unruly cherry wood

[nekshot]

Yesterday I was cutting for firewood the last of a old tear down building 60 plus year old and found a nice cherry plank that would work if glued together for a gunstock. (too thin as it was for a stock) It is real burly which adds to the stability issue of this rock hard native cherryboard. Ok, I used the jointer/planer to get it straight and I glued it together. With my meds I was almost normal but stupid enough to not think of hollowing the butt end of stock. I messed with some of this wood a couple years ago and it moves from summer to winter. My dad always knew when he ran into this kind wood because he would cut it up for fire wood so nobody would put a lot of time in it and be disappointed. I was thinking of cutting a couple dovetails in at certain areas to keep it together as seasons and humidity change. Any experience you pros would have for me? I know firewood is a option but it really is pretty!

[wbrco]

If you have a band saw, you could resaw the pieces apart, then add biscuits in between the pieces to help stabilize.

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[Wayne Smith]

I think you are talking about butterfly joints, often used across a crack in a piece of wood. they tend to be obvious and frequently done in contrasting colored wood.

If the wood moves that much in the weather it will be awful for a gunstock- the movement will change point of impact.

If it is that attractive use it for pistol/revolver grips.

[pietro]

If the wood moves that much in the weather it will be awful for a gunstock- the movement will change point of impact.

If it is that attractive use it for pistol/revolver grips.





+1 - or use it for knife scales.

I'm pretty sure a knife maker would want to buy that wood, so instead of firewood, I'd sell it to one of the knifemakers on www.rimfirecentral.com (http://www.rimfirecentral.com) (see the custom knife section of that forum).


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[ulav8r]

Saw it into 1/4 thick planks, check moisture content, when it stabilizes(2 months at same %) at less than 12% glue it together. I would use epoxy even though epoxy is rough on tools. Would consider other recommendations on glue if several examples were shown as proof of suitability.

[Ford SD]

I have a M14 stock I made from Black Cherry -- no problem
I have canoe Paddles made from Black Cherry -- no problem

Dried over a long time and when made and sealed no problem

the ends will crack unless you end seal it to slow down the drying process or cut off 2-3 inch when dry

I have 2-1/4 x 9 x 12 feet drying in the rafters of the garage 30 plus years -- need a good project to justify cutting it (i did have 2)

[country gent]

Sawn into thin sections and epoxied together under heavy clamping pressure will help to stabilize it a lot. A thinner epoxy is good here as it soaks impregnates deeper into the wood. Draw backs are the epoxy adds weight ( on some woods almost 2-3 lbs), Epoxy is harder on tools, and last the impregnated wood can be harder to get a good finish on

[floydboy]

60 plus years is a long time. I am an amateur wood worker as was my father. Expert by no means. When clearing fencerows on the farm dad would have a nice tree cut into lumber and store in the tool shed. Dad is gone now but there is still enough wood there to last the rest of my life. We've been building things out of it for over 20 years. This wood was never kiln dried. Just air dried under no controlled conditions. To this day I have found no way to predict if a piece will warp, shrink or otherwise ruin a project. I do know that I have better luck as time goes by and the wood gets older. The advice given above is good and will help. I have a thing for old wood. Can't throw it away. Maybe try a piece of it an see what it does under different conditions before starting a project.

[Wayne Smith]

I turn pens and have some figured white oak (limb figure) that I have had three pieces blow up on the lathe - glued to a brass tube, yet - before I get one to turn even with super glue. I am very familiar with figured wood. If there is that much tension in it movement even against glue will happen. Save it for small projects is your best bet.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Twenty years ago during a wind storm a tall old dead wild cherry tree blew down. As it had been dead for at least 10 years or more we tried to salvage as much good wood as possible. We sold most of the trunk, uncut, to a saw mill. I made quite afew canes and walking sticks from the limbs. I can`t put a firm number of the knife scales I made for my knives. I finally sold the remainder of it to another friend that made knick - knacks and such from nice wood.Robert

[waksupi]

The stocks I have laminated were done with Titebond II & III. They have stood up to some serious hunting conditions from Alaska to Africa.

[44man]

I love cherry. Made my swede custom from a tree that fell in the woods. It dried for a long time in the barn but not good enough so I let it in my basement for a month, low humidity of 34-35%. Best stock ever.193037 Took checkering like a champ. Gun will do 1/4" at 100 and never changed.

[nekshot]

Nice gun stock 44man! I have thought of resawing it as I have enough bandsaw to do that but I used TiteBond and it is doing fine out of clamps. Because of the negative possibilities I thought I would use it on one of the Romanian Trainer 22's I got a long time ago. I figured I would restock a Trainer for each of the kids.I have been pushing this project(the Romanian 22's) off for quiet a while. Redid one to look like a minature vz 24 in battle dress. Came out nice when placed with WWII army rifles. I think I will trust the glue and see what happens.

[flounderman]

I made one or two stocks from Cherry and swore I would never make another one. I fell heir to another one and didn't know it was cherry until I started working it. It made a decent stock, but it is difficult to work with. There are different cherry trees, but I have not liked any I had to work with. It probably isn't my last choice of wood for a stock, but it is close. It is a stable wood, and if laminated, it isn't going to go anywhere.

[LAGS]

The last Cherry stock I did was made out of Hardwood Flooring Planks.
They were already seasoned and the guy who owned the flooring company that I was building the stock for, Joined Off the grooves on the back and gave me planks that were 5/8" thick to glue together.
With No reinforcing between the layers except the wood glue.
And the dark one is out of Walnut Wood Flooring

[44man]

Get the wood dry, use good glue and clamp tight. You can make a wonderful thing.

[Edward]

Johnson 1942 has info as I just purchased a fine example of a cherry stocked muzzle loader built by him and as usual fine art!

[William Yanda]

Stanley used to advertise that they made their levels from Cherry because of it's stability. Of course that was before aluminum and plastic replaced wood.

[johnson1942]

ive made two stocks out of cherry wood. its the most stable wood out there. there are 120 year old 6 ft. long levels in ranch shops around here that are as straight as the day they were made. ive never ever had anyproblems with it. if i have to glue, i use gorilla glue. its very good. maybe the glue waksupi posted is better, i dont know, but i like gorilla glue. one of the woods that can look nice but should never be used is oak. i had a piece of very figured oak and made a nice stock out of it. every time i shot that 50 cal muzzle loader a piece would fly off of it. i got tired of gluing back together. threw it away and got a nice piece of western quilted maple. i did ash once and it was really nice to work with but some parts of it acceped a stain and some parts didnt. wont use ash again for that reason. the most beautiful wood,to me, is western quilted maple. it is hard to describe it as it is so beautiful. if you think tiger stripe maple is pretty, take a look a western quilted maple. walnut is a common wood for gun stocks but it doesnt stand up near as well as many other woods. splits under stress too easy for my liking.

[waksupi]

ive made two stocks out of cherry wood. its the most stable wood out there. there are 120 year old 6 ft. long levels in ranch shops around here that are as straight as the day they were made. ive never ever had anyproblems with it. if i have to glue, i use gorilla glue. its very good. maybe the glue waksupi posted is better, i dont know, but i like gorilla glue. one of the woods that can look nice but should never be used is oak. i had a piece of very figured oak and made a nice stock out of it. every time i shot that 50 cal muzzle loader a piece would fly off of it. i got tired of gluing back together. threw it away and got a nice piece of western quilted maple. i did ash once and it was really nice to work with but some parts of it acceped a stain and some parts didnt. wont use ash again for that reason. the most beautiful wood,to me, is western quilted maple. it is hard to describe it as it is so beautiful. if you think tiger stripe maple is pretty, take a look a western quilted maple. walnut is a common wood for gun stocks but it doesnt stand up near as well as many other woods. splits under stress too easy for my liking.


Something I saw with Gorrilla Glue, was it leaves a very fine line of yellow at the joint. If you ever put an ebony grip cap on a nice piece of walnut, it stands out like a sore thumb to me.
I also don't like wetting a piece of wood that I want to glue for long term stability, which you should do for best bond with GG. All depends on what your demands are.

[johnson1942]

i was unaware of the wetting, so far the wood i glued has remained bonded. i know your not supposed to clamp hard with it either but i rub the glue in real good to both surfaces and then clam pretty good. it has worked so far.

[waksupi]

i was unaware of the wetting, so far the wood i glued has remained bonded. i know your not supposed to clamp hard with it either but i rub the glue in real good to both surfaces and then clam pretty good. it has worked so far.

Yes, read the instructions on it. It used to say to wet the surface before applying. I haven't used it in about ten years, so they may have changed the formula.

I got curious, and looked it up. Interesting.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Wetting_Wood_Joints_Before_Gluing.html

[nekshot]

about 15 years ago I used gorrila glue for some shelves in our pantry and I noticed a few years ago the glue was turning soft and fuzzy where some did not get cleaned off on bottom. Is this stuff self deteriorating or what is it?

[LAGS]

Plain old Elmers I what I always use.
I am taking apart a table to refinish it that was built with Elmers back in 1964.
The glue is still holding tight, and actually peels wood off if you try too much force to seperate the old glue joints.
The table also was stored and used outside for about ten years.

[Blackwater]

Nekshot, I have a friend who's a Guild member knifemaker, who'd LOVE to have that cherry wood to use on his custom knives. If you want a good price, I'm sure he'd be glad to pay pretty much whatever you want for at least some of it. You can contact him at dennisbradley.com. I just ordered a couple of his knives for this Christmas for my grandboys. I gave their Dad one with elephant ivory scales for his 21st birthday, and he's never taken it out to use it! I intended for him to use it, but .... it's his now. Dennis makes some really elegant and sort'a minimalist knives. He's located in the N. Ga. mtns, and his work very much reflects his personality, values, and the land that is so full of those neat mountain streams, with their round, smooth stones, worn in parabolic curves. He does everything by eye, and he's a really talented maker. His knives, for the most part, are pretty minimalist, and he grinds away everything that doesn't need to be there, and makes sure that everything that DOES need to be there, is there, and in just the right amounts and contours. He's a real artist. He's played with engraving and scrimshaw, but now that ivory of any kind is so rare, hard to get and expensive, I think he pretty well dropped that. He did one of a tiger that really impressed me. And he's one of the finest men I know, too, so it'd go to a really great guy who'll value it and knows how to make the most of it. Just a thought, if it fits your desires for the wood. Tell him Dennis down in SE GA. sent you there.

[nekshot]

My son has "taken ownership" of this cherry stuff for a 7 day bedroom cabinet but there will be plenty left over or too warped to use other that knife handle or hand gun grips. I will keep your buddy in mind for sure.
Jay

[Blackwater]

Thanks. I just ordered a pair of his knives for my grandboys' Christmas this year. He told me he's getting some really pretty curly paple from the guys who build muzzleloaders. They trim off big, usable sized sections from some really beautiful wood, and he says he'd have a very hard time finding prettier wood than he gets from them. I love curly maple, and almost went with that for their knives, but I gave my son one with elephant ivory scales for his 21st birthday (long ago now) and at least the ivory micarta they will have will "look like" the one their Dad has. He's one talented maker! His photos on his website really don't do his work justice, and you have to handle his blades to really appreciate them. I think that comes from his "mountain ethics," wherein he really cares most about an implement's utility, while also appreciating beauty, whenever and wherever they can find it. Some really beautiful fiddles and many other implements can be found up there in the hands of some mighty humble folks. Their values are about whatever WORKS, and works BEST. He'll always be my knifemaker as long as I live. I think my grandboys are gonna' really be impressed with his work. And, I think, it's good for the young today to get acquaited and have some examples of uncompromised and uncompromising quality. It plays a part in forming those ethics within themselves, over time. And maybe I'll be able to get them up there to meet Dennis one day? They really don't understand the mountains, or the mountain folk yet. It'd be good if everyone did in today's world. It might even make a difference in many's lives, if they did.

[bedbugbilly]

I've used cherry for a number of gunstocks (muzzle loaders - half and full stock) in both straight grain heartwood and curly cherry and have never had an issue with stability. I have also made many many pieces of furniture and case goods from that species without any issues. You say you found a plank - under what conditions? Was it wet or was it where it was protected and dry? What is the moisture content of it? If the moisture content is too high due to the conditions you found it in - they set it aside and let it air dry. I have stock blanks that I have had for many years that are still awaiting use - some I've had as long as 50 years - several are cherry and they are just as stable today as they were 50 years ago as I have kept the stored properly.

On any gun stock blank, one has to be able to "read" the grain and utilize it to the best advantage - and not every blank is one that should be used. The problem arises when you "laminate" such as you have as you have two pieces from the same plank - but from different areas and with different grains. Even if the pieces are within moisture content parameters, you are laminating two pieces that are going to "work against" each other if the moisture content changes to any great degree. While not impossible to do a laminated stock - curly or burled grain is going to "fight" more than straight grained pieces will. Your pieces might be better used in grips, knife handles etc. as suggested and if you are going to want make a cherry stock, find a stock blank that is well seasoned and thick enough to do what you want to with it.

Of course much lumber is "kiln dried" to get it to the correct moisture content. "Pushing" the kiln drying can cause defects in many species such as checking, etc. I had a custom cabinet/millwork/furniture shop for many years. While I often had no choice but to use kiln dried hardwoods due to supply and demand, I often purchased and stored species such as walnut, maple, cherry, tulip, ash, etc. that I knew to be are dried and which was air dried correctly over years as to me, it often had more "life" to it. I often would save choice pieces in 4/4, 6/4, 8/4 and thicker to use on high quality special order case goods. I did a lot of raised panel work and often had wide pieces suitable for the floating raised panels that had been are dried and stored for years - some straight grained and some burled/curly in species such as cherry, walnut, maple and ash and the panels never gave an issue as far as changes in the weather in the Michigan climates.

Good luck with your project and keep your tools razor sharp!

[44man]

I used Gorilla glue with furniture and I defy you to see a joint. I have used Elmers and Tite bond too. They all work when used right. Glue is not a "Filler". Wood must be fit tight with no gaps. Got bad, use epoxy.

[Blackwater]

FWIW, if anything, I once read that cherry wood was used as spacers in some of the earlier printing presses, because of its stability dimensionally. How they "cured" it I have no info on. Anyone heard of this?