Rifle Pistol Combo: Which W.C.F. Caliber?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Rifle pistol combo in 32WCF, 38WCF, or 44WCF? Which do you prefer and why?

Really would like to eventually own a rifle and pistol in a common W.C.F. caliber once finances allow. Both the rifle and pistol will likely be Uberti brand firearms offered through either Taylor's or Cimarron.

I like the 44WCF but am turned off by all the issues with oversized throats in revolvers and 44mag/special diameter bores in rifles. Do the other WCF calibers frequently have mismatched bores and throats?

For the sake of this thread lets say I do not yet own molds or components for any of the calibers listed.

I will be shooting mostly black powder at steel targets.

[Ianagos]

I'm in very much the same boat except I'm not necessarily looking at just wcf. I thought about 44mag and 45 colt too. I think .357 just won't work too well with black powder. Now I'm considering 45-70 but I think it's a bit much for just steel shooting and the I also won't be able to get a pistol in the same caliber. So let me know how your search goes. At this point I've decided whatever caliber comes along as a very good deal on a levergun first will be my choice.

[Wayne Smith]

I have 44-40's and shoot them with BP. I load with a mixed set of dies and have no problems. I use an old RCBS seat die with the seat stem filled and filed smooth as a powder compression die. I shoot the MAV 200gr big lube boolit. 38 grains FFG Goex.

[Outpost75]

It is easier and less expensive to have a revolver cylinder reamed to correct too-tight necks and cylinder throats to enable loading .431 bullets to fit a .44 Magnum dimensioned barrel, than to attempt to find both rifle and revolver with compatible dimensions to enable full cartridge compatibility. The variety of quality bullets is better in .429-.430 than in traditional .44-40 bullets of .425-.428. The only reason to limit yourself to inferior, undersized bullets is to shoot an antique firearm which you don't want to modify, as you would ruin its collector value. Modern guns will not have collector value in your lifetime, so it is a simple gunsmithing matter to correct dimensions to make them shoot accurately with the most common and plentiful bullets.

I have both Rossi and Marlin .44-40 rifles which have .430 barrel groove diameters which shoot well with common .44 Magnum dimensioned bullets. Both rifles are strong and can handle heavy hunting loads. I have two Ruger revolvers which have barrels of normal .44 magnum dimensions, which came with .44-40 cylinders too tight to enable loading bullets compatible with the barrel groove diameter. John Taylor rechambered my revolver cylinders, opening chamber necks from .445" to .448" and enlarging cylinder throats from .4265 to .4305" so that I can use the same ammo with good accuracy in both rifle and revolver, with either smokeless or black powder. The Rugers are strong and handle full charge Winchester '92 level rifle loads easily and with excellent accuracy.

Both the Marlin and Rossi rifles also handle black powder as well as smokeless. Marlin MicroGroove rifling is not an impediment to good shooting with black if you use SOFT bullets which FIT and have adequate lube groove capacity to hold sufficient SPG lube to prevent foul-out in long strings of fire. I had Tom Ellis at Accurate cut molds of the proven John Kort BP designs to fit my guns for BP use and the Accurate 43-230G is my design for full-charge, smokeless hunting loads.

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[2ndAmendmentNut]

I'm in very much the same boat except I'm not necessarily looking at just wcf. I thought about 44mag and 45 colt too. I think .357 just won't work too well with black powder. Now I'm considering 45-70 but I think it's a bit much for just steel shooting and the I also won't be able to get a pistol in the same caliber. So let me know how your search goes. At this point I've decided whatever caliber comes along as a very good deal on a levergun first will be my choice. I have had good results with rifles and pistol combos in both 22lr and 357mag (smokeless loads).

Never have tried a 44mag combo, only shot revolvers.

I had a few 45colt combos, but have since sold all the rifle/carbines in 45colt because I hated the blow by when using black powder. I also could never find a load that shot well in both, I either had to focus on one and live with mediocre accuracy in the other, or load separately for each.

For my next combo I really want to stick with a W.C.F. caliber mainly because that's the way it was, and for the superior/cleaner performance with black powder.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

It is easier and less expensive to have a revolver cylinder reamed to correct too-tight necks and cylinder throats to enable loading .431 bullets to fit a .44 Magnum dimensioned barrel, than to attempt to find both rifle and revolver with compatible dimensions to enable full cartridge compatibility. The variety of quality bullets is better in .429-.430 than in traditional .44-40 bullets of .425-.428. The only reason to limit yourself to inferior, undersized bullets is to shoot an antique firearm which you don't want to modify, as you would ruin its collector value. Modern guns will not have collector value in your lifetime, so it is a simple gunsmithing matter to correct dimensions to make them shoot accurately with the most common and plentiful bullets.

I appreciate your very thorough and informative reply. I understand the reason factories use 44mag spec barrels, etc. from an economical stand point. I do like the 44-40, and reaming throats and chambers is an option. I just have to ask though if it might be simpler to get either 32-20 or 38-40? As I understand it the barrels and chambers are both specifically cut for these calibers and these calibers alone, so wouldn't the dimensions be better right out of the box?

[Outpost75]

I appreciate your very thorough and informative reply. I understand the reason factories use 44mag spec barrels, etc. from an economical stand point. I do like the 44-40, and reaming throats and chambers is an option. I just have to ask though if it might be simpler to get either 32-20 or 38-40? As I understand it the barrels and chambers are both specifically cut for these calibers and these calibers alone, so wouldn't the dimensions be better right out of the box?

A valid question. I can't speak to the dimensional uniformity of modern .32-20 or .38-40 rifles and revolvers but years ago thoroughly frustrated myself in trying multiple .32-20 revolvers and sold them all when the Ruger Single Six .32 H&R Magnum came out and never looked back. I had John Taylor make several single-shot .32 S&W Long and .44-40 rifles for me which get constant, satisfying use.

[runfiverun]

I know my 38-40 rifle and revolver did not have the same cartridge dimensions.
pretty common for the caliber.

from the choices above I'd be more inclined to go with the 44 special.
a quick chop-thread-recut and re-install of a 44 mag Barrel and your in business, with no fuss and no drama.

if it has to be a wcf I'd go with the 44-40.
you'll at least be able to get a rifle and revolver in that caliber.

[mdhillbilly1]

I'm in very much the same boat except I'm not necessarily looking at just wcf. I thought about 44mag and 45 colt too. I think .357 just won't work too well with black powder. Now I'm considering 45-70 but I think it's a bit much for just steel shooting and the I also won't be able to get a pistol in the same caliber. So let me know how your search goes. At this point I've decided whatever caliber comes along as a very good deal on a levergun first will be my choice.
Here is a link to a 45/70 pistol

https://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-4570-Revolver-75-inch-Barrel.asp

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[mdhillbilly1]

Here is a link to a 45/70 pistol

https://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-4570-Revolver-75-inch-Barrel.asp

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45/70 Thompson contender pistol

https://goo.gl/images/ZAty5k
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Magnum research 45/70 pistol

https://goo.gl/images/fG833L

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Marlin 1895 45/70 rifle

https://goo.gl/images/3Tv20B

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Century Arms 45/70 pistol

https://goo.gl/images/kQ09kE

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Mil Inc. Thunder Five
45 LC / 410 GAUGE / 45/70

https://goo.gl/images/f4UzXw

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[Texas by God]

.44-40 by a long shot. A 73 Uberti and a 75 Rem Uberti.

[Ianagos]

Here is a link to a 45/70 pistol

https://www.magnumresearch.com/Firearms/Magnum-Research-4570-Revolver-75-inch-Barrel.asp

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That's not a pistol that's a hand cannon. I only weigh 150 pounds I'm not trying to fly back 10 feet every time I squeeze the trigger. But it would be cool to own like a 50.bmg.

[Scharfschuetze]

For aesthetics, it's the 32/20 for me. A Marlin 1894CL and a S&W Hand Ejector (3d Model).

I also have a 357 Marlin CB rifle and a few 357 revolvers. For practicality, that's a hard combo to beat.

[Harter66]

Having had a trio of 38/357 , 1 ea pistols and an 1894CB a 357 , the 357 is a little bit light for BP .
Currently I have 2 rifles , a single action in 45 Colts and soon a double action in 45 Schofield . These are of course all about BP .

My choices were driven by where I live and what ifs and a desire to have a companion pair .

I voted for the 32-20 . Easy on components and plenty of whack for those pesky steel plates . Lots of 30/32 cal bullets too .

[w5pv]

I choot a 45C because they bleed more and kick around less

[Greg S]

My choice would be the 32-20. Something fun, can take small critters and cheap to shoot. If I want to get pounded, I've got 92s in 357 and 45 Colt with pistols to match but when I have the time to plink, the 32 gets the nod.

I've got a Winokou 92 in 32-20 and a Ruger Buckeye. The 32 H&R cylinder has been lengthend to 327FM for when Henry rolls out their rifle. Also got a 357 and 45 Colt 92s and pistols to match. The nice thing about te buckeye is if I ever find a compatable load for one or the other, I not really restricted by receiver strength and can try it in the other if I stay within the Rugers pressure window.

Edit to Add: The other thing about the 32-20 is it's just cheap to shoot, an RCBS 314-90 CM, AND 5.0 of Unique or other quick powder and you can shoot it all day.

[psweigle]

My vote is 32-20.

[Harry O]

I shoot all three, reload for all three, and have guns for all three. The 32-20 is by itself, not really comparable to the other two. I have shot it since the very early 1960's. Great for small game hunting and plinking in general. It is a bit small (but legal) for CAS shooting. One of my friends used that caliber in CAS for a while, but it did not have enough power to knock over some of the moving targets. He was also convinced (take it for what it is worth) that he was counted as a miss a few times when it did not make enough noise when it hit the target.

When I decided to go into CAS shooting, I bought a set of reproduction 44-40's. Was never able to get them to shoot well. The chamber, throat, and groove diameters were so mismatched that I was never able to get them straightened out. This was caused by mixing some .44 Magnum parts in with special purpose parts for the 44-40. They ARE different in size. I gave up on the 44-40 after a year or so.

I tracked down some 38-40 reproductions. They shot great right out of the box. Still using the rifles. I converted the revolvers to 41LC after a few years. Before anyone jumps in with "that has mismatched dimensions", yes, you are right. However, my 41LC revolvers shoot better than my 44-40 Ruger Vaqueros in spite of the Rugers being sent back to Ruger twice and to a gunsmith once.

[Harry O]

A little more info. The 44-40's were a Marlin 1894 with microgroove rifling, a Rossi with ugly wood, and two Ruger Vaqueros. The Rossi was planned as a backup. I could shoot .44 Magnum bullets in the Marlin and Rossi. A 0.431"OD bullet with a fairly hard mix worked reasonably well. The Rugers could NOT chamber anything larger than 0.427"OD because of tight necks. The throat of the cylinder was waaaay undersized at 0.424"-0.425"ID. I had that reamed out to 0.430"ID to match the barrel. The gunsmith did not have anything other than a lathe to cut the chamber necks and with six setups, it was more expensive than I wanted to spend. Still, reaming out the throats alone cut the groups to 1/3 of what they were before. That was using a 0.427"OD bullet that was cast dead soft. So the guns required two very different cartridges in order to shoot reasonably well. They would either jam or lead terribly if used on the wrong gun. Defeats the purpose of a common caliber.

The 38-40's are a Uberti 1873 Winchester clone, a Japanese Winchester 92, and two Uberti 1873 Colt Clones. I have not had a problem with any of them. I shot the same 38-40 cartridge in all of them. They were accurate from the start and I have not had any problems with any of them. I can still shoot 38-40's in the handguns since I kept the original cylinders untouched when I had them converted to 41LC. The 41LC cylinders started out as a .357 Magnum and a 32-20 cylinder. The Japanese 92 was bought as a backup since I saw a LOT of breakdowns with rifles in CAS. The Uberti 73 Winchester has been so reliable that I have hardly used the 92 other than checking the sights every year or two.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I voted 44 WCF. Have numerous 1892's and several revolvers.
It is a challenge to come up with one load that both a rifle / carbine and revolver will shoot great. Reasonable accuracy is far easier with a healthy dose of 3F and 40-1 mix bullets sized to the max that the smallest throat will handle. Photo is our 1907 vintage SRC with a 1903 vintage Colt New Service. Mike in Peru

[OverMax]

Went that route years ago around the date President Reagan banned assault rifles. Winchester Trapper purchased new from Jerrys Sports Center prior to the Button and Angle eject models in 44 mag and a NIB 7-1/2" Ruger Red Hawk in caliber 44 Mag w/ EPaso holster.
Couldn't develop a reasonable accurate loading that could be used in both 44s. So the Trapper went down the road. Kept the Ruger 44 Mag. Have only one regret.
"I should have purchased that Trapper in 30-30." If asked would I match another pistol to a rifle? No I would not.

[69daytona]

Was gifted great grandfathers Winchester 38wcf deluxe many years ago, it's still in fantastic shape and I shoot it often, a few years ago I called Cimarron looking for a SAA in 38wcf and was told they were not making anymore, asked to speak to a supervisor and they put me in touch with the CEO, we talked for about half an hour and he agreed to make me one when they made their next run of SAA, about 8 months latter he gave me a call and said it was ready.
had it sent to my LGS and have been very happy with this gun. Polished blue 5.5" case red dot frame. Shoots great and great companion to my Winchester.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I voted for the .44-40 because I like the cartridge. Traditional. Fun to reload for. Getting it right is part of the challenge. But, that having been said, what would be wrong with a .44 Mag combo? You could use black powder, if that is your desire, and can also used .44 Spec. (assuming that it would feed through your rifle) for practice. The .44 Mag./Spec. is easier to load for and you get away from the thin walled neck of the .44-40.

[TXGunNut]

I have the 32 WCF covered with a ca. 1902 1892 and a somewhat newer Navy SAA clone. Working on the 38 WCF with a ca. 1923 1873 but still looking for an 1873 Colt to go with it. No interest in the 44 WCF at this time. 32 is a sweet little cartridge that's easy on your powder and lead supply, the 38 is a cool cartridge. 44 rifles and carbines are a bit pricey and won't do anything I won't try to do with a 38.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Thank you all for the votes and replies. I believe at some point I will have to give the 38-40 a try. Currently I have a rifle in 44-40 and revolvers in 45colt. I have found that I really enjoy shooting 45 Schofield from the revolvers. I like how the Schofield and the 44-40 both use the same shell holder. After a day of shooting black powder I can easily decap all my Schofield and 44-40 brass together and throw them into the tumbler. The short Schofield cases are also easy to sort out from the 44-40. For now the 44-40 rifle and the 45 revolvers are my combo.


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[lobogunleather]

My 1914 vintage Colt Single Action Army-Frontier Six Shooter .44-40 goes very nicely with my 1905 vintage Marlin 1894 rifle .44-40. Both still shoot as well or better than I can.

Being an old guy myself I tend to appreciate the old guns. Haven't paid enough attention to the newer stuff to recommend one over another.

[rintinglen]

Went that route years ago around the date President Reagan banned assault rifles. Winchester Trapper purchased new from Jerrys Sports Center prior to the Button and Angle eject models in 44 mag and a NIB 7-1/2" Ruger Red Hawk in caliber 44 Mag w/ EPaso holster.
Couldn't develop a reasonable accurate loading that could be used in both 44s. So the Trapper went down the road. Kept the Ruger 44 Mag. Have only one regret.
"I should have purchased that Trapper in 30-30." If asked would I match another pistol to a rifle? No I would not.

So you never went that route?

[Four Fingers of Death]

I voted 44WCF as that's what I shoot in long and side arms. I do have a 25/20 1908 vintage 1892 Winchester and a selection of 32WCF rifles, but no handguns in those calibres. They are all enjoyable and very useful.

[veeman]

I have 7 44-40's, 4 pistols and 3 rifles, so I reckon the obvious choice would be 44-40. :)

[35 Whelen]

A few years ago, I would've quickly said "44-40", because it would seem to be a more practical, all around cartridge. But, because they're less expensive than 44-40's, I picked up an 1886 production '73 Winchester in 38-40, then another made in 1890, then a 1903 Colt Bisley found its way into the fold, then a 1902 Colt SA, then another Bisley made in 1905, ALL in 38-40. I now love the cartridge and shoot the rifles a lot, and at my 200 yd. steel target where they do very well:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds%20labeled_zpsz07tvqaw.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds%20labeled_zpsz07tvqaw.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds.%20Herco_zpsg5fcpll0.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds.%20Herco_zpsg5fcpll0.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds.%20Unique_zpsgzg7jjnt.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/1873%20Winchester-%201886%20Production/200%20yds.%20Unique_zpsgzg7jjnt.jpg.html)

The revolvers, especially for their ages, shoot very well too:

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Colts/15%20yds%20offhand_zpsznash7n3.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Colts/15%20yds%20offhand_zpsznash7n3.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Auctions/25%20yds.-1_zpsm7j5f2gr.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Auctions/25%20yds.-1_zpsm7j5f2gr.jpg.html)

And finally, my old rifle has proven its worth in the field twice in the last few months!

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/3%20point_zpswtji6qwy.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/3%20point_zpswtji6qwy.jpg.html)

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Hunting/Gobbler_zpschqunhns.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/Hunting/Gobbler_zpschqunhns.jpg.html)

Here are the two bullets I use. The one on the right, from an RCBS mould, is loaded over black powder and used for hunting.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/1873%20Winchester/38-40%20bullets-3_zpsgnpwihbt.jpg (http://s60.photobucket.com/user/308Scout/media/1873%20Winchester/38-40%20bullets-3_zpsgnpwihbt.jpg.html)

35W

[smkummer]

Agree with the above 35 Whelen for the same reasons. I have also a bisley like above and have my eye on a 73 Winchester for 1K that looks pretty good in 38 WCF. I think 38-40 is maybe easier to work with from the start and the advent of 40 S&W has made a vast amount of 40 caliber bullets available although some don't work in a tube fed rifle. Hey and "dinging" steel at 200 yards is just flat out fun with these rifles that have a time delay from the "bang" to the "ding".

[indian joe]

For What Its Worth
I ran a Rossi '92 in 357 mag on black - no problems
21 Grains FFF - Lee 158Gr Flatpoint (mold no 90303) .....357 mag makes a nice simple blackpowder round - brass is everywhere cheap
as to the original question I think my choice would be 38/40