45-70 1874 Sharps loads

[shafer44]

I need some help. I loaded up some cast bullets last week and used the primer deal on the RCBS rock chucker i have since i did not have the correct shell holder for my hand held primer. I used primers out of a new box and had no problems. My shell holder i ordered came in and I used my lee hand primer to load some 45-70 last night. There were primers already in the tray, so I measured them to make sure they were large rifle and loaded up 30 rounds. Well when i was out at the range while ago, I had one batch that were newly cast, sized and lubricated with my rcbs lube a matic and most all of them did not shoot. I had to take my cleaning rod and knock them back out the breach. Out of a box of 20, i probably only had 5 actually fire. The other shells that i reloaded, most fired, but a couple did not. When i knocked the bullet back out of the breach, there was clumps of powder that came out with some of them. It was not greasy clumps, but kind of semi-scorched and maybe melted together. I could mash the clump and it broke up into granules of powder. By the way, I was loading 405gr bullets with 35 grains of IMR 3031. My thoughts are that the primers were either bad or were large pistol and not hot enough. Can anyone think or tell me something that they think happened? The bases of my bullets were clean, no gobs of lube, as I wiped each one as I took it out of the sizer/lubricator. Also, the powder is not old, I have had it maybe a year and it shoots fine in my 223's.

[NSB]

I've owned several 45-70 rifles and the only time I ever had a "glob" like you describe was with 3031 powder. I've read reports of others having this happen with this powder. I know it's a very popular powder with this cartridge, but there are many other powders that shoot just as well and they have never done this. I don't think it's your primers at all. I've been using the same primers for several years now and like I said, it was with the 3031 powder. I've never had even one problem with any other powder and I've tested a dozen powders in this cartridge....and most shoot pretty well. This is the least fussy cartridge I've ever shot. It seems to like about everything I try. All shoot good and some shoot great.

[lotech]

I would certainly suspect faulty, contaminated, or the wrong primer (as you mention the possibility of pistol primers).

IMR3031... I realize some people use it with success, but I tried it years ago for cast bullet loads in .45-70 and 30-30. I quickly found it wasn't ideal in either for best accuracy, at least with my guns and components. You might consider SR4759, 5744, Reloder 7, and one of the 4198s.

[JimB..]

To be clear, you had 15 squibs out of 20 rounds? The primers ignited but the powder failed?

Have I got that right?

Sounds like contaminated powder. Maybe cases not dry after tumbling? Suppose could be plugged flash holes from dry media. I'd pull any remaining rounds and see what you can see.

As for your handprimer, pick up a pad of 1x2 post it notes so you can mark what's in it when you charge it.

[country gent]

35 grns in the 45-70 case leaves a lot of air space. Tipping the rifle up to settle powder against case head may help.A charge with enough air space may not be directly in the primers blast and not ignite.

[quail4jake]

The only ignition failure I've ever had was with this same load. IMR 3031 is notorious for this but only in large bore cartridges like this...why? who knows! But I can help you, try H4198 and Trail boss. My Sharps .45-70 functions great with these loads using 300gr cast boolits, good luck!

[shafer44]

Well, first, let me say that I dry tumbled the brass and did not remove the old primer until after tumbling, so no plugged primer flash hole. The powder, as i said works fine in my other guns, and it is not very old. I am still shooting Unique that is 25 yrs old (15# keg), Accurate Magnum Rifle that is 10 yrs old, etc. This powder is about 2 years old. Every shell that i shot, the primer had gone off. I don't know how hot the primer ignition was and I am thinking that was the problem?? With earmuffs on and the strong hammer of the Sharps 45-70, I never heard the primer, but I heard or felt the hammer hitting every time, plus, the bullet was driven just into the lands, and I had to use my cleaning rod to drive them back out the breach. I have already thrown out the 8-10 primers that was left in my hand primer tray and have pulled out new primers and filled the tray. I really think it is the primers since last week when I loaded the first ones, I used the priming arm of the RCBS rock chucker and put new primers in then and had no misfires at all and the same powder. I am going to try some 5744 that i recently bought also. That stuff is high!! I have an 8 lb jug of 3031 though and it would be great if that worked for me. The shells that did fire though did not give me very accurate of a pattern. Of course, I have trouble even seeing the target at 100 yds, much less shooting 1" groups with a tang sight.

[Wayne Smith]

If you use those loads again simply point the barrel at the sky after loading for a few seconds. This will settle the powder against the base of the case. Either that or use a filler.

[country gent]

THe Sharps also has a oddly shaped firing pin set up that's almost a z Shape. If you don't half cock the hammer the tip may chip or excess wear occur. You can see the drag force on the case head by the score line it leaves on the case head from pin drag. I would check the firing pin to make sure it isn't chipped or worn, or broken. Also that it is moving freely, and not binding along it travel.

[NSB]

country gent is correct. You need to cock the hammer before moving lever to open or you will damage the pin.

[shafer44]

I do put the hammer in safe position after firing and before opening the lever to drop the block. That was not the problem. The firing pin is making big dents in the primers and every one of them fired.
Today, my problem was solved and by my first idea of the problem.....PRIMERS. Like i said, the primers I used were in the tray of a lee hand primer and who knows how long they have been there....probably years. I really think the primers were large pistol and just did not have enough ignition. They went off, but only scorched the powder, melting some granules together. The IMR 3031 is about one of the lowest pressure loads that I have seen and obviously, takes a hot ignition to burn the powder. Today I finally got to go back out and with all new WW large rifle primers, I did not have one missfire. Every shell shot just like it was supposed to. Thanks for the inputs. I am hardheaded and have an 8lb jug of 3031, that is what drives me to making it work. I am going to load some AA 5744 next time and see if it groups better. I am still learning how to use the Soule type sight and globe front. I bow down to those that can group 1-2" at 100yds with this type of sight. The front circle I am using covers up 8-10" of my target or more and I am happy at this point to have a 4-6" group.

[NSB]

shafer44, to get the tightest group due to sight size, use the smallest aperture in the front you can. The trick is to shoot at a dark bullseye with white around it. Ideally you want to see a thin sliver of white around the round bullseye. Shooting targets other than round bullseyes with this set-up makes it quite a bit more difficult to shoot small groups. Your eye will automatically adjust the bullseye to the center of the aperture this way. Good luck with your gun. It's quite a learning curve when you get in to these things, but it's a lot of fun shooting them.

[Engineer1911]

Using the same style sight on a 22 LR rifle is much cheaper shooting. I practiced on my Mossberg M44 with Lyman replacement front sight. My Sharps clone groups at 100 yards - 5 shot clover leaf - was tighter than the Mossberg was at 50 yards.

Try 31.5 grains of AA 5744 with that 405 grain bullet. You might just be grinning!