Resizing the 9mm??

[Whitespider]

There ain't really a "brass" forum so I'm posting where I'm comfortable.
My son has decided he wants to reload for his 9mm Luger, and purchased a Lee carbide 4-die set.
The effort to full-length resize the brass is more than any other pistol/revolver brass I've ever done (with a carbide die)... a lot more. On a handful of them I actually displaced brass and created a sharp ridge where the case stopped entering the die.
Is this normal with the 9mm?? Or should I be lookin' at a die problem??
I never thought about it, but I have a .38 ACP carbide resizing die I could have tried... but all the empty brass is resized now.
*

[jmort]

As you know it is tapered not straight. I lube all brass I size even with carbide dies.

[Moleman-]

What was the brass originally shot in? Never had a 9mm case so swollen it left a ring or started cutting into the case. Wonder if the chamber the brass was fired in was oversized, blowback and opening up early or if the carbide insert on the die wasn't beveled. Loaded many 9mm luger over the past 30 years with carbide dies and never lubed any of them.

[farmerjim]

+1 on lube even with carbide dies. I use just a dab of hornady one shot, if out I use lanolin.

[pjames32]

Just loaded a couple hundred 9mm. Did not lube, but the cases were deprimed and cleaned before loading. The case does have a bit of taper.

[runfiverun]

put the old measurer on them.
I have had a case or two that took some handle pressure to size but not enough to put a ring on the case.

[308Jeff]

I have the Lee Deluxe set for 9mm as well. Lube greatly reduces the effort, but loaded thousands before adding lube. Never had any problems like that. Sounds like you might have a die issue.

[tazman]

I don't use lube on any pistol cases when using a carbide sizing die. By the same token I have never had an issue that resembles yours.
Hard to believe a chamber is so oversize that it would give such results. You may have a die problem.
I use a Lee 4 die set to reload my 9mm. Thousands done without problems.

[Hogdaddy]

I have the Lee Deluxe set for 9mm as well. Lube greatly reduces the effort, but loaded thousands before adding lube. Never had any problems like that. Sounds like you might have a die issue.

^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^
H/D

[Bzcraig]

I don't use lube on any pistol cases when using a carbide sizing die. By the same token I have never had an issue that resembles yours.
Hard to believe a chamber is so oversize that it would give such results. You may have a die problem.
I use a Lee 4 die set to reload my 9mm. Thousands done without problems.

I'm with Tazman.....

[reloader28]

I've ran into an occasional one that is stiff. But this sounds to me more like a die problem. Is it possible the die is down too far? Maybe raise it up a 1/4 to 1/2 turn and see what happens.

[hermans]

Have sized thousands of 9mm's with my Dillon die, no lube, no problem.
Just had a problem with a under sized 222 Hornady die, left a ridge at the bottom as described here in the OP. Gave it back to the dealer and got a set of Redding dies, problem solved.....so it could be the sizer die that is too small.

[Whitespider]

Thanks guys.
Yeah, I'm thinking a die problem also. The brass I was running through it was mixed head stamps, some fired in the boy's gun, some range pick ups. None resized easily, but some required considerable force on the handle. I do have the die adjusted to make contact with the shell holder, I could try backing that out just a little... but really, to me, the force required feels like too much as soon as the case mouth starts into the die.

Well, there ain't any more cases to play with at this time, they've all been resized.
Maybe next time I'll try my .38 ACP carbide resizer.
*

[Boolseye]

I agree, die is out of spec. I've resized thousands of 9mm cases, range pick up, my reloads, once fired...never had any issue, no lube. same die set as yours.

[trapper9260]

I re size a load of 9mm Luger my self .But I have look at one time the size of a 9mm mac. I see there cases was bigger.because I seen that you can use 9mm luger for to make 9mm macs. That might be the case also if some of the brass was pick up at the range or other place. If all is 9mm luger then it could be the die. Just thinking.I do lube all my cases no matter what.

[Whitespider]

Oh... as far as lubing the cases??
I reload something well over a dozen pistol and revolver cartridges using carbide resizing dies, I've never used any lube or seen any need for it. The whole reason I pay the extra for carbide is so I don't have to mess around with lubing cases.

I have reloading dies from RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Redding, Herters, Hollywood Gun Shop, and Lee. Of the bunch, Lee dies are my least favorite. I know some guys swear by them... but... the only brand that has given me trouble is Lee, and the troubles have been many. A .357 Magnum carbide resizer would not size some brands of cases enough, a jacketed bullet would fall into the case. A .38-40 resizer would not set the shoulder back far enough and I ended up needing to remove .020 off the bottom of the die. I broke the "unbreakable" decapping pin on the first .30-06 case I resized. The short, stubby "powder through" expanders used in the pistol/revolver dies are worthless (in my opinion), especially with cast boolits. And now there's this (probable) problem with the 9mm carbide die.

I believe I'm done with Lee dies... the savings ain't worth the frustration.
*

[Lloyd Smale]

ive loaded MANY thousand 9mm using lee dies. Never used lube and never seen where it took any more effort then any other pistol caliber. My guess is you have a rough or out of spec die. I load 9mm progressively like I do all handgun rounds. I'm surely not going to fool with lube and have to tumble it off.
I don't use lube on any pistol cases when using a carbide sizing die. By the same token I have never had an issue that resembles yours.
Hard to believe a chamber is so oversize that it would give such results. You may have a die problem.
I use a Lee 4 die set to reload my 9mm. Thousands done without problems.

[tazman]

Oh... as far as lubing the cases??
I reload something well over a dozen pistol and revolver cartridges using carbide resizing dies, I've never used any lube or seen any need for it. The whole reason I pay the extra for carbide is so I don't have to mess around with lubing cases.

I have reloading dies from RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Redding, Herters, Hollywood Gun Shop, and Lee. Of the bunch, Lee dies are my least favorite. I know some guys swear by them... but... the only brand that has given me trouble is Lee, and the troubles have been many. A .357 Magnum carbide resizer would not size some brands of cases enough, a jacketed bullet would fall into the case. A .38-40 resizer would not set the shoulder back far enough and I ended up needing to remove .020 off the bottom of the die. I broke the "unbreakable" decapping pin on the first .30-06 case I resized. The short, stubby "powder through" expanders used in the pistol/revolver dies are worthless (in my opinion), especially with cast boolits. And now there's this (probable) problem with the 9mm carbide die.

I believe I'm done with Lee dies... the savings ain't worth the frustration.
*

If my experience with Lee dies had paralleled yours, I would be down on Lee dies as well. Sometimes things just don't work out like they should and you need to work through it.
I have had issues with other brands of dies but to this date none with Lee. Choose whichever brand of equipment you feel comfortable with.
Confidence in your equipment is important.

[psweigle]

I use carbide dies without lubing, EXCEPT for 30 carbine. I have to agree that the die is out of sorts. Shouldn't need that much effort.

[garym1a2]

I just spray Hornady one shot on mine to make the press run smoother. I load 9mm, 40SW and 45acp. 40 is the one I get oversized brass.

[Larry Gibson]

Not a good idea to try the 38 ACP die, it is a straight wall case and the die is too small for the 9mm.

What press are you using?

I too have loaded a couple thousand 9mm with the Lee dies w/o problems. My guess is the range pick ups are the probably the problem.

Larry Gibson

[Herb in Pa]

I used to segregate my 9mm brass into 2 groups, one for my MP40 and the other for the rest of the 9mm's. The sub gun being a blowback would expand the brass at the base....it would still chamber in the MP40 but in nothing else. A company named EGW has an undersized Lee Carbide die that will resize the brass to normal specs.

[Whitespider]

Yeah, you're right Larry, I just was checking .38 ACP dimensions and that wouldn't be the die to use.
I'm using a Lee Challenger single stage press, the same press I use for all pistol/revolver cases.
I use a RCBS cast iron press for rifle cartridges.

I also measured one of the resized cases and the die is sizing them to minimum SAAMI specification... and I do mean minimum. The case mouth measures .373, and just ahead of the web (where the die stops) measures .385 inch. I looked at the die and it appears there isn't much of a bevel at the entry point... more like a corner. I believe I'll try polishing a more "rounded" entry point and back the die off a bit next time. The plan is to use cast boolits (no mold yet) so I certainly don't need to resize to minimum specs just to then expand the mouth back out. I'm thinking I'll modify a RCBS .38/.357 expander plug, or maybe use a Lyman M-die plug for expanding the case mouth.
*

[gpidaho]

Before resizing any range brass I've picked up, I first deprime and clean them. This so I can scrap the one's with weak tension on the primer. Next I run all range brass of 9X19 or 40 S&W through the Lee bulge buster. This sorts out the out of spec brass, most of which has been fired in guns with unsupported chambers, then on to full length sizing. I never lube brass sized in carbide dies for strait wall pistol cases. Gp

[jmort]

"I never lube brass sized in carbide dies for strait wall pistol cases. "

9mm is not a straight wall case
I get that you can avoid lube with carbide dies, just a choice people make one way or the other.
I am pro lube on everything. Way less stress all around, but more mess.

"Next I run all range brass of 9X19 or 40 S&W through the Lee bulge buster"

This makes sense. Lot of not fully supported chambers out there, glock etc

[6622729]

Can be a die issue but could be a oversize gun chamber issue as well. My brass does not deform as you describe. Add me to the list of Lee Carbide die users in 9mm. No lube, no issues. 9mm does take more force than any of the straight wall handgun calibers.

[mdi]

A couple trouble shooting hints; first measure. Any time there is a fit problem or extra force is needed to process brass, measure the offending cases with micrometers. Is the case much oversize? Second, sort the brass by headstamp. Is the problem associated with one brand of brass? Visually inspect every case before you start processing, some may be bulged from hot loads or sloppy chambers (I can't remember any "Glock smiles" on 9mm brass, but it's possible). Visually inspect your dies, but in 30 years I've not found an out of spec. die. Bad dies would be bad 100% of the time. Be methodical 'cause a "shotgun approach" is nuttin' better than a WAG...

[jmort]

I looked around, the Glock 9mm chamber is not at the root of the problem anymore than any other 9mm chamber

[gwpercle]

My solution to the tapered case 9 mm was a steel CH4D sizing die , its tapered !
A little Lee case lube, mixed with alcohol and sprayed on takes care of lubing....not a deal breaker in my opinion.
Gary

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive loaded 100s of thousands of pistol rounds of every caliber. Tons of 9mm and have used a few different brand die and even a Dillon square deal. Only problems ive had are a few times I ran into the "glock belly" brass. don't even know that it actually was shot in a glock. I buy nothing but once fired brass. If you cant load 9mm or any other pistol brass with carbide dies without lube theres something wrong with your dies. I load progressively and I'm not about to retumble my brass after sizing to get lube off. Before I did that id buy another set of dies. I like lee handgun dies as much as any brand but that said ive had both lee and lyman dies that weren't right out of the box. Last set of bad lees were a set for my Beowulf. Contacted lee and they sent me a new sizer within a week that worked fine. Granted there not carbide but the point is if you have to use lube to get smooth operation out of your press something isn't right. Why not fix the problem and then you can use the dies the way they were designed to be used. I guess where I differ from some is when I sit down and load pistol rounds its nothing to load a 1000 at a crack. I guess if your loading 50 or a 100 you can fart around with lubing and tumbling. Me id rather shoot then load.

[eveready]

I think Herb in Pa has the answer to your problem. I think some of your brass was shot in a subgun, They are notorious for expanding brass more than normal.

eveready

[bedbugbilly]

I use the Lee 4 die set as well for 9mm and all I use is mixed headstamp "range brass" - never had an issue with my Lee 9mm FL carbide die. What is your FL die marked/stamped? Sounds to me like either a mistake was made and the wrong FL die was put in the set or the FL die is defective. I load on a Lee 4 hole turret and it takes very little pressure on the handle to size a 9mm casing.

As far as using a .380 ACP die for doing it - bad idea. Call Lee and send the FL die back and ask for a replacement - something "ain't right".

[308Jeff]

I get that you can avoid lube with carbide dies, just a choice people make one way or the other.
I am pro lube on everything. Way less stress all around, but more mess.




I'm in the same school.

I use lanolin/alcohol lube on everything. The press operates much smoother, it takes all of 30 seconds to lube a few hundred cases, and 3 minutes in the tumbler with corncob to get the loaded rounds cleaned up.

[Lloyd Smale]

you must be using a different lanolin lube then I do because it takes at least a hour in the tumbler to clean it off my brass. Add to that that tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets. Kind of reminds me of a gun that needs soft lead to bump up because its out of spec. If I have a defective gun I sell it or fix it. I don't put a bandaid on it. If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced.
I'm in the same school.

I use lanolin/alcohol lube on everything. The press operates much smoother, it takes all of 30 seconds to lube a few hundred cases, and 3 minutes in the tumbler with corncob to get the loaded rounds cleaned up.

[lightman]

I have sized a lot of 9 mm's, in both RCBS and Dillon dies with no problems. I don't remember any extra effort being required on the press handle. I've sized both with and without lube and the lube does make it easier but also adds a clean up step to your process. I would contact Lee, as it sure sounds like something ain't right.

[jmort]

"If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres (sic) something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced."

No one mentioned having problems sizing pistol brass except the OP.
Those are some, myself included, who mentioned that they put case lube on all brass when sizing, carbide or not. That is a choice. That you will not accept that others do it differently than you do seems to be your modus operandi. Why do you care what other people do??? That you can size unlubed brass with carbide dies dose not mean that you have to do it that way. Common sense would tell anyone that there will be less stress placed on the brass, dies, and press with lube. Some people choose to get postsecondary education and some do not. That is a choice. You keep making the same nonsense point. You do it your way and others will do as they see fit.

[jmort]

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RE: CASE LUBEFebruary 20th, 2017 at 8:55am
With straightwall handgun cartridges, the primary advantages to lubing the cases are reduced effort to resize, and because of that, increased production rate. A carbide size die on a straightwall handgun cartridge has a sufficiently lowered friction coefficient that cases won't stick in the die. A little bit of lube is nice, especially if you intend to load a large quantity at one sitting.
Bottleneck cases must be lubed, even with carbide dies. Otherwise, the case will stick.

[308Jeff]

you must be using a different lanolin lube then I do because it takes at least a hour in the tumbler to clean it off my brass. Add to that that tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets. Kind of reminds me of a gun that needs soft lead to bump up because its out of spec. If I have a defective gun I sell it or fix it. I don't put a bandaid on it. If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047_Tumble_live_ammo_Tumbler_Oandapos__thruth_E XTREME_edition__200hour_torture_test__UPDATE__fire d_rounds_in_OP.html

[dragon813gt]

Add to that that tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder

This is one of those rumors that persist for some reason. All factory ammo is tumbled before it's boxed up. There was either an article or thread about this. They tumbled ammo for hundreds of hours and had high magnification, microscope, pictures of the kernels. Nothing changed after hundreds of hours of tumbling. I believe they were shot across a chrono as well. Tumbling for an hour to remove lube isn't going to change anything.

[Whitespider]

I've done some more investigating, examining, measuring, and whatnot.
I believe 95% of the problem was... ummm... well... operator error :oops:

I was resizing mixed headstamps, several different headstamps. Some were range pick-ups, some were fired in my son's two pistols, some fired in his buddy's pistol, and some fired in a gun belonging to a visiting family member a couple years back. The cases with "F-C" headstamp resized noticeably easier than most others, those with "WCC" and "WIN" headstamps required more effort. The "R-P" headstamps required an effort somewhere between those, and the smattering of other headstamps varied with some requiring even more effort.

First of all, I've never resized tapered pistol cases before so I followed the Lee instructions for setting up the die... which is basically setting the die so the shellholder makes firm contact. Now, I don't do that with any other resizing die regardless of the instruction; I usually screw the die in until it contacts the shellholder and than back it off a ½ to ¾ turn (talking strictly pistol/revolver cases here).
So I started measuring case wall thickness using a not-very-precise method... a standard-jaw caliper... starting at the mouth and progressing down into the case. What I learned, especially on the cases requiring the most effort, the die is resizing where the case wall thickens/hardens/transitions into case web... and it's attempting to size it close to minimum SAAMI specifications. That ain't really necessary, the web was not bulged on any of the cases that I could see; it's just that the case head and web forward of the extractor groove ain't at minimum specs on most cases... and the thicker web extends further up the case wall depending on headstamp/brand/lot/etc.

I don't have any more cases to resize at this time... but I'm bettin' backing the die off from firm contact with the shellholder (like I do with most others) will cure the problem.

Anyway... we'll see.
*

[DerekP Houston]

Thanks guys.
Yeah, I'm thinking a die problem also. The brass I was running through it was mixed head stamps, some fired in the boy's gun, some range pick ups. None resized easily, but some required considerable force on the handle. I do have the die adjusted to make contact with the shell holder, I could try backing that out just a little... but really, to me, the force required feels like too much as soon as the case mouth starts into the die.

Well, there ain't any more cases to play with at this time, they've all been resized.
Maybe next time I'll try my .38 ACP carbide resizer.
*

For what its worth, my 9mm set from lee came with the wrong sizing die and was sent back and exchanged. 2nd set works fine for me, I haven't noticed any additional pressure needed for reloading 9mm. I lube my cases in a gallon size bag with a couple shots of Hornady One Shot.

[308Jeff]

This is one of those rumors that persist for some reason. All factory ammo is tumbled before it's boxed up. There was either an article or thread about this. They tumbled ammo for hundreds of hours and had high magnification, microscope, pictures of the kernels. Nothing changed after hundreds of hours of tumbling. I believe they were shot across a chrono as well. Tumbling for an hour to remove lube isn't going to change anything.

I posted the link in the post above yours.

Amazes me that people think that ammo can be transported all over the globe, but can't handle a little time in a tumbler.

[Whitespider]

For what its worth, my 9mm set from lee came with the wrong sizing die and was sent back and exchanged.
Was it marked/labeled wrong?? Or was it marked/labeled correctly, but the wrong die for the set??
*

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've done some more investigating, examining, measuring, and whatnot.
I believe 95% of the problem was... ummm... well... operator error :oops:

I was resizing mixed headstamps, several different headstamps. Some were range pick-ups, some were fired in my son's two pistols, some fired in his buddy's pistol, and some fired in a gun belonging to a visiting family member a couple years back. The cases with "F-C" headstamp resized noticeably easier than most others, those with "WCC" and "WIN" headstamps required more effort. The "R-P" headstamps required an effort somewhere between those, and the smattering of other headstamps varied with some requiring even more effort.

...SNIP

My last batch of 9mm range brass that I bought, then processed, then sorted, I found about 100 (out of a box of 3000), that looked like they were reloaded HOT, and probably more than once. I use a Lee 9mm carbide size die, The few of those HOT ones that I sized, sized quite difficult, enough so, that I culled them all out....or most of them, then I ran across some more, but didn't show the extreme signs of HOT relaoding, these were a off brand headstamp that I never heard of "AMMOLOAD", but those were doing what you mention in the OP, "On a handful of them I actually displaced brass and created a sharp ridge where the case stopped entering the die". I sized a couple of them, then took the time to cull the rest before they got to being sized.

[Lloyd Smale]

ive done it myself without incidence but it still makes me nervous.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/989047_Tumble_live_ammo_Tumbler_Oandapos__thruth_E XTREME_edition__200hour_torture_test__UPDATE__fire d_rounds_in_OP.html

[Lloyd Smale]

So it looks like you have just as many replys as me on this so why are you so concerned what others are doing? Why are you pushing your point?? Common sense would dictate that if a guy was paying extra for carbide dies he was using them like they were intended. Just like 99 percent of the people buying them do. Would you buy a 650 Dillon and load one round at a time on it?? Not a nonsense point, a "common sense point" If your dies and press aren't up to sizing tiny little 9mm brass without over stressing it your using some kind of junk press because I have no problem doing it even with a lee hand press. Try your personal attacks next time I post as usual. Its always entertaining;).
"If you are having problems sizing pistol brass with a carbide die theres (sic) something wrong that needs to be fixed or replaced."

No one mentioned having problems sizing pistol brass except the OP.
Those are some, myself included, who mentioned that they put case lube on all brass when sizing, carbide or not. That is a choice. That you will not accept that others do it differently than you do seems to be your modus operandi. Why do you care what other people do??? That you can size unlubed brass with carbide dies dose not mean that you have to do it that way. Common sense would tell anyone that there will be less stress placed on the brass, dies, and press with lube. Some people choose to get postsecondary education and some do not. That is a choice. You keep making the same nonsense point. You do it your way and others will do as they see fit.

[308Jeff]

ive done it myself without incidence but it still makes me nervous.

Absolutely nothing wrong with being nervous or cautious when it comes to reloading. :-)

[DerekP Houston]

Was it marked/labeled wrong?? Or was it marked/labeled correctly, but the wrong die for the set??
*

IIRC it was marked/labeled correctly just had a 380 sizing die instead of 9mm. It's been awhile though my memory may be off. My guess was someone had opened them up to look at the dies and mixed them up putting em back. Amazon swapped it no problem.

[Whitespider]

IIRC it was marked/labeled correctly just had a 380 sizing die instead of 9mm.
LOL - That's funny - I need a .380 resizing die because my boy wants to reload that also.
However, given the dimensions of his 9mm resizing die I'm bettin' it will work just fine for that (or I can use the .38 auto resizer)... and I can use my .38 S&W expander and seater to complete the job.
*

[jmort]

"... tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets..."

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
So much fail

[jsn]

I have had that issue only on sub-gun fired 9mm. They were easy to spot, the case mouth was wider than the base. They almost looked like a .380ACP fired in a 9mm chamber does.

[jsn]

I do remember something about powder and deterrent coatings--I think it was from the first Lee reloading manual.

A shooter was loading at the bench, getting high pressure on all freshly loaded rounds that were the same load as the ones loaded at home that showed no high pressure. They contacted the powder company--that powder was designed so that it was expected that transport/tumbling would alter the deterrent coatings in the loaded round and prevent the situation that the shooter was experiencing at the range bench.

[Whitespider]

I don't believe anyone can say with absolute certainty that all availible smokeless propellants are unaltered by tumbling/vibrating. How many are there?? 200?? 250?? 300?? More?? I would think that most can handle a short session in a tumbler without an appreciable alteration... vibration could possibly be more effective at altering certain(?) smokeless propellants. Then you figure in things like load density, temperature, the shape of the case, how many rounds in in the machine... heck, even the age of the propellant.

I would never say never... ever.
Don't get me wrong, I've done it for expedience on occasion, but only for a few minutes. My preference is to not do it for several reasons, not just the possibility of propellant alteration. I really don't want boolit or case lube mixed into my vibrator media... especially if it contains any petroleum products. And I don't like the idea of bare lead alloys being "polished" in my vibrator media either... that would have to introduce more lead dust into it than is necessary... right??

Just my 2¢... if it's even worth that.
*

[Lloyd Smale]

So what scientific test are you basing your opinion on? I said its more of a mental thing to me. Not something wrote in stone. so are you saying too that its ok to tumble lead bullets in your dusty dirty media???? Remind me not to buy a gun from you.
"... tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets..."

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
So much fail

[Whitespider]

So what scientific test are you basing your opinion on? I said its more of a mental thing to me. Not something wrote in stone. so are you saying too that its ok to tumble lead bullets in your dusty dirty media???? Remind me not to buy a gun from you.
There is no "real science" (that I'm aware of) to support any opinion about tumbling/vibrating loaded rounds with every smokeless propellant, under every conceivable variable. Informal tests, using specific and narrow conditions/propellants is not "science"... however, it does give a person a reason to believe (or justify) what they want (or choose) to believe.

I'm in your camp Lloyd... my personal preference is to avoid putting loaded rounds (especially with bare lead exposed) in my vibrator. Not that I've never done it... I would never say never... but I'm uncomfortable with doing it for several reasons.
*

[Whitespider]

Look at it this way...
So some guy tests a half-dozen powders in his vibrator and found no change in appearance or at the chronograph... what does that mean?? Well, it means those half-dozen powders were apparently unaffected by his vibrator and his conditions... and it means no more than that.

Vibration can be measured in frequency... like a radio wave... in hertz.
So if his vibrator runs at, say, 30 Hz per second... how does that apply to my to my vibrator running at 40 Hz per second?? Or your vibrator running at 20 Hz per second??

See what I mean?? Informal testing is not "science"... and it proves very little beyond the specifics of the informal test itself.
*

[jmort]

I don't tumble/vibrate loaded ammunition. Lloyd, you made a backhanded statement with zero evidence to back it up. Others posted information that contridicated your unfounded opinions. Why not just say something like I have no idea what I am talking about, but my opinion is that ...., but you stated it catagorically, as fact, even though it was an opinion based on nothing.
It is common knowledge that:

"Many manufacturers of ammunition do a final cleaning of their product either by tumbling or a vibratory process before boxing it for shipment. In no case is this allowed to exceed more than just a couple of minutes. The intent is not so much to “polish” but to remove any traces of contaminants which might in time leave marks on the finished product. There seems to be a consensus among the ammunition manufacturing engineers that a minute or two of vibratory cleaning has no discernable effect on burning rates, especially for loads that are compressed, or nearly so. However, all have emphasized the need for EXTREME CAUTION not to overdo the process"

There is a lot of information, aka , facts available if you wish to wash away your ignorance of the issue.

[Lloyd Smale]

point is jmort that if your using a lanolin based lube a couple minutes in a tumbler will get you dirty lanolin on your cases. It takes a fair amount of time in a tumbler to get lanolin off a case. IF your were more conserned with helping the original poster and less in trying to prove me wrong in about every post your opinions would count a lot more here. bottom line is I never said it was anything but my opinion but it looks like its an opinion others share. Ammo manufactures might very well tumble for a couple minutes to put a shine on there ammo but they don't have the concern of tumbling off case lube. If I get under your skin so much you might want to consider the ignore function. Bottom line is nobody here has a ballistic lab so we are all either stating opinion or passing on someone elses opinion. Id have to say ive been around here long enough that my opinion is respected AT LEAST AS MUCH AS YOURS!

[jmort]

Fair enough
I respect your long time membership
I will steer clear of commenting on your posts
Your knowledge of the big bore handguns is impressive

[Lloyd Smale]

I respect your opinions too. You contribute a lot of good info here as well. This whole thing has gotten silly and I apologize for my part in it.
Fair enough
I respect your long time membership
I will steer clear of commenting on your posts
Your knowledge of the big bore handguns is impressive

[jamesp81]

There ain't really a "brass" forum so I'm posting where I'm comfortable.
My son has decided he wants to reload for his 9mm Luger, and purchased a Lee carbide 4-die set.
The effort to full-length resize the brass is more than any other pistol/revolver brass I've ever done (with a carbide die)... a lot more. On a handful of them I actually displaced brass and created a sharp ridge where the case stopped entering the die.
Is this normal with the 9mm?? Or should I be lookin' at a die problem??
I never thought about it, but I have a .38 ACP carbide resizing die I could have tried... but all the empty brass is resized now.
*

I've never experienced that with 9mm, whether lubed or not. I would look at cleaning the brass thoroughly (if you haven't already) and cleaning the die thoroughly (if you haven't already). If that doesn't help, the die could possibly be undersized. Don't get me wrong about Lee, I like a lot of their stuff, but I know them as a company, and I've had a few items from them were slightly out of spec (undersized boolit sizer die, out of spec turret head for LCT press, borderline undersized boolit mold to name the prominent ones), so it's worth considering that the die might be undersized or slightly out of spec.

Also, inspect the die and ensure it actually has the carbide insert ring. This is actually the sort of behavior I'd expect from a non-carbide die if running without lube.

It's also possible the chamber the brass was fired was significantly oversize. Without an unsized piece of brass, however, there's nothing to measure to confirm that.

[deepdarkwaters]

I have ran into a few 100 9mm case of range brass that my lee sizing die would leave a step and be galded at the base but i could run it in my rcbs die and it would fix them and after fighting stuck case's i lube all my brass

[Grmps]

"... tumbling live rounds can break down powder cornels and powder coatings and change the burning rate of you powder and if your using conventionaly lubed bullets your impregnating dirt and dust into your lead bullets..."

Wrong
Wrong
Wrong
So much fail

I'm no great expert but I know for a fact that a commercial ammunition sales company throws all the freshly loaded cartridges in a cement mixer for 45 min with fine corn media to remove any lubing and polish the cases. I also heard not to put loaded rounds into a vibratory tumbler for the reasons mentioned above, but never heard any mention to rotary dry media cleaners.

As to fired 9mm brass size, my 9mm Llama slugs out at 358+ and the brass is significantly larger than out of my other nines.