DA revolver vs striker fired/DA auto

[sawinredneck]

Carry over from another thread.
I'm hearing it's "safer" to pocket carry a DA revolver than say a Glock in another thread. I'm not going to say either way, I carried a Glock 19 for years, holstered or "Mexican carry" with no issues, no AD's.
Years later with KS making carry legal, I decided it might be nice to have something small to throw in a pocket time to time. There are a few occasions I don't feel like/feel the need to carry my Delta Elite.
I bought a Ruger LCR .357, just for pocket carry and didn't think a thing about it needing a holster. FF a year later and we have a series of AD's, all from un-holstered handguns of various types. Well Mrs sawinredneck watches a news article about how this could all be avoided by putting the guns in holsters. She drags me off to the gun shop and we get a pocket holster to make her happy! Funny thing is, I rather like carrying it better this way! I forget the make and name, but will gladly provide if needed.
But what makes the striker fired that much more unsafe? To me at least, anything hits the trigger wrong it's a bad day no matter what you carry! I always carry my wallet and keys in my right pocket, unless there's a gun in there, then it's empty. One of the AD's here was a guy carrying in his sock, the gun went off as he adjusted it!
Im not trying to advocate anything either way, my wife made my decision for me, and I like it better, but what makes you think or feel, that one type of action is safer than another?
Please keep it civil, just a discussion, nothing more.

[LAH]

I carry a Ruger LCP which is a DA in a pocket holster & have no fear of it going off. My other carry gun is a S&W MP C which is striker fired. I carry in in a slide or mexican & have no fear of it going off. I carried a DA revolver many years, a couple different ways & had no fear of it going off. There's a lot of "what ifs" out there but I see them all safe if properly carried & handled.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

d ...

[Petrol & Powder]

Pocket holsters do a few things:
They protect and shield the trigger
They help to keep the gun positioned correctly in the pocket
They break up the outline of the gun

All of those things are good things.

As for accidental discharges with a DA revolver vs. a striker fired auto - there's a little more in play there. For starters, a DA revolver (or a DAO revolver) is a bit closer to a DAO semi-auto pistol than it is to a striker fired pistol. A DA revolver or a DAO pistol requires a fairly long and heavy trigger pull to fire the weapon. A striker fired pistol, such as a Glock, has a partially pre-loaded striker and requires a shorter/lighter trigger pull to fire the weapon. The weight and distance are more than a SA pistol but not as much as a DA pistol or revolver.
Both systems are COMPLETELY safe but they are not the same. I have no problems with the Glock system but I would be reluctant to carry one without a holster that covered the trigger (Mexican Carry). The amount of pressure on the trigger and the distance the trigger must move to fire that type of weapon is considerably different than the force and distance of travel needed to fire a DA revolver or DAO pistol with a hammer.

I've carried a DAO snubnose in a pocket holster for over 20 years. I'm totally comfortable with that mode of carry but I use a pocket holster for the reasons listed at the top of this post.

It's important to remember that the force on the trigger may not come from something like your finger or car keys in the same pocket. Anything that moves that trigger far enough could result in the gun discharging. One of the likely scenarios is something outside the pocket moving the trigger such as when grappling with an opponent (not all encounters require deadly force).

There is no downside to using a good pocket holster.

[LAH]

They help to keep the gun positioned correctly in the pocket.

This cannot be overstated.

[FergusonTO35]

I always use a holster to carry, don't know why anyone would not.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I holster carry, but the holster is minimal. Also, my kind of pistol is probably not your "cup of tea". As far as the safety difference between a small revolver and a small semi-auto carried in a pocket, there probably isn't much practical difference. What difference there is probably lies in the cartridge the gun uses and the type of ammunition carried.

[CDRGlock]

The trigger pull of a revolver is much heavier and longer than a striker fired pistol. That may be the added safety of an XDM/XD as there are two requirements, pulling the trigger and the grip safety has to be depressed.

I have pocket carried many pistols in a holster. It's all about protecting the trigger guard and breaking up the gun outline.


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[sawinredneck]

The trigger pull of a revolver is much heavier and longer than a striker fired pistol. That may be the added safety of an XDM/XD as there are two requirements, pulling the trigger and the grip safety has to be depressed.

I have pocket carried many pistols in a holster. It's all about protecting the trigger guard and breaking up the gun outline.


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Ok, but how much force is needed between the two in a pocket? Have you stuck both in a pocket to measure force to fire while unloaded?
I fought for years against "cocked and locked". I swore the 1911 was the most overrated *** there was to buy! I built a 1911 45acp that I sold to a friend, but I still have my DE and carry it often!

[sawinredneck]

Great input buy everyone, seriously, thank you all!
For a while, I "Mexican carried" a Colt Annaconda 6", I'm still bitter that gun was stolelen!
This isn't about right or wrong,good gun or bad gun, just opinions.

[Lefty Red]

This cannot be overstated.

This!!!!!

It's not fun trying to reach down and "feel" for your weapon in your pocket!i like the Desantis Super Fly or Remora for pocket holsters. I like the Clip too. Used one for my Kel Tec and LCP 380s. But those are DAO pistols. Wouldn't do that with a SA ones.


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[Bigslug]

The safety is hopefully between your ears, not between your hands.

"Mexican carry" is a fair expedient, but as a daily approach would seem to indicate a deficiency in the former. Holsters were designed to carry guns; prison wisdom to the contrary, your butt crack wasn't.

That said, a lot of the essentially pre-WWII firearm systems we still rely on came from a time of simpler logistics - no internet, no "tactical" sporting goods stores, no relaxed CCW laws driving the market. There weren't necessarily many readily available holsters for a lot of concealable guns and pockets tended to be bigger, and pretty much everybody had and wore belts. It's also worth noting that the concept of "Master Grip" with your trigger finger outside the trigger guard and along the side of the gun until ready to shoot is a relatively new development. Most folks walked around with their fingers on the trigger. All of this was typically factored in, and the autos had safeties, and the revolvers had either DA triggers or half-cock notches to render them relatively impervious to keys, shirt-tails, etc...getting inside the trigger guard.

The first striker fired gun on the market was intended as a full size, military sidearm. Pretty sure that Gaston Glock was thinking rigid flap holsters as he was working. Turned out to be a great system that a lot of people wanted in a smaller package. Great idea. . .until it ran into the old, entrenched modes of carry. It's not that the striker-fired, trigger-safety guns themselves are unsafe, but not factoring their mechanisms into how they're carried can, and often has, led to missing toes and buttocks, and no doubt, the occasional testicle.

[charlie b]

I do not consider any one type to be less or more safe. The safeties put on most pistols are adequate for the job if the person does their job.

Some exceptions, IMHO. Example, 1903 Colt. Hammer gun with everything enclosed. Carry locked and cocked? I did not. I never liked the safety setup on that one so carried it without a round in chamber. But, I carry a 1911 cocked with safety on all the time. Mine happens to have the extra firing pin block so one step "up" from my old 1911 with just the sear blocked. Have never come close to an AD with either.

Springfield XD. Great safety system. But, I didn't trust myself with it. The trigger was so light I was afraid I'd touch it off when I really did not intend to. I probably should have gotten the version with an external safety. NOTE!!! This was MY problem, not the gun. Again, operator issues not gun issues.

[Char-Gar]

Any striker fired autopistol whether carried on the belt or in the pocket should be in a holster that covers the trigger. Period!!!

Any handgun carried in the pocket should be in a holster that covers the trigger. Period

I am of the mind that a good DA revolver is safer than any autopistol. There is no slide to rack, no safety to engage or disengage and no magazine to worry about. In a DA sixgun you load the cylinder, point the gizmo and shoot.

For military and police use, the autopistol is the way to go. For civilian personal defense carry, not so much. This is not to say that autopistols don't have a place in civilian personal defense carry, but they are more complex and consequently can be mishandled with greater ease.

[Rainier]

I'm confused but that doesn't take much - I've carried both snub nose 38/357s and striker fired autos in my pocket with and without a holster and never worried about "safety". What I did find was that a holster keeps the boolit/bullet launcher in the same position and readily accessible - very important consideration. As far as "safety" I still hear the eloquent words of an old friend that runs range classes... "Keep your booger picker off the bang switch till your ready to fire." I'm not convinced that the Solo in my front pocket today is any more or less safe then the J-Frame I once carried. The real question would seem to be; The boolit launcher is nothing more then a tool - how "safe" is the craftsman?

[Char-Gar]

I'm confused but that doesn't take much - I've carried both snub nose 38/357s and striker fired autos in my pocket with and without a holster and never worried about "safety". What I did find was that a holster keeps the boolit/bullet launcher in the same position and readily accessible - very important consideration. As far as "safety" I still hear the eloquent words of an old friend that runs range classes... "Keep your booger picker off the bang switch till your ready to fire." I'm not convinced that the Solo in my front pocket today is any more or less safe then the J-Frame I once carried. The real question would seem to be; The boolit launcher is nothing more then a tool - how "safe" is the craftsman?

That is of course true. It is the operator that renders the device unsafe. However unsafe operators abound in this world. We have an entire multi-billion personal injury industry built around the negligence of human beings. A trip to any public shooting range will give you shivering fits, when you see how much of the public handles firearms. I do not assume that the population of this board is a notch above the public in safe gun handling.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I like my gun holstered but for impromptu carry I'll stick a pistol in my back pocket. I packa Glock. My wife an XD. I would probably have got an XD but they don't make it in a 10 mm. I like the grip safety. Works great but doesn't have to be remembered. !

[Geezer in NH]

A striker fired pistol has the firing pin all ready fully cocked, ready to go when the trigger is pulled after a small trigger block is moved to fire.

A double action pistol or revolver has a hammer that must be pulled all the way to cock a hammer and release the hammer.

Some semi-auto pistols also have a manual safety that must be manually moved to unsafe before the actual trigger pull and release of the hammer fore the gun to fire.

A partially cocked striker fired must have a safety manually compressed and the trigger manually puled to finish cocking the striker and releasing it to fire.

Some pistols need the manual safety to be released before the trigger can be pulled to release the hammer from a full cock to fire the pistol.

Ask yourself what is best for you and what one fires when I drop the gun, which one is safer.

The Glock haters will never pick the one that does not fire on dropping or when nothing mechanical fails [as all will] They will never be happy it seems without the take it off the manual safety [that has proven to fail in the past] [Glock's do not cock fully and fire unless YOU let the trigger get pulled all the way]

I carry a Glock, I also walk and chew gum, I keep my finger out of the trigger guard and keep anything from going into it. It does take attention and sense but after many years guarding the open carried when in uniform it comes as second nature.
That comes from repeated action forming a habit that is always watched to keep safe.

HOWVER you must decide what your able to do.

[rintinglen]

A striker fired pistol generally has a 5-7 lb trigger pull. A DA revolver has a trigger pull at least 3 lbs heavy, in many cases it is 4-5 lbs heavier. Further, the DA revolver pull is usually longer. No problem determining why one has more loud unwanted noises than the other.

[Walkingwolf]

I carry what I feel like carrying, others should too. As far as Glocks I own two, once owned three, they are the least carried guns in my safe. I do not like the grip, don't feel the need to have a truckload of cartridges, and certainly do not have the ego. If you want to carry a Glock carry one, if you don't there is no shame in what you carry. One thing I have noticed with Glocks it is always the experts that eventually have ND's. Sometimes cocky equals Glock leg.

[Geezer in NH]

Glad you know your limitations carry what you feel comfortable with seeing ego is a problem for you.

Only PO I know that shot himself in the leg was in the 80's and that was a SP in MA with a S&W .357 3 inch. Even had a holster when it was done.

[charlie b]

That's like saying a DA revolver is dangerous cause you can fire it without disabling a safety.

Safeties are meant to make the gun not fire UNTIL you pull the trigger.

So, to me, a safety in the trigger serves the purpose.

[Loudenboomer]

I like to pocket a j frame 342 and a Taurus view in various pocket holsters. I feel an extra layer of safety with the pocket holster griping the cylinder.
If the cylinder cannot turn on a hammerless the chances of an AD are reduced to nill.

[Walkingwolf]

Glad you know your limitations carry what you feel comfortable with seeing ego is a problem for you.

Only PO I know that shot himself in the leg was in the 80's and that was a SP in MA with a S&W .357 3 inch. Even had a holster when it was done.

You must live in a vacuum, numerous LEO's have shot themselves with their Glocks in the last few years. A DEA agent after declaring he was the only expert in the room. A police chief twice shot himself with his Glock. Another chief killed his wife with a ND with his Glock. The officer with the viral video that had a ND in an elevator with a Glock. The incidents are endless, it is not the Glocks fault, just that some people are not competent to carry a Glock. But when it boils down there are still more incidents with Glocks.

[Rainier]

Walkingwolf (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?41419-Walkingwolf)
...it is not the Glocks fault, just that some people are not competent to carry a Glock.

Exactly! It has very little to do with Glock's and mostly to do with "LEO's" - the most undertrained group of citizens in this country are sadly, law enforcement - period. Like it or not, 90% of cops are a danger to themselves and society regardless of the firearm they carry because they are either; A) too lazy or B) too ignorant (ill-trained) of what it takes to be a gun slinger.
Now with that said, I agree, it is probably easier to have an ND with a Glock then a... pick your poison but... in my opinion, cops are sadly, poor examples to use when suggesting one firearm is more dangerous then another.
As you read this, keep in mind, that my opinion and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

[Walkingwolf]

Exactly! It has very little to do with Glock's and mostly to do with "LEO's" - the most undertrained group of citizens in this country are sadly, law enforcement - period. Like it or not, 90% of cops are a danger to themselves and society regardless of the firearm they carry because they are either; A) too lazy or B) too ignorant (ill-trained) of what it takes to be a gun slinger.
Now with that said, I agree, it is probably easier to have an ND with a Glock then a... pick your poison but... in my opinion, cops are sadly, poor examples to use when suggesting one firearm is more dangerous then another.
As you read this, keep in mind, that my opinion and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
Undertrained? Most states require at least 40 hours of training before a LEO can carry a gun on duty. Then some are required to train once a month, they are far better trained than the average citizen Glock owner, not including gun people like here. The point that has been pointed out is it is NOT the untrained with a Glock, it is the trained, and the more trained the more likely they will have a ND.

There are two factors with light switch guns without a safety, the more they are handled the more chance of a ND. And that training brings comfort, and comfort numbs that gut feeling that makes sane people fear getting shot, or screwing up. A good many Glock owners just are full of themselves, we see it on this very forum at times. It is like the Bren Ten and Sonny Crocket, or the model 29 and Inspector Callahan. They believe they are special because they own a Glock, and because of that they fondle their Glock in their fantasy. A gun is not a fantasy, it is a dangerous tool, but you will never convince Glock fanbois of that.

A safety is called a safety because if they function properly they will prevent a discharge during a brain fart, otherwise they never would have been needed. The Glocks safety is nothing more than an advertising gimmick that makes the problem worse with idiots, the ones full of themselves. The grandmother that buys a Glock, never gets any training, puts it in her draw is unlikely to have an ND, but she is not full of herself. It is not the training, it is not the Glock, it is people who play with Glocks like children.

If you can't keep your gun in a holster, in a safe, or even in a drawer, and must fondle it, you have no business with a Glock. ANY gun will not have a ND when it is not being handled, some are more prone to ND's by their very design, and that is a Glock.

[Rainier]

Most LEO's Undertrained? Yes - in my opinion, with that said there are some who take it seriously.
Very simple if you "Keep your booger picker off the bang switch till your ready to fire" it doesn't matter what gun you choose.

[Walkingwolf]

Incident after incident it is those who consider themselves trained who have ND's. DEA is extremely well trained, yet several have had ND's one became viral youtube fodder. The problem with the keeping the booger hook off the trigger mentality is flawed. The human body, and nervous system has certain responses that are unavoidable, add to that human error, and a gun with literally NO thought in design to human error, and you have ND's. More ND's than any other weapon.

Get scared, highly stressed, and the hands form fists, not extend fingers. Fall, and the hands clench automatic. Shock, by static, or by sound will cause muscle reflex, and clenching. Glock perfection means the person holding the Glock must be perfect. Only gods are perfect, the rest of us are prone to human error. I use that to my advantage, instead of thinking I am perfect, I know I could screw up so I take every precaution to avoid it. Most people who get trained do not do that, they think they are trained(perfect). Hence the problem with the Glock design, the attitude of many Glock owners otherwise known as GFBS(Glock Fan Boy Syndrome).

[bob208]

neither one is better then the other. if you are boob or reckless then you run a good chance of shooting yourself or some one else.

[charlie b]

^^^^this

If all those LEO's had been carrying a 1911, revolver or any other gun 99% of them would still have had an AD. There are a lot of people out there who just have to show off their Glock, so, you get AD's.

A brother-in-law had an AD with his Glock. It would have happened if he had any other type of gun, he just happens to like Glocks. And, yes, he was clearing it and got the sequence wrong. Pull mag, pull slide, check chamber, pull trigger. Not pull mag then pull trigger. Well, OK, it might not have happened with a revolver, but, I would not bet on that either :)

[Walkingwolf]

^^^^this

If all those LEO's had been carrying a 1911, revolver or any other gun 99% of them would still have had an AD. There are a lot of people out there who just have to show off their Glock, so, you get AD's.

A brother-in-law had an AD with his Glock. It would have happened if he had any other type of gun, he just happens to like Glocks. And, yes, he was clearing it and got the sequence wrong. Pull mag, pull slide, check chamber, pull trigger. Not pull mag then pull trigger. Well, OK, it might not have happened with a revolver, but, I would not bet on that either :)

Not all guns require pulling the trigger to strip them.[smilie=b: This is the dumbest design ingredient that without a doubt has led to some ND's that would not have happened with other guns. Also the many ND's that took place because a piece of string got caught in the trigger guard can't happen when there is a functional safety that is on.

How many of you would carry a 1911 condition 0? If you answer no, then there is your answer to the lunacy of Glock's design. Glocks must stay holstered, they must be cleared over a clearing barrel, no gun should be waved around like a toy, but especially a Glock! The flipper is no safety, it is a marketing gadget, Glocks have no safety to prevent a human error, which is why safeties were put there in the first place.

Colt put the safety on the 1911 for one reason, because the US Calvary made it a sticking point. Why? Because troopers on horseback were likely while riding to grasp the gun tightly, resulting in friendly fire. The Colt SAA had no safety, it was not needed, if a trooper grasped the revolver tightly it would not go off unless the hammer was cocked. The 1910 which is exactly the same as the 1911 in design had NO thumb safety, it was rejected. Glock was again rejected, and they are crying like little girls, all because they would not listen to their customer, the US Army. Even though I own two Glocks it is the most over hyped handgun that does not even come close to perfection. Certainly there is no perfect gun carrier, if one claims to be they are the most dangerous person with a gun outside a criminal. People make mistakes, deny that, and you are likely to become the very person you point fingers at.

This IS a arrogant Glock carrier, one that most likely made the same remarks that are made here. Are you professional enough? Or are you(general you) full of yourself like this agent?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP6UvNgbqIA

[Walkingwolf]

If you are truly serious about not having an ND, buy a training gun. Otherwise if you fondle your gun you are an accident waiting to happen. I handle guns everyday, but not firearms, I carry firearms. The guns I handle are training guns. By the grace of God, and my fear of having an ND I have not had one. It is clear some do not fear having an ND, and they pronounce how perfect they are, they are the ones I fear the most of having one. The record is pretty clear most ND's that are reported are from so called gun experts, mostly Glock owners. Glock perfection is a misleading advertising claim.

[jmort]

There is far more danger in re-holstering/re-pocketing a handgun. Don't just stuff it back in, in condition white. The video linked above shows this in spades

[Walkingwolf]

There is far more danger in re-holstering/re-pocketing a handgun. Don't just stuff it back in, in condition white. The video linked above shows this in spades

There was no need for him to take it out in the first place, he could have used a prop gun instead. He should have used a prop gun. I am amazed at the firearms instructors who use real REAL guns for demonstration, they occasionally shoot a student. IIRC the FBI academy uses props for training not on the firing line. Personally I would have had a poster of a firearm for the purposes of making the point he was trying to make.

It is kinda stupid to try to make a point to children to not touch firearms, while touching a real firearm. Irony!

[Mytmousemalibu]

My little S&W 442 rides in my right front pants pocket every single day, (its the only thing in that pocket too) it goes everywhere with me. It carries do well it becomes oblivious to me that I even have it. That ladies and gents, is comfortable carry! It resides in a pocket holster, specifically a Sticky Holster. I really like it, its affordable, it keeps the gun in place, protects it well, positions it well, is comfortable and it has never come out on practice drawing drills. It works as advertised. I wouldn't hesitate a second to recommend one to anyone who wants to pocket carry.