Promising 30-30 load

[Texas by God]

Today I tried a new load with 29 grs of Win 748 and the NOE 170gr RNGC bullets .455 Webley provided.
I fired two consecutive 3 shot groups- they were both 5/8".
This was at 50yards with my 93 Mauser. I may be onto something here.
Best, Thomas.

[LeadPoisonTX]

Congratulations. I've been wanting to try 748 in my 30-30 loads with the 175 grains 311041. I need to scratch this itch now. Is your 93 Mauser scoped or open sights? Do you know how fast your boolits are moving with that load? What is the intended purpose of your load, target/plinking, or hunting?

[Texas by God]

I got the load from my old Lyman manual. I think they were going about 1900 in Lyman's 26" test barrel. I haven't chrono'd mine yet-my barrel is 22" but they have some pep to them. I'm probably going to hunt something with them- or would a flat point be better?

[Texas by God]

Sorry- my rifle has a 60's vintage K4-F Weaver with the post reticle.

[LeadPoisonTX]

Sounds like you have a very nice vintage rifle with classic lines, and is a shooter to boot. I have not hunted with boolits, yet. However, I am working on a few hunting loads using 311041 which has a sizable meplat. I am following the advise of those here who have hunted with boolits, and their recommendation is to use a flat point, the larger the better. I would be happy to send you some 311041 for you to try, if you are interested.

[Texas by God]

Mama told me never refuse free bullets.
I'll PM you soon.
Best, Thomas.

[LeadPoisonTX]

Mama is a wise lady!

[rintinglen]

I shot a pile of the 311-041 Lymans over 30 and 34.0 grains of WW-748. I have hunted with it and used it for rams in silhouette. It s my favorite powder for the 30-30 in full loads and a fave in the 250 savage, and 308 Winchester as well.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've got 748 in the powder hopper after loading a few hundred .223 rounds so I guess I'll load up a test series of 30/30 ammo for my Winchester 54 and Savage 99H both in 30/30 calibre. Thanks for the info. I'll post some comparison data between 748 and the Surplus 4831 and 4895 loads next week.

[Texas by God]

Funny how I've been reloading for 44 yrs and this is the first time I've used W748. I loaded 50 full steam .358 225 gr Sierra boattails for elk (if I can go!) shot one group it was 1-1/2" for 3shots. I may add 748 to my must have powder list!

[Scharfschuetze]

Funny how I've been reloading for 44 yrs and this is the first time I've used W748. I loaded 50 full steam .358 225 gr Sierra boattails for elk (if I can go!) shot one group it was 1-1/2" for 3shots. I may add 748 to my must have powder list!

I've been using it since 1976 or so, but mostly in the .223/5.56 and the 308/7.62. At one time I opted for the very similar H335 as I was getting it for less than $1.50 a pound in bulk. Sadly those days are over. Once it was gone, 748 is back in the powder measure quite often. I'm down to my last 5 pounds of it now and it's going pretty fast now that I'm loading for the prairie dog hunts this summer.

I never really ever thought about using it in the 30/30 or 30 Remington with cast bullets until reading this thread. I'll report back on the results next week.

[fatelvis]

I never really ever thought about using it in the 30/30 or 30 Remington with cast bullets until reading this thread. I'll report back on the results next week.
Looking forward to the results Scharf. I'm always looking for a good load that works in a number of rifles. I think it shows a bit of laziness on my part to work up my own loads! Lol :coffeecom

[greenwart]

I am trying to work up a 30-30 load for my savage 325c using r-15. Here are the results for 31.5g194859

[Texas by God]

Scharfschuetze- I remember the cheap H335. My brothers and I used a ton of it because it fit our meager incomes. I still use it today. Is the burn rate cose to W748?

[Scharfschuetze]

Scharfschuetze- I remember the cheap H335. My brothers and I used a ton of it because it fit our meager incomes. I still use it today. Is the burn rate cose to W748?

I've always thought that they were pretty much the same powder, although I've been told by others that it isn't. Still, my loads were almost the same between the two powders and velocities over the chrongraph and accuracy on target were virtually identical for any given powder charge.

Just to be safe, I'd certainly work up to your desired loads if changing between the two powders.


Looking forward to the results Scharf. I'm always looking for a good load that works in a number of rifles. I think it shows a bit of laziness on my part to work up my own loads! Lol

Come Monday or Tuesday, I'll test 748 in my bolt action 30/30s with 33 and 34 grains of the stuff under the Lyman 311041 bullet. We shall see what the chrono and the targets say.

[Larry Gibson]

Winchester's 748 went through some changes since it was 1st introduced as 748BR. Then it was similar to surplus H335. Surplus H414 was very similar to 760BR also. About the time the surplus H335 and H414 dried up and Hodgdon began having them made H335 remained quite consistent in burning speed to the original but the new commercial H414 was a bit slower burning volume per volume. About the same time Winchester changed the three BR powders (748BR, 760BR and 780BR) to 748, 760 and 780 dropping the "BR". 748 became slightly slower burning (closer to BLC2 than H335). 760 remained pretty close to the same and was very similar to new commercial H414 (reported they are the same powder now).

In the 30-30 with 150 and 170 gr jacketed it takes a couple more +/- grains of 748 to equal the same psi as with H335.....in the .223 Rem with 55 gr jacketed it takes 1 to 1 1/2 grain more 748 to do the same..........indicators of the burning speed. Haven't worked with 748 under cast so I can't say there.

Larry Gibson

[Scharfschuetze]

Thanks Larry. My current 748 was bought in bulk about 25 years ago and it'll probably be gone by the end of the shoot-a-thons and prairie dog hunts this summer. I bought enough at the time to burn out two .223 barrels. Given its "youthful" age, I guess it should be of the slower burning variety as you describe above.

[Texas by God]

I'm waiting for the sun to dim a bit then I'm trying the op load in my 94 Winchester. If they play well the remaining rounds will quickly be emptied for refill.

[Texas by God]

I am trying to work up a 30-30 load for my savage 325c using r-15. Here are the results for 31.5g194859
That's great shooting right there.

[Texas by God]

Well my 94 & I turned in a 3" 5 shot group @ 40 yds. I let it cool and fired a 3/4" 3 shot group with my 93.
Then I fired the last three rounds from the 94 into 2". This is about par for my 94 with cast. I haven't found it's happy load yet. The Mauser 30-30 doesn't seem to care what I feed it lol.
Best,Thomas.

[LeadPoisonTX]

I am trying to work up a 30-30 load for my savage 325c using r-15. Here are the results for 31.5g194859

How did you get to neatly stack three shots one on top of another? Nice shooting, and nice load. That target is a keeper.

[Scharfschuetze]

Unlike Greenwart, I had an interesting but in the end, a frustrating day at the range.

Projectiles were the Lyman 311141 which from this particular Linotype alloy weigh on average 169.3 grains with lube and gas check. I shot only bullets that were + or - .3 grains of the average. Cases were uniformed Winchester cases with a firm roll crimp and primers were the CCI 200 LR.

My goal was to find a good high velocity (for the 30/30 that is) load. I thought that I'd start out with 33 grains of 748 and the results were:

Remington 788 (22" barrel) with scope sight using 33 grains of 748:
Average: 2161 fps Es: 13 Sd: 5.4
Accuracy was pretty lame, but I expected that given the 788's fast 1 in 10" rifling twist. So what is usually a 1 1/2 MOA rifle through 200 yards with this bullet ended up shooting into about 5 MOA at 100 yards.

Model 54 Winchester. I expected this rifle to handle the higher velocity well given its slower 1 in 12" twist 24" barrel, but that did not prove out in this instance.
Average: 2248 fps Es: 81 Sd 19 for 15 shots over the chronograph
Accuracy was also abysmal and probably just held a dinner plate at 100 yards.

34 Grains 748:

Remington 788:
Average: 2201 fps Es: 41 Sd: 12.6 for 10 shots
Accuracy is not worth talking about

Winchester Model 54:
Average: 2283 fps Es: 26 Sd: 7.6
Accuracy... Well, can you say skeet choke?

Absolutely no leading occurred at these velocities with the Linotype bullet sized to .310" and using NRA Alox formula lube with a copper gas check. Two patches down the barrel at the range pretty well cleaned up the bores at the end of the day.

Ballistic uniformity with the 748 was great and should have produced good accuracy, but as we all know, that does not always work out.

An interesting tidbit here is that the 24" Model 54 shoots these 748 loads 80 fps faster than the 22" Remington 788. Whether this is due to the extra two inches of barrel or it just has a faster barrel; I don't know. With the slower 4895 loads both rifles like, the difference is not nearly as pronounced.

Lyman lists a max load with this bullet of 35 grains of 748, but in my rifles, I probably need to back off to under 30 grains of 748 for accuracy. I was hoping to find a fast load for these long barreled bolt rifles, but the old standard load of 27 grains of surplus 4895 at around 1,900 fps in definitely better for paper punching or tipping over varmints. Both of these bolt rifles will shoot under 2 MOA all day long at 200 yards with the lighter 4895 load.

Rifles used today:

[Texas by God]

You may have to load the 748 down to get your usual accuracy. Those are beautiful rifles.

[guicksylver]

Don't give up on the Win 54...they shoot...for example..
http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/ok-so-maybe-the-311291-aint-so-bad.2509/#post-47980

[Scharfschuetze]

Don't give up on the Win 54...they shoot...for example..
http://www.artfulbullet.com/index.php?threads/ok-so-maybe-the-311291-aint-so-bad.2509/#post-47980

I agree Quicksylver. Five shot groups from my Model 54 look much like those in the link.

With the 170 grain 311141 and 27 grains of 4895, mine will shoot consistent 10 shot groups of about 1 to 1 1/2 MOA out through 200 yards off of a bench rest in calm conditions. I'm sure that if it had a scope on it, it would group even tighter, but the Redfield aperture sight on it just looks right and I'm pretty comfortable with peep sights, although aging eyes are starting to argue against them. My rifle, like all Model 54s of 1928 lacks scope mounting holes on the ring or bridge. As the rifle's value is pretty high without aftermarket screw holes, I'll just leave it as it is. I'd like to find an old Stith mount (uses the aperture sight holes and the dovetail in the barrel) for an old Weaver 330 that I have.