Lee precision pacesetter dies or a higher priced 2 piece set

[drjjpdc]

I am hoping to get some kind of clear answer here. I have a few Cowboy RCBS die sets and I like how they work on my older guns. Well now I go out and buy a modern cart, the Ruger #1 in 7mm-08. Of course there are no 3 piece dies for it.

So do I just save a few bucks and buy one of those Lee Precision Pacesetter units with the extra die included for around $30.00 or so? Or do I buy another RCBS 2 piece set and add another die to it? Also as far as lead bullets go are the seater dies or the expander body/die the same? I know they are used for wider lead bullets, but after reading descriptions 3 or more times my eyes are glazing over!

:killingpc

[EDG]

Lee does not make a decent expander die in any form.

If you want a good expander die you will need to buy a Lyman M die or other equivalent and add it to the standard die set you chose.

[troyboy]

Are you planning on loading led or using jacketed? Lee dies are as good as any for jacketed. If you are loading led then using the additional Lyman M die EDG suggested is another option.

[gwpercle]

Add a Lyman M-die to any basic 2 die set you like and you will be set !
That's the easiest way to go. The M-die is made to properly expand and flair a case for cast boolits, I'm not sure if you can buy a set that contains it , even Lyman does not sell a set containing it in a 3 die set .
Three die sets usually have the standard 2 dies and a neck sizing die.
So the best advice is a 2 die set +Lyman M-Die . In 7mm-08 the Lyman 2 die set is #7455646 and the 7mm M-Die is # 7349011.
Before buying a 3 or 4 die set carefully read what dies you are getting and make sure what's in the set are the dies you want.
Gary

[drjjpdc]

Thanks guys. That was the point of my question. I shoot the hyphenated cartridges and the CB ones (.45 LC, .357 Mag., etc.) and all of them I shoot cast. The 7mm-08 was my first where I was thinking of shooting both.

If it didn't affect the gun barrel, I would like to shoot CB Silhouette with cast. And then possibly shoot high power silhouette with jacketed sometimes because of the accuracy of the Ruger #1.

Thanks again for all your suggestions. I am on my way.

[richmanpoorman]

The nice thing about the M dies is that you can buy various size expander plugs w/o having to buy a whole new die. As for lead and jacketed in a No. 1 (not # 1) it's no problem as long as the lead loads don't lead the barrel.
I use both in my No. 1s 9.3x74, 375 H&H, 450/400, 45-70 and 458 Win Mag with fine results.

[Bzcraig]

NOE also makes M die type expanders, however I don't know how they compare price wise.

[No Blue]

I must be living right or something; I've been loading cast lead bullets in 9mm, 10mm, 38/357, 45, 30 Carbine, 300 BLK, and a few others with just the standard Lee dies and NEVER had any of the issues all of you are always whining about.

I follow the instructions, get a little belling on the case mouth, bullet installs with no shaving, and then the belling is crimped away in the next station.

Easy, peasy.

Maybe some review of technique is in order?

And I'm doing this a on Lee Loadmaster, the most reviled press in history!

That was another surprise; bought the LM in '95. Didn't find any reloading forums until '05. Find endless whining about the LM! How they can't prime on it. If I have the shell plate and dies, that's the only thing I WILL prime on; probably 3 or 4 times faster than hand priming.

I'd love to be observing a lot of you...see what you're doing and ask you why???

Why aren't you following the instructions?

Why don't you have any measuring tools?

And know how and where to use them?

Why no feedback loop? As you screw the die down, the belling gets larger; don't want it that big? Turn it the other way!

I can't believe the number of times I've seen this posted....It's too big, they keep cranking it down, it gets bigger and then they blame that damn Lee stuff! LOL

Should of bought the expensive green, blue, orange, or other red stuff; after all "you get what you pay for", or "buy once, cry once". LOL

When Gaston Glock was first selling his pistol, he wanted to undercut all the metal guns pricing by a considerable amount; he wanted to capture the market. As inexpensively as he could mold a plastic frame, compared to machining a metal one, he easily could.

But instead of a $250 MSRP, they were closer to $500. Reason?

His marketing weasels knew the "you get what you pay for" clowns, and the "buy once, cry once" morons, would instantly trash it at that price. Since those clowns and morons only know how to equate price with quality; nothing else computes with them.

That Glock came up with a manufacturing technique that made a better product at 20% of the cost of what went before, the clowns and morons couldn't figure it out.

We're all paying thru the nose for equipment and most of everything else we buy because of this.

Rant off. LOL

[dragon813gt]

NOE also makes M die type expanders, however I don't know how they compare price wise.

They're a lot cheaper and are available in more sizes. The stock M Die expander plugs are made for jacketed bullets. You also need two die bodies. It's cheaper in the long run to buy a Lee universal expanding die and appropriate NOE expander plugs.

As far as the Pacesetter dies, I've had no issues w/ them. I buy Lee first and if they don't work I buy another brand. I've only had to do this a few times and it wasn't because the dies didn't work for their intended purpose. It's because they didn't work for case forming. This is no fault of the dies since I was using them for something they weren't designed for.

[flashhole]

You are going to have to down-load the 7mm-08 to keep from leading the barrel. If you like scrubbing the barrel go with lead. I would start with jacketed bullets and get the process nailed down then migrate to lead.

Lee dies are fine. Better still is their approach to handloading as a complete system. For my 40 S&W the setup is 100% Lee. Lee Pro 4-20 Lead Pot, Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold, Lee Bullet Sizer, Lee Liquid Alox bullet lube, Lee Load Manual, Lee Classic Turret Press, Lee Shell Holder, Lee Dies including the Lee Powder Through Expander with Lee Die Rings, Lee Auto Drum powder drop with Lee Risers .... very well designed system and a pleasure to work with.

[robg]

I use Lee dies and the xpander die for my 223and 308 haven't had any problems with boolits in them .

[Taterhead]

Before settling on a solution for neck expansion, you must first know the diameter of the boolits that you'll load. Then you can know if the expander plugs in the expander die are of the appropriate diameter. Most likely the standard expander plugs are too narrow for cast boolits. As you know from your Cowboy dies, the only dimensional differences are the diameter of the expander plug shank.

The NOE solution is sound since you can order most any expander diameter that you need. Sizer, crimp and seaters will basically be similarly dimensioned except the profiles of seater plugs may vary.

[Tom W.]

I bought an RCBS expander die for my .30 caliber rifles. It works for the ones I had, but I learned to leave a note in the box as to which cases it was used on last. Flaring a 30/06 case with the die set up for a .308 makes for a strange looking piece of brass.

[EDG]

jajajajaja
Many here were loading 30 years in 95. That is long before Lee put his stuff on the market.
Perhaps you have never pulled a cast bullet with a damaged base from a sorry Lee expander.
Perhaps you are only a pistol ammo loader. Perhaps you only shoot gas check bullets.
There are many ways you can be totally oblivious to the substandard expanders in Lee dies.
One of those ways is to only use Lee dies and not have any experience with better dies.
BPCR shooters use soft heavy cast bullets and shoot them long distances for accuracy.
Almost all BPCR shooters use a higher quality expander to avoid damaging the base of the bullet.
If you are only a pistol shooter you might not be able to tell the difference on the target.




I must be living right or something; I've been loading cast lead bullets in 9mm, 10mm, 38/357, 45, 30 Carbine, 300 BLK, and a few others with just the standard Lee dies and NEVER had any of the issues all of you are always whining about.

I follow the instructions, get a little belling on the case mouth, bullet installs with no shaving, and then the belling is crimped away in the next station.

Easy, peasy.

Maybe some review of technique is in order?

And I'm doing this a on Lee Loadmaster, the most reviled press in history!

That was another surprise; bought the LM in '95. Didn't find any reloading forums until '05. Find endless whining about the LM! How they can't prime on it. If I have the shell plate and dies, that's the only thing I WILL prime on; probably 3 or 4 times faster than hand priming.

I'd love to be observing a lot of you...see what you're doing and ask you why???

Why aren't you following the instructions?

Why don't you have any measuring tools?

And know how and where to use them?

Why no feedback loop? As you screw the die down, the belling gets larger; don't want it that big? Turn it the other way!

I can't believe the number of times I've seen this posted....It's too big, they keep cranking it down, it gets bigger and then they blame that damn Lee stuff! LOL

Should of bought the expensive green, blue, orange, or other red stuff; after all "you get what you pay for", or "buy once, cry once". LOL

When Gaston Glock was first selling his pistol, he wanted to undercut all the metal guns pricing by a considerable amount; he wanted to capture the market. As inexpensively as he could mold a plastic frame, compared to machining a metal one, he easily could.

But instead of a $250 MSRP, they were closer to $500. Reason?

His marketing weasels knew the "you get what you pay for" clowns, and the "buy once, cry once" morons, would instantly trash it at that price. Since those clowns and morons only know how to equate price with quality; nothing else computes with them.

That Glock came up with a manufacturing technique that made a better product at 20% of the cost of what went before, the clowns and morons couldn't figure it out.

We're all paying thru the nose for equipment and most of everything else we buy because of this.

Rant off. LOL

[Smk SHoe]

when getting a new gun in a new caliber, first thing I buy is the Lee dies. Will buy more expensive or better quality later on, but the Lee dies do work. I also like the Lee expander with the Noe inserts. Lee is not the best equipment out there, but it is good equipment.