Remington Double Rifle

[SharpsShooter]

A friend of mine sent this link to me. He knows how I'd like to have a 45-70 double. :grin: :grin: :grin:

Anyone know anything about this bunch?? I'm sure it is a import, but what's the story?


http://www.spartangunworks.com/spr22.htm

[Denver]

I believe I read recently that these guns are made by Baikal(sp) which is a Russian manufacturer and are being sold under the Remington name. The Sparton Gunworks must be the middleman. Just saw an ad somewhere for the outside hammer coach guns for the CAS bunch. The double rifles are certainly an interesting item ain't they?

[9.3X62AL]

JUST what I needed to see, per Marie--affordable SxS 28 and 410 shotguns. I can't hit squat with the things, but they are pretty cool just the same.

[Oldfeller]

Yeah, I walked by the gun desk at Wal-Mart and they had a neat-looking vent rib mossberg pump .410 for $199.

Set my obcession off again -- I was pricing rifling broaches again ....

Oldfeller

[Bullshop]

We have had the Sparten double 45/70 on order from several distributers for six months and they are not available/do not exist yet. We have customers waiting! My theory's, 1 they are doing the shot guns first and they are here 2 they ran into trouble getting the barrels right and its takeing more labor than anticipated but they have already been advertised for $500(problem)

BIC/BS

[SharpsShooter]

but they are pretty cool just the same.


Can you envision...you are deep in the thick stuff...visibility is down to tag you're it distance...a noise...you hold your 45-70 double at the ready, two spare rounds between the fingers of your left hand...you pause, did i load solids this morning... time goes by and you stand there wondering if something big and hairy is going to burst out of the cover...a long pause and you know he is there...a sinister crashing wells up through the grass and without thought two twin feathers of flame erupt...grass and dirt rain down on you as you frantically drop two fresh 500gr ACWW cast solids in place of the empties that are pinging over your shoulder. But a follow up is not needed..the chipmonk is down.

Oops, Sorry guys I read too much Capstick as a kid.

:-D

[Oldfeller]

Did you know the British make a real fetish out of the .410 shotgun? Apparently it "gets a break" over there as not being very much of a dangerous type of shotgun, suitable for shire use as a rabbit & grouse gun. The Brits load .410 slugs that can go about 1,800 fps (and the Bakal people do even worse out of a steel cased reloadable hull) so a couple of .41 pistol slugs or a single .416 rifle bullet should be able to be driven up into our favorite 1,650 fsp speed zone with very low pressure out of a 3" plastic hull.

Nobody makes a rifled barrel for a .410 Mossberg and if they did it would literally cost as much as the gun does at Wal-mart. And the resulting gun wouldn't be very accurate at all, as it is no more accurate than a rifled mossberg 20 gage (not very).

Cost of a tap-through HSS broaching tool is pretty stiff, you'd take a crew of 10 crazy people all chipping in to be able to afford one. But they are available as custom work from 3 different broach specialty companies who make rifling broaches.

What twist would you use -- what do they use in a .416 Rigby?

Reality check -- are there 10 crazy people out there? no ... strike that ... nocheck nocheck nocheck .... bad idea, steel in the face bad idea,

And, what the heck WOULD you do with the rest of that 3" long hull? You do know there is a 9.3x74R case that if blown out straight with cream of wheat makes a 40,000 cup case suitable for your modified .410 rifle? Say 3 each .41 caliber pistol bullets stacked one on top of each other at say 1,650 fps.

Quick, somebody tell me how bad a .416 Rigby kicks again ......

help! .....

Oldfeller

[David R]

Oldfeller,

You trying to start a group buy? :)

Count me out.

Actually, a 71/2 lb 45-70? I always thought double rifles were heavy.

David

[Oldfeller]

see, kick the hummy out of your shoulder --- bad idea, bad idea ...

[SharpsShooter]

David,

Doubles usually are heavier, but a Ruger #1 is only 7lbs or so. I'd suspect the one we are looking at does not have good dense walnut stocks and is lighter as a result.

I'd like to see one up close to inspect the workmanship etc.

[9.3X62AL]

Being the proud (but battered......) owner of one such seven-pound Ruger #1 in 45-70, it really lets you know the primers functioned with the heavy loads it capable of firing. I view its light weight the same way curves and cliffs on a mountain road become a "default" speed limit.

6-month wait, Bullshop? Another Ruger XGI, maybe.

[waksupi]

One of my friends used to make double rifles, from shotguns. We would find good solid doubles, and buy some rifle barrel blanks from Orion, Bauska, Jones, or one of the other local barrel makers. Turn them to slip into the smooth bores, and do a bit of work towards regulating them, before Acraglassing them into place, and cutting the extractor in place. They were fairly heavy built on a 12 bore frame. A twenty bore makes a darn nice one for balance. Your point blank range was around 75 yards with the .45-70 chambering, which covers 95 % of your hunting in this area. Like a dumb ass, I let a friend talk me out of mine.

[omgb]

These are indeed Russian made. I've handled the shot guns and they are pretty good. Heavy and a tad clumsey but worth the money. The key to this puppy is that its barrels have adjustable regulation. The over and under uses a bridge between the barrels with a tensioning screw to adjust the POA. The thing looks ugly (IMHO). My guess is that if you laid that double on its side you would see that the barrels are not soldered togeter and that it uses the same ugly tensioner. Pedersoli mkes a beautiful double but, it runs around $3500. You get what you pay for.
R J Talley

[Bman]

I've lost the gun rag that I bought just to read the article on the 45-70 double rifle. If I remember that author was pretty impressed with it. NO suprise there but the pictures that went with it looked good as far as the muzzle end. Certainly since I have wanted a double rifle or cape gun the idea of a new manufacture rifle that could be operator regulated sounds good.

[BruceB]

Baikal-made guns have been available in Canada for many decades, but didn't appear much in the USA due to trade restrictions with the communist bloc. The same applied to Brnos and CZ guns...the Czech gummint was communist, and we could get their guns in Canada but not the USA.

It was even possible to buy Baikal SxS double HAMMER guns as wanted, in several gauges down to .410 bore. Single-shot shotguns and other types including match-grade .22 target pistols were also available at ridiculous prices (such as a wood-cased .22 semi-auto with about eight interchangeable sight blades and posts, two mags, variable weights, tools, and a BUNCH of spare parts in a cunning wooden parts box...for about $120!)

I own a Baikal-built TOZ-35 .22 Free Pistol, single-shot Martini dropping block, fitted oak case, MANY interchangeable sight elements, spare parts such as extractors, firing pins, springs etc, cleaning gear, all of which cost maybe $140 twenty or so years back. This identical model has been used on numerous occasions to win Olympic gold medals and World Championships in the hands of Russian and Iron-Curtain shooters. The generic Free Pistol is a hair-triggered .22 (mine trips at about two OUNCES, if that) with wrap-around grips, long barrel and extreme accuracy, fired slowfire (60 rounds in 2.5 HOURS) at a 1.5" ten-ring from fifty meters away....one-handed, naturally. It is a true masochist's game, because it feels so good when you finally stop! Free Pistols are the slingshot dragsters of handguns, good ONLY for this one narrow purpose...but oh, what wonderful devices they are...

Baikals are typically solid, un-imaginative, heavy and serviceable guns, and not very refined in design or manufacture. I believe the factory was the ONLY source of "civilian" guns for the shooters of USSR days, and as such they served well. IF Remington can get this act on the road, AND maintain some sort of quality control....I'd sure like to get a look at the double .45-70!

[omgb]

There was an article a few yeas ago about Baikal and the move to make an American market double. The key issue was teaching them to build the dang things with some sense of grace and style. I believe the similie implored was a comparison between a western fashion model and the Russian gal who was serving the tea at the marketing meeting. The Ruskies aksed what was wrong with the Baikal the way it was. The Americans compared the Baikal SxS as it was with the Russian woman and said Americans wanted something slimmer and sexier like a fashion model. The Ruskies got the picture immediately. They re-tooled and presto! the modern Baikal was born. I would assume the Remington is of that ilk. In fact, I would guess that it's built on the 20 GA frame. Man, I'd love to see some pictures. Any one got any?