Powder check on progressives, for disscussion

[JohnH]

When I first got my Load Master I was terrified of double charging a case. I bought the basic no frills press and was charging cases using a dipper. I took a 45-70 neck expanding die I was not using, dropped a 1/4" x 3" bolt into the die with a 5?16" washer to keep the bolt from falling through put it in the station after the charging station and had a redneck powder check. Didn't take long to add the Lee Auto Drum but continued to use my homemade powder check. I weigh either every 5th or tenth case depending on the powder have have found the Auto Drum to be very reliable,it throws fine grain powders like Tite Group within +/- .1 grain all day and flaky stuff like Unique and Red Dot within .2 grains all day. I've watched this for two years now, but just can't bring myself to set the powder check aside even though I'm confident that the operation of the machine and the measure will throw good charges and move the charged case away from the charging station, it is a very simple matter to screw the order of events up by pulling a case for some reason or other and returning it out of order. (My powder check caught a case I had weighed the set in the resizing station as I was talking with my wife. As I prime off press I have removed the decapping pin on all my pistol dies so it is possible to run a charged case through the resizing die and not know it doing things as I do, set up as I am) I know that the Lee 1000 doesn't have a station that could be used for powder check and I'm sure that other makers offer power check only as a kind of second thought, (Hornady offers a die they call the Powder Cop) So I'm curious, how do you guys that don't have or use a power checking station insure against the bad things that can happen?

[jmorris]

I use the Dillon powder check when I can it is so sensitive it can tell a difference in case volume even if the charges are exactly the same.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EU9deSKm48

That said, there are plenty of times when I have to rely on my two eye's, once trained they are pretty dar accurate too.

[rancher1913]

with progressive's there is a lot going on and the powder check just gives me piece of mind.

[TexasGrunt]

I use the RCBS Lock-Out die on my Hornady. When set up correctly it's scarey good. Catches .38/.357 case differences and .380/9mm case differences. I know those from actual use. On the 650 I have the Dillon check but since I've never done anything but .45 ACP on that machine I don't know how sensitive it is.

I really like the RCBS since it stops the press. Nothing to look at, nothing to listen for. I may very well switch the 650 over to a Lock-Out die.

[OS OK]

I vote 'RCBS Lockout Die' because it will stop the press with a squib or double charge...
...( How sensitive is it? I Dunnoh. These RCBS L/D's are mechanical devises and can be adjusted, 'preloaded' on adjustment to be overly sensitive but whatever sensitivity you adjust into the 'overfill or underfill' side of the notch you add that tolerance to the other side. Dillon is a different story, I don't assume to discuss that one. It has two probe rods that can be adjusted independently, can't comment there.)

I tried years ago to determine the exact sensitivity of the RCBS L/D and IIRC'ly...it was around 2 grains +/-. That variance is too large to qualify this die to be a 'quality control' die other than it preventing the squib or double charge. So...that is it's job and it does it well.

The only thing I'd caution about battery operated sensors is that with the low quality of battery production in this world today...well, they puke their guts out and corrode the electronics of everything it comes in contact with. Hate batteries!

You also need to pay attention, concentrate, put a light in the press and use your eyes and intelligence, learn the feel of the press working correctly and anticipate a problem developing if the press doesn't feel or sound right...if you are not smarter than the press you operate then you need to stop and re-think using a progressive press.

[noylj]

I like the Lock-Out die (like the fact that it is non-electric and is very sensitive and locks the press), but NOTHING beats actually LOOKING in the case before placing a bullet on it. If you can't look in the case, figure out how to mount a mirror.

[Taterhead]

I mostly use the dual optical powder checks, with enhanced focus by -2.75 power soft contact lenses. Very accurate in detecting double or squib charges. The exception is for the tiny 223 cases where the usual practice is suboptimal. For that, an RCBS powder check die works in tandem with the dual optical powder checkers.

However, I firmly believe in the notion that you can't inspect quality into a product. So I work to use a very consistent cadence, rhythm, and pace to enhance charge consistency and to avoid interruption.

[kryogen]

I don't use a powder check. Never had an issue in 5000 rounds.
I don't see a use for it. The measure drops the charge, I mean, it's there, period.

[M-Tecs]

5,000 rounds is a good day of loading for me. None of my 6 progressives are run without a powder check. Powder bridging is the issue I run into the most. Lots of other odd ball stuff happens. Chances are I would have caught them without the powder check but with it only an idiot could have a light or heavy charge.

[gray wolf]

inexpensive inspection camera saves a lot of bending over.
Can it show a .2 difference ? --no, a double or a squib ?--yes.

My friend that I share things with tried the Dillon P/C die and we couldn't keep powder from sticking to it, trust me we tried.


193857

[OS OK]

If it as a plastic foot on the rod you can wipe it with a dryer sheet. That helps to keep the powder from sticking to it.

[jmorris]

The only thing I'd caution about battery operated sensors is that with the low quality of battery production in this world today...well, they puke their guts out and corrode the electronics of everything it comes in contact with. Hate batteries!

This is a very good point, years ago I got into the habit of setting off both the low primer and powder check right before I begin loading, like this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3hVi6PuduM&t=6s

I also have 14 smoke detectors all over my house that are interconnected because of the alarm system. Because of this when one battery goes south, I change the batteries in all of them. While I'm at the store getting them I also get new batteries for everything that uses them in my reloading room. That takes care of both problems.

[jmorris]

When I automated my first 1050, since I already needed power for it to run, I did away with batteries in both devices, wiring into them directly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

[jmorris]

If it as a plastic foot on the rod you can wipe it with a dryer sheet. That helps to keep the powder from sticking to it.

Its brass, I can only guess they got some case lube on it somehow.? Be better to wipe it with a degreaser.

[jmort]

I run, among others, two 550s and just don't see the need. If I had a 650 or 1050 probably a different story.

[ioon44]

I have been loading on a 550 for 29 years and never seen the need for a lot of the new stuff that is being sold, just pay attention to what you are doing and no distractions while reloading.

[OS OK]

[QUOTE=jmorris;4026708]When I automated my first 1050, since I already needed power for it to run, I did away with batteries in both devices, wiring into them directly.

That's the best idea I've heard yet wiring them on a separate supply.

Question...With all the computer supervision over that 1050...would you be comfortable walking away from it to attend to other duties in the shop? (I'm speaking of the 1050 with a motor drive on it)
What I mean I suppose...treat it like a CNC machine? Load it up and let it run till it needs attention or more components?

Is that why you have automated it to this degree...or was it because you just wanted the challenge and enjoy such control work?

Also...does the computer give you a 'jog' button to clear the machine?

[jmorris]

What I mean I suppose...treat it like a CNC machine? Load it up and let it run till it needs attention or more components?

Is that why you have automated it to this degree...or was it because you just wanted the challenge and enjoy such control work?


I had planned on building it for a number of years before I finally got around to it. When my Daughter was an infant I built it and learned to program the PLC while she was sleeping.

Once completed I could load ammunition for the match I was heading to while taking care of other things. A scoop of bullets, a scoop of brass, tube of primers and hit the button. If it wasn't the last 100, add another tray of primers to the tube filler and hit that button too. Load 300 rounds for the match with less than a minute spent in the reloading room.

When she got old enough to walk, she would stand at the door and watch it load.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20130718_135216_122_zpsdead8f17.jpg

[JWT]

I like the RCBS lockout.

Had a squib in the 44mag before the lockout die. Never had another.

[Epd230]

I recently solved this problem by standing up while I reload. This gives me the ability to visually check the case prior to seating a bullet.

(Dillion 550b)

[OS OK]

It's been a lot of decades since my kids were that size...all bright eyed, wiggly little fingers just dying to see what makes that blue thing tick!

One of these days she'll be running the presses and you can be the press maintenance guy who gets lots of free ammo!

[Smk SHoe]

Already happened to me. Taught my daughter to shoot early and later in high school to reload. Now I'll come home from work with a note saying I'm short on pistol primers or powder, orange juice empty in the fridge, and a big pile of empty brass to clean on the bench to replace the 500-1000 she loaded and took off with. Gotta love them kids.

[kryogen]

I also have 14 smoke detectors all over my house

Oh that kind of explains why you can afford those tools ;) Because I have 2 smoke detectors in my house, so yours is probably 7 times larger or something.

[TexasGrunt]

Oh that kind of explains why you can afford those tools ;) Because I have 2 smoke detectors in my house, so yours is probably 7 times larger or something.

If ya have a newer house you have lots of smoke detectors. Code is one in each bedroom, one OUTSIDE each sleeping area, one on each level of the home, if a level has no sleeping areas then install in family/living room/den.

We've got something like 8 in our house, but they're all hard wired!

[jmorris]

Oh that kind of explains why you can afford those tools ;) Because I have 2 smoke detectors in my house, so yours is probably 7 times larger or something.

My wife would have me put a smoke detector in a tent if we were out camping. Only time I do things I feel that are a waste are when my wife asked me too. I found out a long time ago that I am happier when she's happy.

Yeah, they are everywhere if I stand in the right spot I can see 3 at a time. They are also wired to the alarm system so the battery goes low and the unit starts chirping, in short order it signals the "system" to make all of them chirp, thus the shotgun approach of changing them all when the first goes south.

[daloper]

My uncle gave me his Lee progressive press and I had a problem with sometimes not dropping a charge. As I size and prime off the press I moved everything over and put a Power COP die in the empty station between the powder die and the seating die. I have been using it for a few months and I did catch one that only threw a half charge. Much peace of mind for the cost.

[sparky45]

+1 Better than Dillon's powder checker or the powder cop IMO.


I like the RCBS lockout.

Had a squib in the 44mag before the lockout die. Never had another.

[OS OK]

My wife would have me put a smoke detector in a tent if we were out camping. Only time I do things I feel that are a waste are when my wife asked me too. I found out a long time ago that I am happier when she's happy.

Yeah, they are everywhere if I stand in the right spot I can see 3 at a time. They are also wired to the alarm system so the battery goes low and the unit starts chirping, in short order it signals the "system" to make all of them chirp, thus the shotgun approach of changing them all when the first goes south.

Not only have you shown me that you are a talented man...but...now I see you have 'Wisdom' beyond your years!'