Problems with the RD 460-425

[6pt-sika]

Last year I I worked out my loads for use in the 1895CB with the RD 460-350 and the RD 460-425 . Later when I picked up my 1978 vintage "New Model 1895" I took it out and sighted it in with the RD 460=350 and it shot great . So i thought I would shoot a couple of the 460-425 to check the POI . I shot at 50 an 100 and they looked okay and pretty close to the same POI . So I shot no more .


Saturday I took a bunch of 444's and the 1978 vintage 1895 to the range . All my 444's went well with the RD 265's , 285's and 300's . Also went well with Boomer Mikey's 434-330 .

So I tried the 1978 vintage 1895 (that is micro) . I had added a old Weaver K2.5 so it needed to be sighted in again . So I strated with the 460-350 and they shot great ! Then I went to the 460-425 and three shots keyholed . So I cleaned the rifle and tried 3 more , same ****e . So I cleaned it again . I was thinking the ammo was a year old and possibly it had gotten contaminated . So when I got home I loaded some fresh with the same charge etc .

Sunday finds me back at the range with a couple other rifles and the old 1895 . Sat down and tried the 460-425 fresh ammo and keyhole city , cleaned again raslly well and three more keyholes . So then I fired 3 of the 460-350 and same as before they were right on target and tight .

So as I was riding home I decided to try some hotter loads thinking I was not pushing them hard enough to stabalize .

My original load for the 460-425 is 32 grains of XMP5744 and it does great in the 1895CB (ballard rifled) .

So I decide to load 3 rounds with 33 grains of XMP5744 and three more with 34 grains of XMP5744 . These loads are falling into Ruger #1 class of things .

I also thought I would try some IMR4198 Marlin loads . With the max being 41.5 grains I loaded 3 rounds with 41 grains and 3 more rounds with 42 grains .

Just for argument I pulled the 1895CB out of the safe to go along .

When I got to the range today and got set up I started by shooting the old 1895 . Tried the 33 grain round first and one shot keyholed , so I pulled out a 34 grain round and it keyholed also . Then I tried 41 grains of IMR4198 and agin keyhole . So I figured try the 42 grains of IMR4198 and same story . Four shots four different loads all keyhole and all are at max or over . So I cleaned the rifle and laid it to the side .

Pulled out the 1895CB and shot three rounds of last years 460-425 with 32 grains of XMP5744 and they shot great . Then I tried the 2 remaining rounds of 33 grains of XMP5744 and again they looked good . So I shot the 2 rounds with 34 grains of XMP5744 and they were the tightest . By now the barrel was hot so I cleaned it really well and walked down to my target to tape up the holes .

When I got back I decided to try the remaining loads with IMR 4198 . The 2 with 41 grains shot okay and the 2 with 42 grains shot a bit better .

So I have gone over max with two powders for the 45-70 and the 460-425 bullet , but in the old micro barrel I cannot stabalize them like I can in the ballard barrel .

Any suggestions for other powders and charges to try ?

Worse come to worse I can always relegate my 1895CB to the 460-425 and the old 1895 to the 460-350 .

I am also thinking about going back in the next day or two and trying the same loads in my new Marlin 1895 (2007 vintage) but this one is ballard rifled just like the 1895CB so that will most likely not help much .

[Scrounger]

Reduce the velocity. The bullet is going too fast to catch the rifling and start spinning.

[felix]

Yes, or the grooves in the barrel are loaded up making the lands not tall enough to grip. Lube has too much viscosity for the gun, or the amount too much. Do what Art says, first. If the problem persists, play with cleaning the barrel more often to prove the problem solution. ... felix

[6pt-sika]

Yes, or the grooves in the barrel are loaded up making the lands not tall enough to grip. Lube has too much viscosity for the gun, or the amount too much. Do what Art says, first. If the problem persists, play with cleaning the barrel more often to prove the problem solution. ... felix


I'm using Thompson's Blue Angel .

Okay I'll try 31, 30 and 29 grains of XMP5744 .

[Scrounger]

A slower powder will lower the acceleration force on the bullet. By using a slower powder you can keep the velocity the same and yet be more kind and gentle to your bullet. I think Gary used H4198 and slower powders in his testing.

[miestro_jerry]

6pt,

I use H4198 and it works great for me. I ahve not tried the powders that you have used. I just stick to Michaels charts and recommendations on the RD website: http://www.ranchdogmolds.com/. Also ask questions over at: http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/board,64.0.html

Jerry

[6pt-sika]

I went out today and tried 3 rounds of XMP5744 at 29 grains and 3 more at 30 grains .

All 6 went straight thru the paper like they were supposed to ! I shot all six in about 2 minutes and then reached over and got 3 of the 460-350's and fired them as well ! And again they made a nice little group same as before .

Think I'll take three more of 29 and 30 as well as trying 3 of 28 grains !

Only thing I can figure in the fall when I shot the warmer load the temp was far cooler and maybe the heat of the summer increased the pressure enough in the New Model 1895 to make them keyhole with the shallower rifling .

I think when the weather cools of say in early november I'm gonna try some more of the 460-425's with 32 grains of XMP5744 just to see [smilie=1:

[Bass Ackward]

<<I was thinking the ammo was a year old and possibly it had gotten contaminated . So when I got home I loaded some fresh with the same charge etc . >>


This statement has me asking if you water drop. Cause water dropped bullet soften over a years time.

Near max loads developed when bullets are at peek hardness, will be over the line when the bullets soften. And the lower the rifling height, the worse this will be apparent.

[45 2.1]

What diameters are the two boolits? As cast and sized?

[6pt-sika]

[QUOTE=Bass Ackward;367102This statement has me asking if you water drop. [/QUOTE]


No , so far I've only done aircooled WW's .

[6pt-sika]

What diameters are the two boolits? As cast and sized?

.459"

[45 2.1]

.459"

All the Marlins i've tried accept 0.462" diameter boolits in Winchester and Remington brass. They shoot very well at that diameter. Most 0.459" diameter boolits do NOT do nearly as well.

[BABore]

Ditto that. I shoot all mine at 0.4620 in three different Marlin's. The RD460-350 mold I have only drops boolits at 0.460. I've found them to be velocity limited to around 1,600 fps or so, no matter the alloy, hardness, or lube. Too small, limited bearing, and lube shy. Did I mention that I'm not fond of them.[smilie=1:

[6pt-sika]

All the Marlins i've tried accept 0.462" diameter boolits in Winchester and Remington brass. They shoot very well at that diameter. Most 0.459" diameter boolits do NOT do nearly as well.

All of the bullets I have put thru the 1895CB have been sized in the .459 die and all did fine !

My circa 1978 "New Model 1895" does great with the .459" bullets in the 330 grain Gould HP and the Ranch Dog 460-350 . And now that I've dropped back to 28 and 29 grains of XMP5744 it is doing fine with the 460-425 .