Any Underhammer Makers?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Does anyone have any info on anyone still producing the H&A style Underhammer Rifles(Buggy Rifle)? I have not been able to find anyone on the net that will return my emails.

Regards,
Everett

[JeffinNZ]

Sorry, I forget the links but if you search on under hammer then Blue Grouse or Grass and North Pacific you should find some. I would like one long term. Dinky and good for the wife also as she is a southpaw.

[Razor]

I just noticed some on GUNBROKER.....


Razor

[StrawHat]

SPRINGFIELDM141972

I don't believe anyone is still making the H&A underhammer, Blue Grouse was making them for a while but the web site has not been updated and from what I read, he is no longer producing rifles as there were problems with BATF. Something about they considered him a manufacturer and required he file all paperwork and pay taxes, etc, etc.

Best bet for a H&A style is to look on the auctions or in gunshops.

These folks make a Billinghurst style

http://www.dedinski.com/en/index_en.htm

Not sure if Pacific is still around but here is a link.

http://www.pacificrifle.com/catalog.htm

The underhammer is a good action for a target gun as the hammer is not right there in front of your eyes, nor is it whacking down and helping gravity bring the muzzle closer to the earth.

I have seen a flint variety of underhammer and may have to get a copy made of it.

Good luck.

[northmn]

As I am not interested in one for personal ascetic reasons I didn't read close but the AmericanLongRifle site was talking about original underhammer flinters. One problem was that they tended to burn the forearm. They are good guns and originals in flintlocks did exist. Target shooters also liked them because the nipple was screwed directly into the barrel for supposed more positive and quicker ignition. Another style used similar to that was the mule ear or side hammer. They cocked sideways instead of upwards and struck a nipple directly screwed into the barrel. An interesting variation of these is that they were used on superimposed load guns where they tried loading one charge above another and had two or three hammers. Safety problems may be obvious.

Northmn

[Underclocked]

http://underhammers.com/muzzleloaderkits.htm might be worth contacting him to see if he is still selling rifles.

Did you try Wade Ingrham wadeingrham@basinlink.com ? http://www.lx.net/wadeingrham/rifles.htm

[twotoescharlie]

blue grouse ain't no more, I got the last 50 cal. buggy rifle kit from him about two and a half years ago, it is a good shooter.

TTC

[Digital Dan]

The nipple arrangement for underhammers and sidehammers, ie. the nipple screwed into the barrel...will take higher pressure than a bolster set up. It's one reason they are common on the old slug guns. That it keeps the debris out of your face is no small consideration either.

Think about that when you torch off 150 gr of FFg under a 900 grain bullet.

[Boz330]

It's a shame Deer Creek isn't making their kits anymore. I bought one several years ago and it shoots really good and the price was right, $239 at the time. He also had a Mowery Rifle kit as well. I'm sorry I didn't get one of those at the time for a later project. He used to make all the parts in house but as he got older he just went to selling all of the usual generic stuff and accessories. I friend of mine goes by there pretty regularly, I'll have him ask the guy who bought out all of his machinery and patterns.

Bob

[Digital Dan]

I'm thinking the most likely good builder of an underhammer would be yourself.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Barnhillscope6.jpg

If you'll look closely you might appreciate the simplicity and utility of the underhammer gun in this configuration. You'll note the trigger guard is the hammer spring and the trigger directly engages the hammer. Hardly gets any easier in concept.

[John Taylor]

I still make a few under hammers. Try to make them to use for myself and end up selling them before they are done. This is the one I just got done with. Dale Woody (gunfancy.com )put some squiggly lines on it. Hammer and trigger are from H&A stile. Caliber is 32 and the wood is some cheep stuff from gun parts corp. http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/brassUHafterblue.jpg
I have another brass frame in the works for a customer but have been to busy to get it finished. The frame is almost done.http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/UHmachinesides.jpg

You might look here for more info. http://underhammers.blogspot.com/
The under hammer flinter will be the next project.http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/flintlockunderhammer.jpg

[Digital Dan]

Mr. Taylor, that is a pretty rifle. Ever build a slug gun?

[John Taylor]

Mr. Taylor, that is a pretty rifle. Ever build a slug gun?

Just finish a heavy slow twist for a customer but not any fast twist heavy barrels. Have made some fast twist hunting barrels. Many years ago I was making inlines from H&A shotguns and was using some fast twist barrels (1 in 22") in 54 cal. that shot good. Used a short piece of barrel, shrunk down, for a bullet sizer. This made for a mechanical fit on the rifling and the bullet didn't need to upset much to seal the bore. One of these rifle got a Caribou at 400 yards in Alaska, shot by a professional guide.
The under hammers are a simple design but with no more castings they can take a while to build. There are these actions,http://muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/cgi-bin/mbscart/agora.cgi Put in "under hammer" in the search. I won't build these any more after finding out the molds were stolen. They require a lot of work to make them function.

[Bret4207]

John- Was that "frame" cast with the curve or did you bend a hunka brass? I just passed up an H+A UH rifle at an auction but I really liked the way it hung. Any info would be appreciated.

BTW- Love that flat side action and the spare aperture mounted on the pic above it!!!

[jh45gun]

I made a rifle and a shotgun out of scrap parts and the underhammer design was my own. No they are not the prettiest on the block but they go boom when I pull the trigger and the trigger pull is good. Problems were not many plans for a full stock underhammer plus I do not have a shop with all the tools for making recievers ect so I improvised. Stocks I bought from a friend he had some laying around he bought at a close out and I got them at 10 bucks a piece. I had to sand out the octagon channel round then glass bed the channels again for the round barrels to fit. Barrels I bought at Gander Mountain on a close out both for 60 dollars and they had been marked 180 dollars they were for a knight switch barrel gun that they had discontined so I bought the barrels and decided to make underhammers out of them since I figured I could not afford to buy locks for them I would make my own. The Rifle is a 54 cal fast twist 1 in 28 twist Green Mountain Barrel. The shotgun is 12 guage and has a Remington choke system in it and the choke that came with it is a turkey choke. The angle iron for the lock I know is not pretty compared to some but with the full stock I could not get the action completly into the stock with out weakening the stock so this is the best I could come up with. Yes those hammers are Ruger Single Action hammers bought at a gun show for 50 cents a piece. LOL I figure I have less than a hundred dollars into a pair of muzzle loaders.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jh45gun/dcp_0068.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jh45gun/dcp_0066.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jh45gun/dcp_0061.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/jh45gun/CNXT0004.jpg

[Boz330]

This is the one I bought 3 or 4 years ago from Deer Creek products. It is the buggy rifle, they also had 32" barrels as well but that one was on the shelf and I needed it quick. Put meat in the freezer first time out. I really like the H&As. I thought about getting a smooth bore barrel for it to hunt turkey but the trade gun bug is still chomping on my butt.

Bob

[John Taylor]

John- Was that "frame" cast with the curve or did you bend a hunka brass? I just passed up an H+A UH rifle at an auction but I really liked the way it hung. Any info would be appreciated.

BTW- Love that flat side action and the spare aperture mounted on the pic above it!!!

The brass had to be turned down from 1.375" to 1.250" just because that was the only size I could find at the time. Then it was drilled and reamed to 5/8" on one end about 3/4" deep and 9/16 diameter for about 3". The other end was turned with a lip for the stock and then drilled and tapped 1/2" course for the stock bolt. Then it was bent in a press and the cut made for the trigger and hammer. Then the holes for the hammer and trigger were drilled and tapped. A jig was made up to hold the frame on a rotary table so the sides could be cut. I tried it before without the rotary table and it took longer. It's to the point now where I need to make the 2 screws for the hammer and trigger which are casting that I traded for and probably came from deer creek. I have a few more but may need to start making them from scratch soon. On the larger frame I am using the set screws to hold the barrel. I didn't think there was enough wall thickness on the little frame to hold the screws so it got a tapered pin like the early H&A's.
Just a note on the little 32 rear sight aperture. The post is made from pre hardened spring steel with a thread pitch of 40. A 1/2 turn will equal about 1.25" at 100 yards. The aperture can be screwed in from ether side. The thumb wheel on the side of the frame locks the post in place to keep it from turning. This is called a lolly pop sight. H&A made some with windage adjustment and I copied one but was not happy with it so will come up with something better later on.http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/UHlolypopsight.jpg

Dale Woody put the finishing touch on a hammer I'm using on another build.http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/UHdogshead.jpg

[Underclocked]

http://www.logcabinonline.com/item42uhak.html

[John Taylor]

http://www.logcabinonline.com/item42uhak.html

That's the same action that muzzle loader builders supply has for $75. As stated in an earlier post, the molds for this action were stolen from the designer so I won't do any more of them. They do take a lot of work and were designed for a barrel that is 1.5" in diameter, bench gun or chunk gun. The hole in the frame for the breach plug is as cast and requires reaming to 3/4" while keeping it true to the face. All holes need to be drilled and tapped and lots of filing. It's almost as easy to start from scratch. Picture of truing up the breach plug hole. http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/cleaningupbore.jpg
Two actions, one cut down and top octagon to fit a 1&1/8" barrel. http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/2UHactions.jpg

[Boz330]

Well My buddy stopped at Waldron, IN to ask the guy at Deer Creek about the underhammers. He was hit by a tornado an it took the roof off of his manufacturing facility and then they got 23 inches of rain before they could get any kind of protection for the equipment. The place is pretty much of a disaster. they still don't have a roof on the place. He said that he has the parts for the underhammers, but no stocks. Right now his stock duplicators are rusty as hell and they are down the list from the machine tools for clean up.
At one time he had 28 folks working for him full time, but now it is just him and a part time guy building the stuff. He doesn't even carry those guns in his catalog anymore. I'll try to keep you informed if you are still interested when he gets things to where he can sell some kits.

Bob

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Boz

Thank you. If you hear of his return to manufacturing please let me know.

Regards,
Everett

[Boz330]

Boz

Thank you. If you hear of his return to manufacturing please let me know.

Regards,
Everett

Everett, will do. My buddy goes by there every couple weeks on job related stuff, and he has the best price on BP in the area. My buddy is trying to talk him out of one of his Pratt Whitney rifling machines, with out much luck though. Personally I'm interested in one of the Mowery rifle kits, but he doesn't have any of the barrels for those right now.
I think the guy stopped advertising the kits in his catalog because he is pretty old and doesn't want to work that grind anymore. Just do a few for folks that know he still makes a few now and then. The place is really in the middle of nowhere. The mail order stuff keeps him as busy as he really wants.
I was wondering why he didn't have a booth at Friendship this year, he is always there. The tornado was the answer to that question.

Bob

[tn gun runner]

Here the one I make


http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/targetBP.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/targetBP-1.jpg

[bigbore442001]

That is a very interesting handgun. Have you ever chronographed any loads? It looks like a great hunting pistol with the right caliber/load combination.

[John Taylor]

tn gun runner, That's a nice looking pistol. Here's one I made about 20 years ago.
http://johntaylormachine.com/typo3temp/pics/042d3d01a1.jpg

[Old Ironsights]

I love underhammers. They make great Cane Guns too.

[longbow]

These guys are making underhammers if you are looking for big bore anyway.

http://www.pacificrifle.com/intro.htm

Longbow

[Old Ironsights]

Oddly enough, when it comes to .54 or larger I want a regular Hammer Double Rifle like the Pedersoli Kodiak.

It's the small calibers (.45 & less) where I prefer the underhammer. Quick & light.

[freedom475]

[quote=Old Ironsights;403510]Oddly enough, when it comes to .54 or larger I want a regular Hammer Double Rifle like the Pedersoli Kodiak.

After reading that link I just had to try the kodiak with a big load...

.715 RB 580gr. est.(not sure of wieght as my scale won't go that high)

85gr. 2ff = 1000fps ave.
125gr. 2ff=1100fps ave.
170gr. 2ff=1300fps ave.
250grs.... I like the gun too much...I'll save that till I go after something Real Big... and scary

Had to stop there...I just hate breaking stocks....Yes I've broke a lot of stocks but never ruptured a barrel[smilie=1: Biggest/meanest thing around here is a Grizzly Bear anyway... but I have shot the .715 into a beef cows skull and down her spine and the ball still exited between the shoulder blades...thats more bone than any Bear I know of. When we butchered her it was descided that the 72 was too much gun:Fire: