New Carry Gun Question

[alamogunr]

I'm looking at small carry guns, both for myself and son and daughter-in-law. I'm attracted to the S&W Shield models(mostly because of the rebate). I'm somewhat confused by the contradictions on some sites concerning the price and availability of models with thumb safety and without.

Of course, my Glocks don't have a thumb safety and I've never felt "unsafe" with them. My question concerns suitability for son & DIL, who are not "gun" people but are acquainted with guns.

Threads on this board have spoken favorably of the S&W's and while I might prefer something else for myself, the S&W Shield models are attractive from a price standpoint.

Input would be appreciated.

[Lefty Red]

I don't like safeties on carry weapons with striker fired triggers. Unless they were designed for safeties, like the 1912 or BHP, I don't want them.

I can't shoot most small single stacked 9s on the market. I have had the majority of them. The Shield is a great pistol! And yeah, the rebates make them today's Best Buy! I think the Glock 43 carries better though.

Lefty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[35remington]

Since I carry IWB appendix with the pistol essentially pointed at my junk, and since I am used to safeties my Shields have safeties by preference. The safety on the 45 Shield is a little bigger than the 9/40 variant.

My draw grip has the the thumb on the rear of the slide rather than wrapped around the grip as the gun is pulled. Since the thumb must sweep down to complete the grasping of the pistol when it is drawn, it is unlikely I will forget to remove the safety as it is directly in the path of the moving thumb.

If choosing the safety less variant be sure the holster is the rigid type only. No floppy holsters with safety less automatics!

With the smaller capacity magazine the grip length is a little longer than a G43, but then that is because it carries an additional shot.

Reliability of 40 and 45 variants has been excellent, sights are easy to see, and accuracy all that is needed. The Shields are an excellent value especially with the rebates. I like mine.

[Walkingwolf]

The person's input you need is your son, and his wife. Take them to a gun store, and see what they like, if possible rent some firearms for them. I have the same action every time I get ready to fire a semi auto whether they have the safety or not. Safety, no safety, as long as the gun goes bang when it is supposed to.

[alamogunr]

I've encouraged them to go to the range near their home and try several. I just don't know what the range has for rent. I would think that they would have the Shield in at least one chambering.

[dubber123]

I really like my Shield 40 with a safety. This is my reasoning; it seems an awful lot of "accidents" with striker fired guns with the "trigger safety" occurs on holstering. The trigger gets snagged on something, the gun gets shoved in, you get a new hole you weren't born with or want. I put the safety on, holster, remove safety. I feel better doing it this way. Years of shooting 1911's has me by habit swiping the safety off after drawing anyways, but they are pretty small on the Shields, so I prefer it off once in the holster. Spend the money for a GOOD retention holster that is rigid and covers the trigger.

[gray wolf]

The person's input you need is your son, and his wife. Take them to a gun store, and see what they like, if possible rent some firearms for them

Just saying here--for a carry gun cost and rebates would be nice--
but way low on the influencing scale.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I do not own a Shield but have shot them in 40 s&w it's a solid little pistol and shoot's well if I was going to carry one it would
not have a safety on it

[bedbugbilly]

I have a 9mm Shield - love it, eats everything I feed it - commercial or my cast reloads - never a hiccup.

I carry OWB in a Fobus. Mine has the safety which gives me the option of using it or not. It is rather "stiff" and I just don't use it . . . not a biggie as far as I'm concerned. My Ruger SR9 had a safety and having shot 1911s years ago, I learned a long time ago how to thumb sweep it off on drawing. I have never had a issue with my Shield as far as the safety being left off and having it accidentally getting "knocked on". YMMV. For a single stack, IMHO, the Shield is a great buy, shoots well and is reliable and is thin and light enough that it is an easy carry - I hardly recognize that I have it on.

[Blackwater]

FWIW, a buddy recently got a Shield in 9mm., and loved it. His was very accurate, and functioned perfectly. I don't think he ever had a failure with it.

[bdicki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRsxcPfZ8mE

[cwheel]

One thing not mentioned in this thread, are any of the intended shooters left handed ?? If they are, safety will be on the wrong side of the gun and more likely to cause a problem getting it into action. I'm a lefty, and just for that reason my Ruger LC-9 pro has no safety.
Chris

[Rainier]

​First, I like to tell folks that for a selfdefense gun price shouldn't matter because if (lord willing no one will ever need to) you ever need it, at that moment, you’ll give everything you have and everything your ever going to have for a quality, reliable firearm.


Second, I’ll share an experience. I was helping a nice young lady learn to shoot so I broke out a few usual suspects; A 1911, CZ 75P01, Glock 19, GP 100, titanium Mod 85, and a Mark II (yes, it was a lot of cleaning). She shot them all and enjoyed shooting - bonus! I advised her to check out a LGS that has a rental range and see what feels best in her hands. Next time we went to the range she was the proud owner of a S&W shield in 9mm. All I’m trying to say is whatever feels great in their hands and can they afford, even if its a stretch, is most likely they gun they should choose.


And lastly, the gun that lives in my pocket is a Kimber Solo. It has a safety and ambidextrous controls.

[tygar]

I got the 45 Shield without safety for $299 at CDNN.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've never considered the addition of a manual safety to be an improvement. In fact, I believe that relying on a manual safety may actually increase the incidents of accidental discharges. I've repeatedly seen individuals disengage a manual safety AND pull the trigger when they didn't intend to fire the gun. For some people disengaging the safety becomes a subconscious act and for those folks the safety ceases to be a "safety".
It is a mindset and training issue but it's not an issue that can be overcome by some mechanical device.

Passive safeties such as firing pin blocks and grip safeties are in a different category. A passive safety doesn't prevent the operator from pulling the trigger and firing the weapon but a passive safety DOES help to prevent the weapon from firing if dropped or mishandled.

If my choices were a striker fired pistol with a passive safety (or several passive safeties) vs. the same platform with the addition of a manual safety - I would go with the one that Didn't have the additional manual safety. Even for non-gun type people. I don't think the addition of a manual safety does anything positive to improve that design.

In all of my years of using shotguns I've NEVER relied on a manual safety and only engaged the safety when I was forced to do so by some range rule. An empty chamber and your finger out of the trigger guard is a far better method to prevent an AD with a shotgun than some little metal button. The same holds true for pistols like Glocks, SIGs and other pistols with passive safeties. A SIG 228 with a live round chambered and the hammer de-cocked is just as safe (maybe safer) as a 1911 with a chambered round, cocked hammer and the manual safety engaged. (and I carried a "cocked & locked" 1911 for years)

The only thing a manual safety will do with a great deal of certainty - is prevent the gun from firing when you WANT the gun to fire if you fail to disengage the safety. Sometimes the gun not going bang is just as bad as the gun going bang when you don't want it to.

[9.3X62AL]

I have too little contact and range time with the new-pattern S&W autoloaders to give an informed opinion.

The Glock system was built with new/inexperienced shooters in mind. It would be difficult for me to recommend against a Glock system pistol for most venues. No, they aren't quite as affordable as the S&W + rebate. Yes, they as ugly as a mud fence. But they WORK--and no other maker in the USA has nearly as many local factory-trained armorers as Glock has. In terms of the "dollar spent/value received" quotient, the Glock is very hard to out-do.

O/P--have you asked you son & DIL what their preferences might be? Revolver vs. self-loader? Caliber/recoil management? Our girls LOVE Glocks, FWIW.

[Bigslug]

A whole lot less unnecessary parts on the Glock 43.

The problem with a manual safety being "safer" is that forgetting to take it off can get a rookie killed in a fight just as surely as a negligent discharge through his femoral artery from mishandling. Choose the form of your paranoia. Keeping it in a holster where shirt-tails, keyrings, etc... can't get into the triggerguard and making the operator's default setting to keep booger-hook along the frame when not shooting pretty much alleviates all of this. . .as does a DA revolver.

[clum553946]

Have they tried shooting your Glocks & if so, how do they like them? If they do, you have a wealth of info you can relate to them. My shooting partner carries 9mm shield, but bought the Glock 380 for his wife. I carry Glocks & like them for concealed carry. I do like the Glock over my buds Shield.

[alamogunr]

The first gen Glock 19 is the only one suitable. I'm sure that DIL couldn't handle the Glock 21.

[35remington]

No need to get ones knickers in a twist over a safety as you can get the Shield with or without.

Perhaps we should wonder how all those long guns, all of which have safeties, can possibly be employed effectively if there is such a huge risk to carrying and using a gun effectively that has one. How did we ever manage to get by without guns that came with no safeties?

By the amount of passionate harping on the subject one gets the impression that the very validity of using a firearm effectively must be at risk over the safety or not issue.

If it is a training issue either way, proselytizing that a gun must or must not have a safety is probably the most irrelevant argument we can be making.

Whatever dogmatic views one has on the safety or not issue can be easily refuted by real life examples such as the above.

[Love Life]

Safety or no safety...meh. Practice is the name of the game. Good, quality practice.

If they get the shield with safety, show them the manual of arms, recommend they practice it for a couple minutes per day with an unloaded gun, and call it good.

[BigAl52]

Glocks dont work for everyone. I cant stand them and I have owned them. Sure they may be the best in the world to some but there not to me. I will keep my shield in 45 acp with a saftey I might add.

[Geezer in NH]

Glock's have a safety , keep your booger hook out of the trigger guard and keep other stuff such as anything out of the pocket or holster from going into it.

Let them as newbies get used to them or whatever at the range and some training. Or if they won't do that it is on them. You cannot force someone to help themselves relatives or not.

Sorry for a rant but enabling folks to make a stupid decision for protection is hard. They make other life decisions way less important and pretty much as lethal as a firearm every day. But if they are to busy or lazy or no time fore a firearm PASS.

[Huntsman52]

I have a shield performance center 40 w/ safety. Great concealed carry gun and very accurate. Can carry with or without safety engaged. In my opinion the safety is easier to disengage than to engage. I find the safety to be a non-issue. If your DIL carries in a purse I would recommend a safety. I would also encourage shooting one first though if possible to check fit.

[Walkingwolf]

Funny thing is~everybody I know that has had a ND with any gun, particularly glock, were trained. It has usually been know it all's who extol the virtue of no safety.

Glock plus trained, and full of himself=ND


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YqcvuRRggM

[alamogunr]

Glock's have a safety , keep your booger hook out of the trigger guard and keep other stuff such as anything out of the pocket or holster from going into it.

Let them as newbies get used to them or whatever at the range and some training. Or if they won't do that it is on them. You cannot force someone to help themselves relatives or not.

Sorry for a rant but enabling folks to make a stupid decision for protection is hard. They make other life decisions way less important and pretty much as lethal as a firearm every day. But if they are to busy or lazy or no time fore a firearm PASS.

Not sure what I said to prompt all this. Even if they are not "gun" people, they are not stupid or lazy.

Maybe that is the risk we take when we open up to "Geezers".

[35remington]

The fact that it comes with or without a safety means nobody has to go contrary to currently popular dogma or personal preference.

Win-Win.

[Lefty Red]

The fact that it comes with or without a safety means nobody has to go contrary to currently popular dogma or personal preference.

Win-Win.

Well stated.

This thread and others like it get heated when we think we have to justify why we do something. Not everything works for everyone. Nor does everyone want the same thing.

Mom says I'm special and that is all I need to know! :)

Lefty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[charlie b]

LOL I always wondered what she meant when she said that.

I like safeties on some, on others not. Some guns I carry with a round in chamber, some I do not.

I have a Springfield XD at one time. Great pistol and nice trigger. But, I did not trust myself with it. I am used to DA revolver type triggers or SA triggers. That one was kind of in between and I just could not get used to using it safely when not on a range. I should have gotten the version with an external safety.

NOTE: That was MY problem, not the gun. It was perfectly safe with a round in the chamber. I was not. And that was when my normal carry gun was a 1911, cocked and locked. Training.

The best situation is to have one gun and practice with it a LOT.

And yes, even after years of instructing in the military I have had two AD's. Both were while clearing unfamiliar weapons. Last one was over 20yrs ago.