HELP! used Craftman lathe -table top!

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

I have been looking for a small lathe for a while. I stumbled on this one today.
It is a old Craftsman /ATLAS lathe (18 inch center to Center)

-- Model 1042400 --

It has all the manual style switch out thread gears, in the original box
8 inch three jaw chuck two sets of jaws
8 inch face plate
3 lathe face plate dogs
3 tool holders left, right & straight.
original Manual
some tools
two dial indicators
3/8 drill chuck

I think it has a 3/4 0r 7/8 inch bore hole

It has a 1/2 horse power single 110 Volt moter

My Question is HOW ACCURATE is it & Can I get parts?

The flat ways are in very good shape. Is this too small for some amaturer gunsmithing?
I am a retired Tool & Die maker so I know a lathes it looks nice & tight.
I only used full size machines.
I have no idea about this table top lathe. He wants $750 but I think he will take less!

Any input on this is welcome, PLEASE reply soon I'm suppose to get back to him tonight.

THANKS for any help,
broomhandle

[JIMinPHX]

I used to have a smaller version of that lathe. I got it second hand, less the change gears. I looked high & low for those gears until I finally found a guy in Closter NJ called Sobel Machinery that had the gear set I needed. That thief wanted more for the change gears than I had paid for the lathe. Parts for them are out there, but as they get scarce, the prices are going up.

I later gave that machine to my little brother & he used it for years. I think that a bike-builder friend of his has it now. It's a good solid machine that will run for many years if its not animalized.

Accuracy was good on that machine. The big thing holding it back was the small through hole in the spindle & the meager rigidity of the small diameter plain bearings in the head stock. By the part number you gave, I'm going to guess that the machine you are looking at probably has a 10" swing. If that is the case, then a 8" chuck is pushing your luck & may contribute to you having chatter problems when you try to push the machine moderately hard. A 6" chuck is usually a better match for a 10" machine, especially an older machine with small spindle bearings.

Changing gears manually to change a thread pitch or a feed rate is a bit of a hassle, but for occasional use, it's no big deal. As long as you have a set of change gears, the machine should be able to do what you want it to.

I'd have no prejudice against using a machine like that for a little home smithing work. If you aren't going to be doing anything that would require a bigger through hole in the spindle, then it should be a suitable machine.

[billyb]

IIRC that lathe was made by atlas, atlas still sells parts. Last time i checked ebay there were a lot of parts for the atlas and craftsman lathes. Bill

[1hole]

I paid $500 for my old but sound South Bend Mod. A 9" x 20" lathe a few years ago. It did have power cross-feed, a quick change gear box for threading and a nearly complete set of 3c collets, by 64ths, to 1/2", plus a decent 6" 3 jaw chuck, tool holders, etc. Had to buy a few parts off eBay to repair and complete the thing, spent maybe another $300 for the extra parts. Still need a 4 jaw and steady rest.

Point is, it's about the same size machine as the Atlas you are looking at and parts are available, used, on eBay anyway. It's much too small for barrel work but it's great for making gun pins, shafts, neck expander plugs, case collets, bullet size dies, mandrels for case neck turning, threaded gun parts and bolts, bushings, pillar bedding sleeves, modifying loading dies (with carbide tool bits), making seating die stems, etc.

My small lathe adds a lot of capability and fun to my tinkering, think you would enjoy one too!

[Bret4207]

That SB is a lot more machine than the Atlas. I have a 6" model and have abused it beyond reason. That price is kinda high. For a grand you should be able to find a SB/Clausing/LeBlond maybe, for $1500 for sure.

[deltaenterprizes]

It is kind of high price for a tinker toy like that.I have a 12 x 36 Southbend G 26T I hope I can get $500 for and it was made in the early 90s.

[HeavyMetal]

I found a South bend 9 inch at a yard sale! Quick change gear box and tight ways $500.00! I still use it and just bought a 5C collet chuck for it. I had an Atlas, Sears machine with a 42 inch bed on it. sold it to a guy who wanted to make pool cue's with it!

The little Atlas isn't a bad machine but his price is to high. If he won't come down hold out fo a bit larger south bend or Logan.

Check out a few web sites like: www.lathe.com www.plazamachinery.com or

www.millermachineandfabrication.com

I've also talked to a Fred Eisner, no web site but phone is 914-720-5523 ( cell) he handles used machinery.

Hey maybe you can buy the Atlas, at the right price, he might know someone with a need and do some trading??

As in all things; buyer beware! Hope the site's yield something for you.

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,
I just spent about two hours searching the web to learn about this lathe.

I'm in Augusta ga and there is NOTHING around here. I checked craigslist in atlanta a while back, with no luck I will keep on looking.

I might offer him $200 I'll keep looking!

Thank you ALL VERY MUCH!

Broom

[broomhandle]

Hi Fellows,

I found two but will not be able to see them for about a week or so.
Both are about 200 miles from me one way!:???:

One is a Logan & the other is a Sheldon, both are running & have 36 inchs between centers.
About $2000 each with two chucks and most tooling & live centers.
I do not have model #s yet.

Do you guys recomend one over the other?

The Sheldon is suppose to be the shorter 16 1/2 gear box type with larger tail stock hole.
"Prefered for gunsmithing" ?? I have no idea.

Thanks for your help,
broom

[Buckshot]

................Logan and Sheldon are somewhat comparable. So far as parts availability and support goes the Logan has it all over the Sheldon.

Desireable options in either lathe, in the order I would attach the most importance to if it were me looking:

1) Quick change gearbox

2) At least a 1-3/8" hole through the spindle so you can use 5C collets (and the collet closer assembly).

3) "L" or "D" series spindle nose. However, if one had a threaded spindle nose but DID have the 2 items above (with the collet closer), I'd overlook the threaded spindle and go for it.

4) Steady rest (Logan, available but $$$$) (Sheldon ?)

5) QC toolpost and holders

Two grand sounds a tad high, but possibly availability in the area may have something to do with it. Incidental tooling besides chucks is always nice, but compared to a steady rest, face plates and 3 & 4 jaw chucks they are 'incidental'. Tailstock tooling like live and dead centers and drill chucks can be bought over time.

Dead centers are cheap. A very nice live center can be had for less then $100. If it comes with a taper mounted chuck and it centers well good deal. Otherwise Enco and MSC both have Jacobs ball bearing 'Super Chucks' on sale almost constantly.

I don't know about the Sheldon but on the Logan you won't get the big spindle bore nor the L00 or D1-4 spindle nose until you hit the 11" (actually 11-5/8") machine. Before Houdaille Industries (Powermatic) took over Logan production in the early 70's the serial number was stamped on top of the bed on the extreme right-front. Afterwards the model number and serial will be on a metal plate rivited to the right bed support. If the serial or model number contains an "H" it denotes a flame hardened bed.

..................Buckshot

[quasi]

I would not rate a Logan with a Sheldon. Sheldon's are a higher quality lathe than a Logan or a Southbend. When they were all still manufactured a Sheldon lathe was over double the retail price of the equivalent Logan or Southbend.

Buckshots parameters are right on for a gunsmithing lathe. I had a 10" sheldon that had a 1 3/8" spindle bore, 2 1/4-8 tpi spindle nose. Both Logans and Sheldons sell for much less on Ebay than the equivalent size Southbend sells for.

[KCSO]

Yes, yes the XXX is a better lathe. BUT... the old flat bed Atlas lathe will still do just about anny gunsmithing joob you need done and it is just as accurate as the user wants it to be. As an old Atlas owner of yore I can attest that they are not shoddy junk. My Brother in Law still has 4 Atlas lathes that belonged to the Martin Motor Company since 1955, they still work and theyy still turn out quality Martin Motor parts. Yes Buckshot has the right idea for a GUNSMITH lathe for 2008, but none of the old timers had that kind of gear and most hobbiests don't need it. I stil do a good share of my work on my 10" South Bend that was made the yeaar I was born. If I had to I could get by with just this lathe for the rest of my life. I sure rate it or an Atlas a lot higher than a Smithy or a JET.

[broomhandle]

Hi Fellows,

Thanks for your input. I need as much info as I can get.

Be well & safe,
broom

[bigbird1]

I bought a really nice 10x36 atlas, it is great, parts are all over ebay , just look, think I paid 800.00 with a lower tool bench. the gear changing over is the only drawback. look on ebay to get a idea of what your lathe is selling for. mine is a 1955 and still working strong.

[Willbird]

I was looking on one a guy had listed online. I did some research and found out they are not nearly as nice a machine as say a south bend. From what I gathered you use the half nuts for carriage feed while turning, that did not appeal to me one bit :-).

They also use some zemac castings in areas where they can be broken, and some zemac gears in the cross feed maybe ??

If all of this is considered the price point for one should be quite a bit lower than other simalar size machines that are much more robust.

Bill

[Buckshot]

...............It is true that the flatbed Atlas lathes are a bit on the flexible side. However Sears sold a ton of'em and some pretty amazing stuff has been accomplished using them. Many a model steam and gas engine has been turned out on one. It is odd the way prices are on those lathes. When Montgomery Ward had Logan supply them lathes, they sold for twice the price of a comparable Atlas. But that is because they were twice as heavy, and while maybe not completely twice the lathe the Atlas was, they were a definate step up in rigidity and capability.

Now it's almost the opposite. Probably a lot of it is nostalgia (Everyone had an Atlas in the garage or basement) and name recogniton. A comparably set up South Bend will generally always bring more money then a Logan. EVERYONE knows the South Bend name. It really is a wonder to see what those Atlas lathes will bring.

.................Buckshot

[KCSO]

I started with an Atlas 36" lathe that I bought will all the acessories for $750.00. I made a lot of gun parts with that old Atlas but eventually tired of change gears. I have and still use a South Bend as t cuts threads better than any of the new lathes I have tried including Grizzly, Smithy and Jet. BByy the same token a good friend of mine swears by his Logan that he has used for years and wouldn't part with it for any amount of money, and he owns a whole machine shop full of newer tools. A lot of new lathe users in my opinion get side tracked by hype and don't look to see what THEY will use the lathe for... An Atlas will make candle holders and ram rod tips just a nice as a brand X and yo don't need tolerances of 1/2 of a thou for most work anyway. If yo just want a lathe to make small parts and do dads ther is nothing wrong with learning to turn between centers for an occasional bigger job. Yes it is handy to slip a part through the head stock but it is not entirely necessary. I will admit to a certian prejudice as i would rather have an American Atlas than a Chinese anything.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have two Atlas lathes, a 7" x 21" and a 10" x 24" (with a 36" bed I plan to install in the latter when I get room). The larger one has the old hand change gears but somebody installed an aftermarket quick-change gearbox on it. The former is a hand-change proposition. I bought the former new in 1978 for $250, and spent about that much more on tooling for it over succeeding years. The latter cost $900 in the early '90's, but came with several chucks, a collet set, milling attachment and other tooling. I spent another $200 on the extra bed, and $90 on a steady rest.

Other people get better deals, but it's a matter of luck. I would say I got good value for my money, absent being in the right place at the right time. It's nice to find a Hardinge or Clausing or Logan tool-room lathe in a barn or at a yard sale for $700, but that doesn't happen often enough to be a factor in many prospective lathe purchases. I've been to used machinery stores in LA and environs, and typically the worn-out, brazed- and welded-to, and tool-less machinery that is small enough to fit in the amateur's workspace goes for as much or more than a fully-tooled-up Chinese machine. No bargains there. Going to used-machinery auctions or keeping an eye on want ads can run into a lot of time and gas money.

Changing gears by hand is an inconvenience, all right, right up to the moment you need some off-the-wall thread like the ones on Ideal tong tools or some of the more metric rifles or pistols. Then somehow the changeover goes a lot faster and the grease on your hands wipes off a lot easier.

Generally, I'm proof against "Brand Voodoo," but I have to say I'm an Atlas fan. Their idea was to offer a good machine for the user who did not have to be in business to be able to afford it, and/or didn't have to use it all the time to amortize his investment. The cast gears and the flat beds were a necessary part of this cost reduction, but with care they will last as long and give as accurate work as the hobbyist or handyman needs. I've got an Atlas shaper, too and am more or less keeping my eyes open for an Atlas milling machine.

It's a disservice to the prospective hobbyist to make a blanket insistance that only an expensive, heavy, high-precision machine will do. They surely make jobs easier and quicker for somebody who is in business or production, but the quantity of the hobbyist's output isn't really an issue, whereas affordability is. I can't take a tenth-of-an-inch chip off a shaft and still maintain a tolerance of 0.0005" with either of my lathes, but I can still make parts that are that close in tolerance, albeit more slowly.

[Frank46]

I'm dating myself because I bought my 6" craftsman/atlas from sears just about when I got out of the navy in 1867. Had the 4 jaw, 3 jaw, change gears, assortment of cutting bits, live center for the tailstock, dead center for the headstock,and extras like the milling attachment, headstock chuck made by jacobs (try and find one today)
And a bunch of spare parts that I got from a machinery shop supply house which consisted of lead screw jaws, bronze bushings for the crosslide extra hand wheels. All in all I was pretty well equipped to basically do what I wanted to do with the setup I had at the time. Made a tool post holder out of 2.5" cold rolled steel. Got tired of the lantern type with the rocker. So for many years this is all Ihad. plus a second hand drill press. These little machines helped many an amateur machinist start out. Now I have a get 13x40 geared head lathe with still even more goodies. But still there might be a job the the little lathe could do faster and easier that the big one. Like the trigger group removal screw found on the BSA 12/15 martini. I've seen a few of then that had aquired burrs over the years from not using the proper tool to either tighten or loosen this screw. All it takes is setit up in the little 3 jaw chuck and use a steel ball bearing to knockoff the burrs and then polish the concave recess using the same ball bearing and a finer abrasive. So don't sell these little lathes short there is still a lot of life left in them yet. Worse comes to worse, you can always use them to clean and polish the action screws, firing pins, bolts, prior to polishing and blueing, sometimes its the little bits is all it takes to take a job up to the next level. Frank

[Bret4207]

My 6" Atlas has 2 beds end to end, something Dad engineered, so I have double the bed length and double or 4X the flex. The whole shebang is bolted to a U-channel steel beam, it still has a lot of flex. Bolting it to the bench hasn't happened yet as I have to adjust it about every 4th time I use it. I have 3 and 4 jaw chucks, (I really do need a better 3 jaw as mine is beat), milling attachment or 2, a ho' made tool post grinder and a bunch of spare accessories. I also bought an after market tool post. The cross slide has a ton of wear and flex. By the time I tighten things up to get rid of the flex I can't move the cross slide. I freely admit I beat this thing, but when you HAVE to get something done and all you need is a simple reduction in a flange shoulder or something then you chuck the oversize, overweight, out of balance project in the chuck and hope for the best. The one thing I would do if I was buying an Altas is out and out forget the carbide tooling, the inexpensive stuff anyway. I've tried a couple of the insert type sets and it was horrible! Between the flex in the tool post/cross slide and the tooling itself it was awful. Good sharp HSS tools work fine.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

1867??? Frank, Which side of the "War of Northern Aggression" were you on? Ever get a chance to see the Monitor or Merrimac in action?:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Morgan

[Bent Ramrod]

Bret,

I think the Clausing Industrial, Inc., Service Center, P.O. 3566, Kalamazoo, MI 49003-3566 still supports Atlas lathes with parts. You might be able to get some new gibs and shims for your lathe from them. That dual bed idea is quite bold, at least. I once wrote Atlas asking them to make a longer bed for the 6-inch lathe, and they said they had no plans of ever doing so. Too bad; all it needed was length for barrel jobs and it would have been the standard intro gunsmithing lathe.

I was able to rethread and rechamber a 21-3/4" section of .22 barrel for my Stevens 414 action on my 6-inch lathe. Had the muzzle as far into the 4-jaw chuck as I could get it, a steady rest as far down the bed as would fit, the apron out to the end of the bed and the tool holder held in the lantern by the very end and dangling off the right side of the bed ways, with the tailstock removed. Took a while to cut those threads, with a lot of checking and indicating in between, but the gun shoots like gangbusters, so I must have done something right.:mrgreen:

[Frank46]

Morgan, you got me there. Hey, since you mentioned living in new york. Did you ever get to Bergs gunshop in Islip on long Island?. Used to be next to the Islip drag strip and in behind the store was a rifle and pistol range. The guy who owned it used to have all sorts of neat single shot rifles and other goodies. Frank

[Morgan Astorbilt]

No Frank, I've been out of there almost thirty years. I lived near Islip, in Oakdale (part of Islip Township), from 1972, 'tll 1984. Must have been before then. There was a gun shop on the north side of Montauk Hwy (Main St.) in Islip. He had a full sized replica Parrot Rifle, I craved, but couldn't afford. There was no Islip drag strip, only Islip Speedway, in CI (Central Islip). where they raced dirt track, figure eight, and demolition derby. The nearest rifle range was the Brookhaven Town Range. Of course Charlie had his range out in Calverton, where we all went, due to lack of restrictions. Boy you brought back memories.
Morgan

[Frank46]

Morgan, don't remember seeing a parrot there. But memories are kinda hazy. Used to shoot at the Brookhaven range many times. They closed it down due to people who started moving into the area and complaining about the noise. But they opened up another one. Was a ex-military range. Yep, Charlie was one of a kind. If the range wasn't open, you would have to call him up on the phone that was on the range and he'd come down and open the gates. Kinda funny shooting down in the sand pits. At least you could drive your car down there and right up to the benches. No longer live
up there so don't know if either range is still open. Did some shooting at the Huntington range also. Frank

[Morgan Astorbilt]

The first range I ever shot at was out in Wyandanch, off Straight path, a few miles north of the Southern State. This was back in the mid fifties. My dad had to take me, I didn't yet have a driver's license (too young). That range was also closed down a few years later.
Morgan

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

broomhandle; Go on Sears website, on the toolbar I believe it's repair parts, you can enter your model number and it will bring up a parts schematic, and parts list.
I have a 12X36, and a 6X18, I got gears and shafts to rebuild the quickchange on the 12", also all the parts to replace the half nuts.
I will caution you, they "take no prisoners" with shipping and handling, seems like $13 per order is a popular amount with them, so order all your parts on one order!

[klcarroll]

Broomhandle;

I had a 10", Flat-Way Atlas for many years, and as you well know, when an operator is thoroughly familiar with his machine, good work can be done in spite of some mechanical shortcomings.

……But JIMinPHX is quite correct: …..The most serious limitation on that machine is the small “pass-thru” capability of the spindle. It will make a lot of barrel work more difficult.

.