Tapered Breech Seat Design 33-40

[hawkenhunter50]

Howdy,

Looking for some help/advice for a mold design. I have a Marlin Ballard with a AW Peterson barrel. It came with a shooting kit with a push style breech seater, plugged 32-40 case. It also came with 2 different cast bullets. The design looks to be the same except for slight diameter difference, and 1 is longer. Both are the same diameter the length of the bullet. The shorter bullet measures .330 diameter and is .865 long. The longer bullet is .330 diameter and .985 long. I have not shot either bullet. I have read the Peterson barrels were made for a tapered bullet design. I was thinking about a mold like the Lyman/Ideal 338301 which had 3 .330 front bands and 2 wide .336 rear bands. I slugged the muzzle of the barrel and it is .333. Any help with the mold design would be appreciated. Thanks

[WALLNUTT]

If you can't find a vintage mould to your liking, try Accurate moulds. I just got one Friday and have been casting today. Mine is a tapered 30cal to breach seat for a 30-30 Hiwall. I picked a mould from the catalog but specified diameters to fit my barrel. The diameters came out as close to what I ordered as humanly possible. The bullet is the 31-195B. It weighs 190g in 1-20and. I ordered 3 different diameter bands and got them and the mould casts like a dream.

[hawkenhunter50]

Wallnutt, Accurate molds was exactly where I was looking, thanks for the recommendation. Did they help you decide what diameters to use? I guess that is where I am unsure. Did you just slug your barrel or did you do something else to obtain your diameters? Thanks

[WALLNUTT]

I slugged the barrel to determine diameters, disregarding neck/chamber dimensions since I was going breach seat. I knew what size I wanted the base band and the forward band. I then made the bands in between at about the ratio of the sizes of the original in the catalog as it was a tapered design but bigger. I did inform Accurate of the intended use in the notes. Have you tried bullets from the moulds you have? Oops, I reread your post and saw that you have not tried the moulds you have.

[hawkenhunter50]

For your forward band, did you have them made groove diameter or smaller? And for base band how much larger than groove diameter did you go? I am thinking forward band of groove diameter (.333) tapered to rear band of .335. Not sure if this will be sufficient or if I should have the forward tapered even smaller than groove diameter. It is just a push seater, no mechanical advantage. Have never breech seated before so just trying to get suggestions. Thx again

[WALLNUTT]

Nose and forward band is at bore diameter which is .300 and base band at .309+ with a couple bands in between at.302 and .305. As you can see, my bullet has several bands. Some use tapered bore riding bullets but I didn't have much success with that style. I'm pretty new at this myself and certainly no expert. My barrel runs about .308- in the grooves. My micrometer is an old one and only goes to .000. Most of my limited experience is with a 38-55. My Hiwall started life as a takedown so I have 2 barrels I can swap. If you use groove diam on the nose I believe you will have a hard time with a push seater. I have a both push and lever style and much prefer the lever. Parallel groove diam bullets can be tough even with a lever style.I would first try the moulds you have and see how it goes as they may have been made specifically for your rifle. I'll be off to the range today to try this new bullet.

[WALLNUTT]

The new Accurate bullet has worked out as hoped for. It seats easily and shoots good. I'm just under 1" on the first outing. I should be able to reduce that with refinement. Hawkenhunter, I've done some reading and it seems your sub groove diam bullets were used over blackpowder back in the day.

[hawkenhunter50]

Glad to hear she shoots good. Which did you choose, steel, brass, or the aluminum mold? I submitted a design to Accurate the other day. Havent heard anything yet. Did he email you after you sent him your design? I am intending to shoot mine with black powder, heard lots of stories about the weak Ballard actions so dont want to take any chances. I didnt get a mold with my kit, only 2 different bags of bullets, unfortunately.

[WALLNUTT]

I got aluminum. I have a couple of brass moulds and they do cast well but are quite heavy and bullets from the aluminum are just as good. Iron are great but again I have no problems with aluminum. I had no correspondence after ordering. At the time he stated there was a 4 week lead time but the order arrived in 2 weeks. The fellow I got my Winchester from has some Ballards, Pope and Schoyen and uses smokeless schuetzen loads. It wouldn't do much good to find a load with your bullets and not be able to duplicate them down the road. If you decide you need a mechanical seater ,check out the ASSRA site. There is a fellow named Dave Bennet who makes a fine seater at a reasonable cost.

[hawkenhunter50]

well got a mold ordered from accurate. 2 cavity with 2 designs. 1 design is a copy of the bullet that came with the gun, figured be as good a place to start as any. it is 33-205H in the catalog and is based on a drawing i sent him with measurements from my bullet. 2nd design is 34-220B which was already catalouged, just changed the diameters to suit my barrel. hopefully at least 1 of the 2 designs prove to be useful. thx for the help/ideas here.

[WALLNUTT]

Either/both of those bullets should work OK. Did you order either bullet tapered and with a groove diameter base band. I've gotten mine down to 5/8" mostly concentrating better but the bullets do get better as the mould breaks in. Next I'm going to try 1-25 alloy

[hawkenhunter50]

The 34-220B I did tapered. .335+ base to .330-. The 33-205H is more like the Hudson style, 1 base band at .335+ & the other 6 at .331-. I was going to start with 40:1 since will be using BP, let me know which works better for you after you try the 25:1 over the 20:1 you have used. I have some 20:1 made up for some 44's so could try that also. 5/8" I'd be thrilled with, hope I am as lucky. Should be a shooter, barrel is 1.25 across the flats, its a monster.

[WALLNUTT]

It should be a shooter. I have 0 experience with BP but may try someday as many have told me the 38-55 would shoot best with BP. The 33-205H may be a bear with a push seater. Looks like weather may prevent any shooting this week. The 38-55 is a heavy Badger octagon with a 15" twist and will handle bullets well over 300g. The 30-30 is a lighter but still pretty heavy Kreiger with a 10" twist.