.358 Winchester works again!

[waksupi]

I thought I would try out the Bator Lites in the .358 Winchster this season. I water quenched them, and annealed the noses.
This morning, I went hunting across the valley, and was rattling for bucks. I saw one pretty decent one, but there wasn't a clear shot. I moved to a new location and rattled again, no luck. Moving along the north end of the property, I started seeing fresh elk sign. I started doing a sneek and peak along the ridge, looking into the ravines, and across to the next ridge. Then I spotted a color that wasn't quite right. I put the binoculars on it, and it was an elk. It was only about a hundred yards away, but there were many trees, and I could only see it's back. As I watched, I saw several other elk. They were moving slowly, and I had a pretty good idea where they would cross on the ridge. I dropped back under cover of my ridge, and went as quickly and as quietly as I could. I got to the saddle, and only beat them by a few seconds. The lead cow stepped into a clearing, and I put a bullet into her, angling forward from behind the ribs, shooting for the far shoulder from about 25 yards. She humped up, and moved slowly away, as more elk came into view. I used the cow call to keep them calm, and they walked slowly away.
I heard the cow go down, and heard her breath rattling as she was dying. She made it about twenty five yards before she was down.
The bullet traversed the chest cavity, taking a large section out of the top of a lung, and exited the far shoulder, breaking it. The exit was about one inch in the flesh, but smaller in the hide. I believe I got some expansion, but am not positive. There is zero bloodshot meat.
This one was considerably larger in body size than I got last year. Fortunately, I was able to get the pickup back on an old logging trail, and pulled her up off the side hill with a rope to gut, skin, and quarter her.
It took about an hour fifteen minutes to get her ready to travel.
So, it looks like I'm cutting meat this weekend, and will probably spend the rest of the season hunting bucks, with the bow I got from Drew.
I was going to post a picture, even though my head was cut of in the photo, and the batteries went dead in the camera. Anyone know how to reduce pictures in Windows XP? File is too large to load here.

[Bullshop]

Excellent, most excellent(pat on back) congradulations (hand shake) A good job, well done!
BIC/BS

[Oldfeller]

Ric, if you attach it to an email sent to me at kelly.alexander@engineer.com I'll post it for you.

Kelly

[SharpsShooter]

Outstanding Ric,

That oughta make a good start on the winters meat. Sorry to hear ya lost yer head in the process. :lol:

[RugerFan]

[QUOTE= Anyone know how to reduce pictures in Windows XP? File is too large to load here.[/QUOTE]


Windows XP comes with Microsoft Photo Editor (at least mine did). Pull up your photo in that program and then click "Image" then "Resize". Now change the height and width percentage to a lower number.

[PatMarlin]

Way to go Ric!

How do you anneal your noses?

[Scrounger]

Resize photo; Go to 'Start', then 'My Pictures', Right click on selected photo; Drop box menu opens, Left Click on 'Resize'; Reduce it it to 50% and use usual procedure to post here.

[waksupi]

Scrounger, that worked. Still haven't figured out the bells and whistles, let alone the geegaws and foofawraw!

[waksupi]

Pat, I sat the pre-hardened bullets in a tray of water, up to the level I wanted them annealed to. Then heated the nose with an Ocy-Acetylene torch. Too much of a good thing. I ruined maybe 20%, from too much heat, but got plenty for hunting purposes. I didn't do a whole lot of them.

[MT Gianni]

nice shooting Ric. Gianni.

[PatMarlin]

Ric,

I've been wanting to have my Marlin 336 in 35 remington rechambered to .358 Winchester.

Uses .308 brass, and I hear makes a fine shooter out of it. It sounds like the .358 is a much better cast shooter also. The mod only runs around $100!

[PatMarlin]

Where is Somers?

The only place I've been was in Butte, back in bout 77. My band was playing at the Ramada Inn I think it was, and we met Evil Knevil, and did shots with him and the bar help after hours one night.. :mrgreen:

[waksupi]

Pat, if you have a .35 Rem already, I wouldn't mess with it. You're going to have exactly the same end results velocity and performance wise. The only gain would be in the cheap brass.

To find Somers, look at a map of Montana, up in the NW corner near Glacier Park. Just south of that, you will see Flathead Lake. On the NW corner of the lake, is Somers. I'm up in the mountains a few miles. When you were in Butte, you were still about four hours driving time away from here.

[Abert Rim]

Waksupi: Nice cow! I only hope to be as fortunate with my muzzleloader next week. How much do the bator Lites weigh?

[waksupi]

Abert, they are 237 gr, with lube and gas check.

[Hardcast]

I have never heard of this bullet. Where can I find information on it?

P.S. I have a .358 Win pistol. It sure makes a big boom with full power loads....

[grumble]

I have never heard of this bullet. Where can I find information on it?

P.S. I have a .358 Win pistol. It sure makes a big boom with full power loads....

http://www.gilanet.com/tundraj/C358-200-RF%20BATOR%2012-03-02.jpg

[Hardcast]

http://www.gilanet.com/tundraj/C358-200-RF%20BATOR%2012-03-02.jpg

OK, thanks. I wrongly assumed he was talking about a commercial bullet. The Bator looks similar my .358-180 RF group buy mold.

[grumble]

Wally Bator drew up a lot of boolit designs. I think this bunch made special orders on about 6 of them.

Anytime you see the "Bator" name attached to the boolit, it will be a special order from a couple years ago.

[waksupi]

The bullet in question. Once again, a crummy photo.

[Hardcast]

Although this is the "hunting with CB's" forum, I would like to ask a question about this bullet. This bullet, and maybe to a slightly lesser extent, the .358-180 RF, appears long enough that seated to a normal depth in a .358 Win case, the grease groove just above the gas check, and maybe the next one too, will be down in the case with the powder. Yes or no?

[JDL]

Congrats on the elk Ric! I backslid and used one of the "golden" bullets to collect mine but, could have as easily done the deed with my .358 and my 225 grain M/M boolit. -JDL

[The Nyack Kid]

good job with the elk waksupi.
were did you go to get her ? or is this topsecretgoingtohavetoshootyouifitoldyou
i havent seen a elk al hunting season

[JDL]

waksupi,
Do you know the velocity of your load? -JDL

[versifier]

Waksupi,
As we don't have too many of them here in New England, I was wondering what elk tastes like. I have enjoyed venison (from whitetails), moose, and caribou. How does it compare? :coffee:

[waksupi]

Nyack, I got her on Notellum Creek.

JDL, velocity was 1980 fps.

Versifier, tastes like chicken. Or good lean beef.

"Although this is the "hunting with CB's" forum, I would like to ask a question about this bullet. This bullet, and maybe to a slightly lesser extent, the .358-180 RF, appears long enough that seated to a normal depth in a .358 Win case, the grease groove just above the gas check, and maybe the next one too, will be down in the case with the powder. Yes or no?"

Hardcast, that's a hard one for me to answer. I had the throat cut to fit the heavy bullets. On this one, I have the front four grooves exposed, to seat it out as far as possible in my rifle. Best accuracy for me. However, it doesn't fit for beans in my .35 Remington. I've never loaded it down to a depth where the grooves were in the case in the .358, but have had it seated way down in the Rem. There is no problem seating with the grooves in the powder space.

[carpetman]

Versifier---Folks taste buds being different,the animals themselves being different from the way they were handled and what they eat etc, you'll get a wide variety of opinions on how various game tastes. For my tastes,I put moose at top,followed fairly closely by elk,whitetail a distant third and caribou somewhat behind that and antelope firmly anchoring last place. BruceB,rates caribou very high. For sausage and jerky,I find it hard to distinguish between em. Never tried bighorn sheep--I hear it's good and not anything like mutton.

[MTWeatherman]

Versifier---Folks taste buds being different,the animals themselves being different from the way they were handled and what they eat etc, you'll get a wide variety of opinions on how various game tastes. For my tastes,I put moose at top,followed fairly closely by elk,whitetail a distant third and caribou somewhat behind that and antelope firmly anchoring last place. BruceB,rates caribou very high. For sausage and jerky,I find it hard to distinguish between em. Never tried bighorn sheep--I hear it's good and not anything like mutton.

I've eaten all of them and wouldn't argue with Carpetman's taste buds...in my case would put elk and moose in a virtual tie. Elk seem consistently good and some moose I've tried would rank below them...dependent on food I would guess. Haven't eaten enough caribou to give an honest opinion...just a couple of steaks given to me by an Alaskan hunter.

Antelope are extremely variable in that they eat a large variety of foods. Get a buck from sagebrush country and they're barely edible...supporting Carpetman's analysis. One feeding on grain ranks right up there with the best whitetail. I've taken many antelope and now mainly hunt areas close to grain fields.

Mule deer are much like antelope...from the grain fields they're good...equal to any whitetail. Get a big buck that's been browsing the conifers in the high country and its a different story.

I've eaten two bighorns...both rams...not too much opportunity as permits are hard to come by here. Guess some may like them but I would put them off the scale on the bottom. A buddy of mine got one in the 80s. His dog turned up his nose at it...my reaction was the same. I thought it might just have been a bad one but it was a relatively young ram. I lucked out and got one in the early 90s...big full grown ram. Smelled so bad cooking my wife wouldn't allow it in the kitchen...dark purple color and tough with a sickening almost sweet flavor. Gave some away...everyone wanted to try it...after the first package no one wanted anymore. I finally resorted to turning it into jerky. Beautiful ram though. Maybe its a developed taste.

I also lucked out in the draw and filled a mountain goat tag. Some say they're terrible. However, I'd put that one somewhere between a deer and a sagebrush antelope. It was reasonably edible.

[RugerFan]

[QUOTE=MTWeatherman]
I've eaten two bighorns...both rams...not too much opportunity as permits are hard to come by here. Guess some may like them but I would put them off the scale on the bottom. QUOTE]

I'm suprised to hear that. A looong time ago I killed a Dall ram in Alaska. The meat was outstanding! I would describe it as mild and sweet. I would have thought that bighorn would have been somewhat similar.

[versifier]

Thanks, I was interested in your general impressions about their relative flavors. I know that after many years of raising pigs and sheep, and of working as a professional chef, there are two factors to consider, all else being equal. First, diet is critical to flavor, something even more apparent with wild game whose diet can vary so much seasonally. Second, there's a reason they cut male meat animals. While not true with every species, intact males generally have a much stronger flavor and add a certain "air" to the kitchen while cooking. Meat from a boar can smell just like someone pissed into the campfire, and though the flavor isn't usually affected, after you've smelled it roasting for an hour or so, you don't have much appetite for it when it comes out of the oven. :shock: I'm told much the same is true for bears, but I've never been able to gag bear meat down even when I've been told it was properly cooked, so I don't hunt them. Older, uncut male sheep and goats are what gives mutton/chevon a bad name - they're tougher and the flavor is stronger, more "gamey" as the saying goes. I've eaten ewes over ten years old that were tasty and tender - the only way you could tell it wasn't spring lamb was if you saw how big the leg was on the platter. There was no way to tell once it was on your plate. I greatly enjoyed serving it several times to people who tried to preach to me all about how mutton was absolutely inedible. (I never suffer a fool easily, even when it's me.) It's true for whitetails, too, at least around here, but not to as great a degree. We treated rams like we do larger bucks - save the tenderloins and legs, grind the rest. The venison is good ground with some well-smoked bacon, too, and makes for better burgers. :-D

[waksupi]

I'd say my comparison to beef, would relate to the range beef from this part of the country, rather than the good grain finished stuff most everyone else gets to eat.

[waksupi]

We didn't have any luck tieing up an elk for my buddy yesterday, so I told him I would try to get him some meat today, as it is the last day of regular rifle season. Bow season continues for two weeks for does, and through mid- February for cow elk on the other side of the valley. I admit to being a back slider, as I had intended on hunting with the smoothbore or bow, but the weather conditions told me to take my trusty ol' .358 Winchester.
I got up before daylight this morning, to about four inches of fresh snow. Perfect hunting conditions for rutting bucks.
I went up the road about a mile from the cabin, and was seeing many fresh tracks in the snow. I parked along the road, and went across some FS land, onto some Plum Creek Timber land. I saw no tracks at all, and figured they hadn't moved back up in elevation yet. I got up to the ridge, and had a doe blow at me for about five minutes, that I never did see, as she was in some heavy brush across a small canyon. I moved on up the ridge, and saw a couple does feeding in a clearing, and watched them for a bit, to see if they would have company.
I then started following a fresh set of buck tracks, and went quite a ways, until I decided he was going to be in further than I cared to drag it.
I cut up through a saddle, and jumped a buck out of his bed. He took off down the mountain about a hundred yards, and stood there, trying to figure out what had spooked him. I put the sights on him, and squeezed one off. And I missed. Jacking in another, same thing, another miss. I sat down in the snow, took a careful bead, and shot again. Missed. But I did see the limb over his back move. I didn't have my glasses with me, so looking at the witness marks on my aperture sight did me no good. So, I held as low as possible on the chest. He went down.
I got down to him, and saw the last shot had hit him in the head, just in back of the eye, killing him instantly.
So, in the future, I will carry my glasses with me. What puzzles me, is how the sights got off so far. When I did get my glasses at the truck, the sights were WAY off.
On the way back to the truck, I, of course, saw a bigger buck. However, the one I shot was on a road that I could access from my neighbors place. and with my sled, it was a very easy recovery.
He ain't very big, and had no fat on him at all. I gave my buddy a call, and he came to my cabin after I had him skinned. He hauled him away, and was quite happy to have him.

[waksupi]

Another of my now famous head-cut -off shots.

[454PB]

Congrats Ric. It's amazing how many think you can't hunt with cast boolits. I once shot a nice 4 point buck with my Marlin 45/70 using a 500 grain Lee gas checked bullet. I first thought I had missed, I was shooting about 70 yards downhill into a coulee. I saw a big chunk of snow and dirt fly up behind the deer. I couldn't believe I had missed, so walked down to the bottom and found the deer piled up about 30 feet away in the heavy brush. That big flat nosed bullet had punched a 2" exit hole, and there were pieces of broken rib protruding out the wound.

My experience has been that wild game is best when cooled out and cut up FAST! I see guys hanging Elk for 2 or 3 weeks in their garage.

I see you got published in the latest "Guns" magazine letter to the editor!

[C1PNR]

Ric,
That looks like a good eating buck!

And aint it interesting how we can shoot a rifle, shotgun, handgun, bow, etc., but just can't seem to handle "shooting" with a camera! "Oh, dang! How'd I do THAT?"

Oh, well, beautiful looking country up there. I presume that's your cabin in the photo. Looks like a nice location, out of the wind and still right in the middle of things.

BTW, some of my friends and I are looking for a little bit of Montana country to buy and set up a hunting and fishing camp. However, that 6 digit price, BEFORE the decimal, is a little high for us Social Security retirees!;)

[waksupi]

454, when I have time, I do hang game for a week. I personally believe it tenderizes it a bit, and makes it easier to cut. I know I will get a lot of arguement on that one, but it is what I like to do. For instance, the elk I shjot last year, hung a week or more, and is very tender. The one from this year hung three days, and is definitely tougher.

Kid, them cameras are hard to get set up somewhere flat, where you can still see through them. I'd take more pictures, but my batteries always seem to go dead in the cold.

C1PNR, if you want a place like that, better forget NW Montana. I don't think there is any cheap land left, as far as I know. I'd be looking on the east side. All in all, better hunting and fishing over there, and much better prices.

[JDL]

Way to go Ric! The .358 is a wonderful caliber ain't it? It strange that multiple shots can be taken on some animals, while others head for the next county when the first shot is made. Several years ago, I took 4 shots at a scrawney whitetail before connecting on the last shot. He gave no indication of hearing the rifle report and kept on browsing, so I reasoned he was deaf.:-)
After field dressing him, I began looking and found all the limbs and small bushes I had hit between us. Bullets were deflected and never even came close to him, except the last one. -JDL