working on a "soft" bullet 30/30 load

[T-Bird]

I have embarked on a project to get a decent grouping 100yd load with LY31141 cast soft. Purpose will be for deer hunting. Hardness is about (Lee Tester) 9.2ish. Gun is Marlin 336 CB. It shoots COWW bullets very well at 100 (1 1/2 inches or so depending on the day) at a vel. of 1875ish fps. with 21gr IMR 4198/dacron. Can't get the softer alloy 31141 to shoot as well with that load. I'm getting 4-5in groups at 100. I intend to try slowing the load down and use a slower pwdr like 3031. Should I clean the bbl well and start evaluating accuracy with a clean bbl, or should I foul it first with harder bullets then use the softer ones. My purpose for asking is I was wondering if the softer bullets would need some lube in the bbl first to shoot without leading. I want to evaluate loads in small groups, so I don't have to pull a lot of inaccurate rounds. If I shoot 5 rounds and they are accurate, I will load 5 more etc. I know if the bbl is clean, a couple shots may be necessary before the group begins to form.

[Outpost75]

Keep velocities to .32-40 levels, ~1400 fps and you will be fine. I use 16 grs. of 4064 with 175-grain plainbased bullet cast 1:30.

193085

[OS OK]

Outpost...that's pretty impressive looking. What was the test media?

[mdi]

Have you been able to retrieve a fired bullet? Perhaps the softer lead bullet is skidding in the rifling...

[Larry Gibson]

I hunt with the 311041 that soft. I start with a clean barrel and clean every 7 or 8 rounds. My 30-30s will hold best accuracy (about 2 moa) for that many shots then accuracy opens to 4+ moa as the barrel fouls from the softer alloys. I push them 1950 fps from my carbine and 2150 from my rifle. Works fine for hunting. If Ive not got the game in 7-8 shots I might as well go ome and clean the barrel anyway.....

Larry Gibson

[T-Bird]

No, I have not recovered a bullet. I really just started this project. I'll start with a clean bbl.What pwdr you pushing them with Larry?

[Larry Gibson]

4895 in the carbine, any flavor but mostly use H4895. Was also using 4895 in the rifle but have switched to LeveRevolution powder for better performance.

Larry Gibson

[bluejay75]

Outpost75,

what bullet is that?

JB

[popper]

Just shot mine today @ 50, 185gr GC ~1600fps, haven't chronyd yet. Soft alloy, 15.8 gr 2400. Sized 311 for my 336 but I nose size ~ 0.1" of the nose to fit the lands. Big improvement. Group is 3x larger without the 'trick'. Seating short has always hurt my groups.
193107

[Outpost75]

Outpost75, what bullet is that? JB

Started as RCBS 30-180FN, had modified by Erik at www.hollowpointmold.com to bore out GC heel to provide .312 base band, did Cramer conversion to cup point while truncating nose to provide 0.25" meplat.

[Outpost75]

Outpost...that's pretty impressive looking. What was the test media?

Water jugs at 50 yards.

[T-Bird]

Went to the range today. 25.5 gr IMR 3031. Had 7 rnds loaded. After the fouling shot, had 4 dead on and w/in 11/2 in and 2 fliers- 1 4 in. high and 1 4 in low. Don't think the fliers were me. This is better that the 21gr 4198 since I got 4 dead on but the 2 fliers out of 7 total is troublesome. The fliers were not in the first part of shooting, they were #3 and #6. Guess I will go up a grain or so, if that doesn't work, will go down a grain or so . Or go get some LeveRevolution or 4895. These are slower than 3031?

[runfiverun]

4895 is the next step slower than 3031.
I'd look at a larger diameter boolit and double check that the nose in engraving the rifling.
311 would maybe be a bit on the small side for this.
if you have some 4831 try 34.5grs of that, it should just about fill the case and give you around 1800 fps with a soft gentle push. [you can move towards 36 with no problem]

[T-Bird]

Been sizing this boolit .310 for years for this gun and it does well with COWW. Not sure it drops large enough to size larger. I think I have some 4831left over from 25/06 and jackets may give that a try too. I got my microgroove 35 Rem to shoot soft boolits very well at about 1750 fps a couple years ago with 3031 after failing with 4198. Thought it might work in the 30/30 too.

[44man]

The mold I made drops a 187 gr boolit, size to .311" and it has done less then an inch but not all the time. The Marlins are not easy to bench. I just shot some over the chrono and got 1952 fps with 28 gr of 3031.
Tried IMR 4895, 25 gr and it shot well but dropped to 1609 fps.
The gun shot very good with Varget and I need to test that more. Varget shoots so well in other calibers, even the 7R and 7BR pistols and is top rate in the 6.5 Swede. It is the most versatile powder I ever used, you would not expect it to burn so clean in 10" barrels, Hodgdon laughed at me when I asked for loads, said it would not work but it does. 2175 fps in the 7BR. 1/2" at 50. I need to put the MOA against a deer.
I make one mistake with the 30-30, all my brass was salvaged and I mix brands, Rem, Fed and WW so I need to sort it. I was weighing cases to sort but they get mixed.
Another thing I found was boolit run out, necks are not even so I neck turned just enough and accuracy improved a great deal. Can't measure on a cast so I just measure the neck. But before I cut I could roll a round on the bench and it wobbled like crazy. Got the tool out and the dial indicator went nuts.
Roll a round on your bench and see.
I also found cases stretch a lot in the lever gun, need to trim often.

[popper]

It's the MG that gives you trouble with the soft alloy (~1% Sb?). After the group I posted above, shot 20 rnds of 175 PB, same alloy, same boolit design (no L.G.s), same load. Shotgun pattern. The 175 @ the same fps from a normal groove BO did fine, no leading. This alloy does well in 40SW also. You do fine, then slight leading & poof, flier. Leading gets wiped out by a shot and your good till the next time. The GC does scrape out some of the leading so most of your shots are good. H4895 and LeverE can be downloaded (youth loads) to get your fps down to 1600 -1800. 2400 or Rx7 is probably more economical.

[T-Bird]

The 336CB isn't microgroove, my 35 rem is. Got IT to shoot the soft alloy with 3031. Sorry for the confusion. Going to try 27gr H335 this pm.

[T-Bird]

Bingo! Even a blind hog finds an acorn sometimes. The above load with 6rnds loaded, started with a clean bbl, gave a fouling shot that was about 2" out of group, the next 5 were within 1 1/4 inches or 1 in depending on the holes I measured. This was at 100 yds. Don't know the vel., but according to Lymans 4th ed. 22gr gives 1600fps and 30 gr gives 2250fps.... think I'm good. Hope this is repeatable. Thanks for the help "y'all"!

[bluejay75]

Outpost,

Since you went through all the trial and error on that bullet...see if you can get someone to do a group buy on it or something similar.

[Outpost75]

Group buy isn't neccessary. Tom Ellis at Accurate can make it now and get it to you in three weeks.

[Tenbender]

I'm using 32 gr. Reloader 15 with a 311041 . Powder coated w/ gc. BHN of 10.

[bluejay75]

Thanks for the info OP.

[T-Bird]

Thanks Tenbender

[T-Bird]

Oh, I used dacron with the H335. Been reading that others did the same. I did it just to fill the case. Going to try another 5 rnds with soft alloy today, if these do as well as the other day, I have a new fav. 30/30 load. If not, I 'll cuss...... again.

[T-Bird]

Back at the range today- same results at 100yds. Not going to try for anything better. 12 rnds and this load makes me look like I can shoot. This is my new cast 170gr 30-30 load.

[runfiverun]

nice, a simple little load that just works.
my main one is 24.5grs of AA-2230 which is real handy since that is also my jacketed 223 load.
it also seems to work in the 308 too, and in the 0-6 with a filler, and the 32 win.
oh and the 7.65 argie. :lol:

[T-Bird]

Dang, R5R, you never have to adjust the measure! Just change dies.

[runfiverun]

actually I just swap the powder measure around from die head to die head on the 550's.
the one set for the 2230 load also drops 19.3 grs of 2400, it is also 22.3grs of IMR 4895.

I will go in the gun room and run different powders through different settings on the powder measures I have set up for various powders just to see what they give me then make note of it and refer back to the notes when I want to try something new.
sometimes it works out, sometimes it don't.

[T-Bird]

Shot 5 of these across the chrono. Low was 1924 fps high was 1956fps. Three were over 1950 fps.