drilling the exact same thing all the time it will really pay off. It's amazing how much better everything drills when you are at the correct speed for the material & hole size, and making speed changes easy is the key to actually doing that.
- Lots of people say you don't want to put much side pressure (milling) on a drill press as they are not designed for that and you will wear parts that cause sloppiness much quicker than if used correctly. I have never tested this theory but thought I should mention it.
- If you're looking for a budget model I would steer clear of home depot/sears and go with Grizzly, they have good support/service and usually keep parts for machines long after they retire them from current inventory
- not sure if you use craigslist but there are a couple milling machines listed on there in WY right now and a few drill presses as well

[eck0313]

Using a drill press for "light milling" is not a good idea. It's tried a lot, but is not a good practice. The Jacobs chuck that is used to hold drill bits in drill presses is not designed to take a side load. Additionally, the spindle in drill presses aren't made for a side load either.

My suggestion is to be on the lookout for a cheap mill-drill that uses R8 collets.

[Char-Gar]

I have a 17" Jet floor model drill press and like it very much. It is allot of press for the money. Using one for milling is not a good idea as the bearings won't hold up to the side pressure needed for milling.

[country gent]

A good drill press can do a lot and be very usefull. Abusing it and pushing it past what its meant to do is a different story. I have a X-Y table here for my one drill press. Its used to locate holes and patterns similar ton the way you do it in an end mill. Jost drill presses table locks arnt solid enough to take millings side pressure. The spindle bearings arnt meant for the side pressures of milling or the vibrations. Drill presses use a simple morse taper for chucks and bits. An end millm uses a collet tightened and locked with a drawbar thru the spindle. The vibration and side forces will cause a morse taper to release. You will be better served by using a end mill as a drill press than the other way around. Even the X-Y table dosnt have the gibs or end play for milling accurately.

[DougGuy]

Not really a workable idea, milling with a cross-slide vise on a drill press. If you want a decent drill press, look on Craigslist for a nice used one, estate sales/barn sales often turn up a whole shop full of tools.

[cwheel]

A drill press isn't made to do milling and a end mill that applies a side load to the spindle will almost always release the Jacobs taper on the chuck resulting in a big safety problem. Those tables are for locating holes and not recommended for milling. A cheap small mill from a company like Grizzly will give you much more satisfaction doing both, and doing it safely. The days of finding a good used Bridgeport mill for under $1500 have come to a end, any found now at that price now almost always need lots of work. If you need a drill, buy one, need a mill and a drill, spend a little more and get one of those mill/drill combo units, even if it's a cheap one, and you will be much better off and safer.
Chris

[country gent]

One other plus to the milling machine as a drill press is most Bridgeport style mills have a digital read out and hole patterns can be ran with little layout work.

[gunshot98]

I bought a smaller milling machine from Grizzly and am very happy. Plus side it wasn't expensive. About like a larger drill press. Check them out. It's a table top model.

[smokeywolf]

RG1911, With over 35 years machining experience I can tell you that all the above is good advice. "country gent" also has a very extensive machining background. Side or off-axis loading is likely to be more destructive than creative. Drill chucks are often ruined by side loads and don't hold on to end mills securely. They are specifically designed to hold tools such as drills and reamers that do not have hardened & polished shanks.

[country gent]

The other problem with end mills and drill chucks is that most end mills are double end and drill chucks arnt deep enough to have a solid grip on the center portion. The best drill press bore machine Ive used was a morse jig bore, would drill and bore with a boring head and accurate to .0002 on location and size depending on boring head used. But even it wasn't meant for the side thrust and vibration of end mills. A good Bridgeport with hardened and chromed ways in good shape and a good readout is capable of .0005 with the right operator on most hole patterns.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

For general shop use, DO NOT BY A 12" DRILL PRESS.

I say this for one main reason even if it were not too small for some of my needs. That reason is, even though the bit speed can be varied with a simple belt change, it will NOT do slow enough for many jobs this being especially true as bit size increases.

I made the mistake of buying a 12" Delta and have MANY times had reason to regret that choice!!!!!!

I recently bought a jig system for "machining" and aluminum 80% lower and while the drill press is doing OK for the size bit used for the largest holes in the jig, the "milling" is done is very small steps with a router.

Buying a drill press, buy a floor standing press and only if it has a full range of bit speeds!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Traffer]

I saw plans from an old booklet for making a light duty milling machine from a drill press. It involved running a parallel shaft that was securely anchored at the top and bottom bearings of the shaft. It was a pamphlet on eBay. I couldn't read it. I just saw the cover. With that said. I use my drill press for a makeshift milling machine all the time. HOWEVER.I put very little sideways pressure on the spindle. I do not use mill bits. Instead I use diamond bit cutting wheels for a dremel type of grinder. That rig is very useful. That way I am grinding on the side of the work instead of forcing a bit into it.

[DougGuy]

If you want a decent drill press, look on Craigslist for a nice used one, estate sales/barn sales often turn up a whole shop full of tools.

Google typed in craigslist laramie wy and hit enter, found this one, I'd haggle to $150 and call it a good deal!

https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/tls/6052658276.html

I have had almost the same one for the last 30+yrs, was gifted a 3/4 Jacobs chuck on a MT2 taper and never needed anything more since then. I'd like to have a small mill but hey this post is in reference to a drill press, and my suggestion mimics how I got mine and about the same size and quality and I guess $200 2017 bucks is about the same as $150 1985 bucks so about the same price too!

[oldracer]

Here are my suggestions......Do you have a very sturdy work bench, one that has 4x4 legs and bolted to the wall with lots and lots of lighting? If so then get some storage/drawers/shelves and even a movable smaller bench with storage for chemicals, ETC. If all that is okay then I'd suggest the drill press, a floor model that is heavy and solid. I bought a Harbor Freight 12 speed (I think) that weighs a ton and so far it has lasted 26 years or so. Then get a small sized flat screen TV so you can watch/listen to sports or races or whatever you like while doing boring stuff like inletting an octagon muzzle loader barrel. While all this is going on, look for a 3 in 1 drill/lathe/mill combo setup using Craigslist or ebay. I see you are in WY so things are more spread out than in Southern CA where I live so check surrounding states I guess. I was lucky and found a HF 3 in 1 made in 1998 about 4 years ago from a fellow Schuetzen fellow who passed away and his estate liquidator knew I was looking called me and I got it for $500 which included about $1000 of mills, cutting tools, ETC and a huge heavy table to bolt it to. It had been used for doing work with hardwoods so I pulled all the bearings apart, cleaned them and greased with Mobile 1 racing grease and it really hums along great. The only exciting things I have done is to cut barrel dove tail slots but I practice now and then. Look in your area for estate sales or death notices, that sort of thing.

The previous posts about no side strain on a drill press are spot on, the spindle is not made to handle sideways loads, only axial.

[endwrench]

Just one more negative on using a drill press for milling, it is hell on end mills. I trashed carbide on aluminum with mine before buying a small Grizzly mill. You can do a lot more on a "cheap" mill than an expensive drill.

Sent from my K011 using Tapatalk

[Jeff Michel]

You may look for a used R30 style mill. They are a light weight mill (not a floor model) and it will do anything you cited in your original post. They will run you about double the cost of a good drill press and quite often are provided with basic tooling (vise, R-8 collets, drill chuck). As others have pointed out prior, a drill press is for poking holes in stuff, not milling. You will only have to try a milling cutter held in a drill chuck one time to understand.:shock:

[KCSO]

Never use a drill press for milling!!! The quill won't stand the gaff and the milling cutters will work loose and ruin the work. No Don't you need a mill drill with a collet quill. For light work a Mini will work and Craigs list has used bigger ones for sale.

[RG1911]

Okay! No milling with a drill press!

I expanded my craigs list search into Colorado, as far as Fort Collins, which is 100 miles from Laramie. So far, nothing usable is showing up.

As gunshot98 suggested, I took a look at the mills at Grizzly and came up with two that, by going on a diet of bread-and-water for a few months, I could afford:

This one is $795 before shipping and is designated as a mill/drill. I'm a bit hazy on the meaning of that designation, unless it means that it is intended to do double-duty. The specs say it includes a DRO:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-18-3-4-HP-Mill-Drill/G0781

This one is $665 before shipping, although the designation as a Mini makes me think that something a bit larger would be preferable. The specs do not list a DRO:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Milling-Machine/G8689

I also checked a mill at Harbor Freight, but it was outside the budget and did not include a DRO. A mini mill at Little Machine Shop was only a bit over budget, but it did not list a DRO, either.

Would one of the Grizzly mills be a reasonable purchase, or should I be looking elsewhere?

Many thanks,
Richard

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Personally, I trust Grizzly waaaaaaaaaay more the Harbor Freight.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Moleman-]

I've had this one for about 10 years now. https://www.harborfreight.com/1-1-2-half-horsepower-heavy-duty-milling-drilling-machine-33686.html In those 10 years I've had the set screw on the motor pulley loosen up causing a squeak that was easy enough to fix by just tightening the setscrew again. And the pin that connects the draw bar to the draw bar nut sheared off after about 5 years. Pushed out what was left of the sheared pin and drove in a piece of drill rod, done. It's done a few AR type lowers, and many other parts over the years. Added a power feed, flood coolant and a cheap $10 caliper to the down feed (Z axis). It does weigh around 700#. Here's a pic from two years ago of it milling the flats on an octagon barrel. Wait until there is a 20% off coupon and take it into the store and speak to the manager. Tell him you want to order the mill only if you can use the coupon. Worked for me.

The good, it's got plenty of power, the table is about the largest out there for a bench mill, it has lots of weight to dampen vibrations, R8 spindle.

The bad, it's a bench mill and not a knee Bridgeport type, has a round column, it's an import, HF isn't great on support.

I personally think it's unfair to compare it to a Bridgeport as they are two different classes of machines. The round column hasn't been an issue for me. You will lose your zero if you didn't plan ahead or because of tooling change (drill chuck for example) if you have to raise or lower the head (not the spindle). While it's not ideal and can be a deal breaker for production work to spend a minute to find the zero again it isn't for hobby use. For support, look at the other importers (some will have nicer paint and better hand wheels, switches ect) and find a model that is similar to yours. My enco 9x20 lathe that I got used with issues caused by the prior owner "improving it" has parts from HF, Enco, Grizzly and others in it. They bolt up and fit just fine. Read the manual that comes with it. It's clear reading some of the reviews some people never did and don't know how to adjust the split nuts to remove backlash.

[akajun]

Forget all of the above, if you want a drill press buy a drill press, used American if you can, walker turner, delta, Wilton, powermatic, buffalo. If you want a small mill, buy a small knee mill like a Millrite/Burke or m series Bridgeport.
They really don't take up that much room.

[ulav8r]

Okay! No milling with a drill press!

I expanded my craigs list search into Colorado, as far as Fort Collins, which is 100 miles from Laramie. So far, nothing usable is showing up.

As gunshot98 suggested, I took a look at the mills at Grizzly and came up with two that, by going on a diet of bread-and-water for a few months, I could afford:

This one is $795 before shipping and is designated as a mill/drill. I'm a bit hazy on the meaning of that designation, unless it means that it is intended to do double-duty. The specs say it includes a DRO:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x-18-3-4-HP-Mill-Drill/G0781

This one is $665 before shipping, although the designation as a Mini makes me think that something a bit larger would be preferable. The specs do not list a DRO:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mini-Milling-Machine/G8689

I also checked a mill at Harbor Freight, but it was outside the budget and did not include a DRO. A mini mill at Little Machine Shop was only a bit over budget, but it did not list a DRO, either.

Would one of the Grizzly mills be a reasonable purchase, or should I be looking elsewhere?

Many thanks,
Richard

The digital readout on that mill is for spindle speed only. Not for table movement or spindle travel. Did not specify spindle stroke or maximum spindle to table distance, both important considerations in a drill press or a mill to be used as a drill press. http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2017/main/571?p=568 The G0759 with a 3 axis DRO would be a nice substitute for a drill press and probably a decent small mill.

[RG1911]

The digital readout on that mill is for spindle speed only. Not for table movement or spindle travel. Did not specify spindle stroke or maximum spindle to table distance, both important considerations in a drill press or a mill to be used as a drill press. http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2017/main/571?p=568 The G0759 with a 3 axis DRO would be a nice substitute for a drill press and probably a decent small mill.

The G0759 does look like it would be a fine combination. It is, unfortunately, about $1000 outside the budget. This may be a case of buying a good drill press and saving up to add a mill.

Thank you,
Richard

[ulav8r]

Since the DRO is not an absolute requirement, you could save $600 by getting the mill without it. It can be added later after saving up the funds for it.

[RG1911]

Since the DRO is not an absolute requirement, you could save $600 by getting the mill without it. It can be added later after saving up the funds for it.

Thank you for pointing that out. I had not realized that was possible (being completely new to mills). I obviously need to look up some definitions of terms associated with mills.

Richard

[country gent]

On a new mill the DRO isn't needed nearly as much. When threads and gibs are new and tight taking play out isn't as big an issue. I always thought it was done wrong in most shops putting the DROs on the newest tightest machines instead of the older looser machines that would benefit the most from them. LOL.

[cwheel]

Having a drill press in almost any shop I consider a necessity, but I use it for a drill. Larger work gets moved to my mill. If I had to downsize from my Bridgeport, I'd take a hard look at the Grizzly G0175 and it's $1175. Small in size, gear drive with no belts, and a DRO for work locations. I'm thinking it would do most small gunsmith jobs in that size range and weighing in around 200 lbs. you wouldn't need a forklift to move it. Just like any machine tool, the cost isn't in just the machine, tooling costs come right behind it unless your a machinist that has most of it already. On Grizzly's web site, a working vise is going to run around $200, collet set ( R8 ) will run another $85, clamp kit for $50, and a basic end mill set for another $50. So, for a little over $1500 and shipping, you should be cutting metal. With respect to what Country Gent says above about DRO's above, I have to disagree slightly. After machining parts for a living for 50 years, my position on DRO's is that any machine that has one benefits from it. You turn out much more accurate parts faster on a machine fresh from the crate, or one that was made in the 1930's. DRO sees where a machine moves and wear to a screw or wear in a table dovetail is all taken in to where it puts you. In a commercial machine shop, cost of a DRO is paid very quickly is speed and labor costs. At home it pays for itself in better quality work. But that's just a opinion, everyone has a different one.
Chris

[DCM]

Lots of good advice here. I would not waste time or $ trying to mill on most drill presses, I have tried this with miserable results. I could not keep anything tight enough to make anything run remotely true. :(
I currently own 2 drill presses and use the smaller bench top one only for de-burring rifle brass.

[RG1911]

I truly appreciate the thoughtful suggestions everyone has made. I am beginning to think that Chris (cwheel) has a good point that a drill press is used for drilling, and a mill for milling. For one thing, a drill press would offer more vertical working room.

Fortunately, I have some time to consider specific machines since the new house (with a large work room) won't be finished until the end of July.

Assuming I start with a drill press, I did some searching and found this Grizzly press that had good reviews:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-Speed-Heavy-Duty-Bench-Top-Drill-Press/G7943

Does this seem like a reasonable press?

Thank you,
Richard

[cwheel]

I've had a different brand drill press, but almost exactly the same size for 30 years or so now. For 95% of your home stuff that size works out just fine. Only criticism I have of mine is that the lowest speed on my 15 speed press is 200 rpm. 200 rpm is fine up to about 5/8" in steel and touch and go as you get bigger. Think you will be happy with that Grizzly drill in the end. Pics included with this post. You will see I made a homemade redwood stand for mine, what you can't see in the pic is the large storage drawer in the base. I found that this size on the homemade redwood base to be more stable than the bigger drill with full column. Also a close up of the vise. The vise is a 4" Cardinal speed vise, paid for itself many times over. At the time is was only $80, bet it costs more now. You get a nice drill in place, then time to think about the mill perhaps.
Chris

[RG1911]

Nice setup, and I've never seen a vise like that; it looks very handy. You're right; the price has increased a wee bit from the $80 you paid. $325 is the least I found doing a quick search. I think it would be a (far) future addition.

I'll remember the stand, now that I'll have a sufficiently-spacious workroom. I might consider adding locking wheels in case I needed to move the press for some reason.

Questions:
Were you using the chuck key for a purpose or is that your way of keeping it handy?
And should one use a slower speed the thicker the metal? (Most of my work is wood or thinner metal.) The Grizzly goes down to 140 rpm.

Cheers,
Richard

[cwheel]

I just store the chuck key in the chuck jaws loosely so it doesn't get mixed in with the pile of chuck keys I have. Never store a chuck key in the hole, if you were to start the drill, it will throw the key, could hurt someone. Thickness of the metal being drilled doesn't determine the rpm you turn the drill at. Type of material being drilled ( soft like wood is fast, hard like SS is slow ) and the size of the drill bit. 140 rpm is slower than mine will turn, but even with the 200 minimum on mine, I can carfully do a 1" hole in steel stepping up to that size with smaller drills. When you are drilling a 3/4" hole in steel for example, you will be running on the slowest rpm = 140. When drilling in alum with a 1/8" drill = fastest rpm.
Chris

[No Blue]

I'd expand my search to Denver; not enough peeps out around where you live....there's a nation wide glut of machine tools in the populated areas. The Baby Boomers are selling off their tools and the young punks aren't really interested in buying it.

I was reading a thread on Yesterdays Tractors and the tool junkies said they were having to seriously readjust downward what prices they were offering on old iron. Because they couldn't sell it at the old prices.

Grizzly had to close two showrooms and warehouses in Missouri and Pennsylvania in the last couple of years that had been open for 20+ years. Just not enough business.

I look on CL or Ebay and get sick at what old iron is selling for.

My 12x39 Taiwanese lathe that I paid $2500 in '85 are selling for $1000-$1500. It's in like new condition, fully tooled. New lathes that size are $2500 from Grizzly, but gear drive, not belt, like mine.

Bports that were $4500 for the basic mill, no tooling, 20 years ago; today are less than $2000.

Used tools are out there, just not in Wy....LOL

[cwheel]

I agree with No Blue on the used tool thing. I've had several friends buy nice Cardinal Speed lock vises off ebay in the $50 price range, just got to be patent and hold out for one in good condition. Same could be true for the drill press as well. Lots of us old machinists passing on and it's sad to see our tools go for a penny on the dollar. With most manufacturing jobs now located overseas there isn't the same demand. I have micrometers that cost over $250, I see them selling for $25 in almost new condition on ebay. For a hobby machinist or gunsmith these are the best times I've seen to acquire tooling, fire sale prices.
Chris

[William Yanda]

DRILL PRESS FOSDICK 24" X 36" TABLE, 3 MT, 3 PHASE 12/21 (https://rochester.craigslist.org/tls/6091337094.html) $2000 (ROCHESTER)

[Kawgomoo]

get a mill....they are all the same chinesium at the lower price. PM and Bolton have good deals. But you can snag a J head bridgeport clone for about 1000 bucks anywhere these days.

[No Blue]

get a mill....they are all the same chinesium at the lower price. PM and Bolton have good deals. But you can snag a J head bridgeport clone for about 1000 bucks anywhere these days.

Populous areas; maybe. Out in flyover country; no way.

[indian joe]

A drill press isn't made to do milling and a end mill that applies a side load to the spindle will almost always release the Jacobs taper on the chuck resulting in a big safety problem. Those tables are for locating holes and not recommended for milling. A cheap small mill from a company like Grizzly will give you much more satisfaction doing both, and doing it safely. The days of finding a good used Bridgeport mill for under $1500 have come to a end, any found now at that price now almost always need lots of work. If you need a drill, buy one, need a mill and a drill, spend a little more and get one of those mill/drill combo units, even if it's a cheap one, and you will be much better off and safer.
Chris
Do this!

[ichthyo]

I tried using my cheap HF drill press for a mill. Bad idea.

[Clark]

I got my Jet made in Japan drill press used in the Boeing parking lot for $35 in 1979.

I got a Rockwell floor model from a widow.

I rebuilt my 21-100 Rockwell mill in 2009. I made a drawing of the spindle and calculated tolerance build up.

I am currently of the opinion that one should not rebuild drill presses, but mills are worth the time.

[Hannibal]

Bottom line is, trying to use a drill press for a milling machine is akin to showing up to a gun fight with a knife.

Either buy the correct machine, or accept the fact that you can not do milling machine projects unless and until you can buy one.

I'm in the same boat. So don't feel like the 'Lone Ranger'.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you really want a small Milling machine look around for a Clausing. They are 1/2 HP machines and will take up to 1/2 diameter tooling. These are not heavy duty machines!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are meant for very small parts.

You could make some small gun parts on one.

If you go to a used machine dealer in your area (Google them) you will probably find one as they are really quite common.

Other than that, the next step up the line is a Mill/Drill and then a Bridgeport which weighs 2200 lbs. and is much more of a commitment to own. Mill/Drills are available many places and only require a stand or bench to sit them on.

Make sure it is easy to clean around the tool as all mills make big messes.

Randy

[Clark]

My brother has a Clausing 8520 since 2000.
I gave his neighbor a Rockwell 21-100, after using it from 2003 to 2015.
They are about the same, but the Rockwell takes R-8 tooling, while the Clausing takes #2 Morse taper tooling.
I now have a Bridgeport that at 2000 pounds is more than twice as heavy as either.

[Shiloh]

As stated milling isn't suggested. I have however seen some light milling done on a laminated wood stock that worked out great.
The problem arises when the bearings are abused from the sideways stress and you get a wobble in the shaft.

Shiloh

[Ballistics in Scotland]

What's just one more person among so many saying a bench drill isn't suitable for milling? Besides the limitations of the bearings and the chuck, a drill table often isn't rigid enough when the load isn't straight downwards. Even for demanding drilling on a ¾HP bench drill, I have found it worth having a few different lengths of two by four timber, with wedges, to support the table against vibration.

A compound table can be very useful for drilling accurately located holes, and perhaps even for working wood with router bits. But you can spend a large part of the price of a mini or used mill on a table good enough for metal, and still find the drill letting it down. The cheap ones just add their own problems.

I have a 350W mini-mill of a type which is probably sold under various names in the US. Nothing could be better for sights and mounts, trigger parts, breechplugs, reamers etc. Size permitting, it is even what I go to first for a drilling job. A professional gunsmith needs something be bigger, but for the hobbyist who wants only one machine, preferring that to a bench drill is worth considering.

One other point about a bench drill is that if I was buying another, it wouldn't go on the bench. A pedestal model is easier to clean up around, and second best is a low stand which puts the workpiece close to eye level. I have a twelve-foot bench, and it still gets full up with three-foot jobs.

[egg250]

What is your price range? Grizzly has several, affordable benchtop type milling machines that might suit your needs.

[Red Elk]

FWIW...
I totally agree about not doing milling with a drill press. They are just not made for it, the bearings will not last and you will wish you had purchased the small mill.
I have been using Grizzly for years, and another Chinese Mill Drill. They are fairly decent low budget mills, and if you take your time, realize your slop and take it for granted, keep your tooling sharp, and use a good vise, you can do quite a bit of work with them. They are not a Bridgeport...or other decent machine, by any means, but they can do a lot of lighter work if you watch your slop and don't go to fast or cut too much.
For a hobby machine, they are not bad.
If I could upgrade, I would search for something better, but with the little work I do anymore, it doesn't seem like a great investment now.
re