Headspace gauge

[abunaitoo]

Looking for a .223 headspace gauge I can afford.
Go, No-go, field
Most I see are kind of expensive for the amount of use they'll get.
Have a guy at the range that is having problems with a new upper he got.
Can hardly get 6' at 50yds. It's not the ammo as they shoot good in his other upper.
I'm thinking the headspace may be off.
He's tried different brands of ammo. He doesn't reload.
Once a guy had changed his bolt to one of those gold colored ones. He almost couldn't hit the target at 50yds.
Was fine with the old bolt.

[SgtDog0311]

I was surprised at how much they went for myself. Hope to recover some of my money now that I'm not shooting that the rifle I have a set for. Not a .223 though.

[Moleman-]

Manson reamers has a "down and dirty go, no-go, field gauge set for $60 https://mansonreamers.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/medium-file-september-2016-catalog.pdf Put them on ebay when you're done and you'll likely get your money back or close to it.

[nicholst55]

You can also rent headspace gages for a reasonable fee from 4D Reamer Rentals (https://4drentals.com/) and Elk Ridge Reamer Rentals (http://www.reamerrentals.com/Default.asp).

[country gent]

Look for areas binding on the barrel, gas tube pinched or binding, gas tube not entering the key centered, Loose fits or torques.

[lefty o]

highly doubtful headspace is this guys accuracy problem, id be looking elsewhere.

[M-Tecs]

From a distance I can't tell you what the issue is but I can tell you with 99.9% certainty that it is not a headspace issue. In addition to county gents recommdations also check to see if the barrel nut is loose. Never seen that on a civilian gun but I have seen it a bunch on actual M-16's.

Also too heavy of a bullet in slow twist barrels don't shoot.

[country gent]

another thing to keep in mind is while these gages don't have a lot of material in them. they are high grade tool steels and the time to machine and grind to the needed tolerences and also the equipment to check them is expensive. Along with the controlled environment needed to produce them. Here the big cost is the equipment and controls needed to make them.

[WJP]

Doubtful it's a headspace issue. Need more details. Gun, rail, scope, sights, twist, bullet weight, etc.

[Texas by God]

Six ft groups at 50 yds? That barrel is fixing to fall off. You can check headspace with shim stock, pieces of aluminum drink can, electric tape even. But that is not the problem. Like others said- we need more info.

[abunaitoo]

I don't know much about the upper he got.
Don't remember the brand, but it's one I never heard of.
I'm not much of a AR, black gun, guy, so I'm not that up to speed on them.
He did send the first one back. They sent him another one.
Second did better, but not by much.
When he puts back the original upper, it shoots great.
I don't think the upper came with a bolt.
That's why i was thinking the head space might be off.
He's tried 55gr, 62gr factory ammo.
I think he said the barrel is a 1-8.
Nice looking, full floating, muzzle brake. Looks to be 16".

[243winxb]

Have the barrel crown redone or checked.

[WJP]

Check the handguard and see if it has any deflection. I've seen some move around enough to cause accuracy issues. Sights may be a problem as well. There are some cheap magpul knock off sights that won't hold a group at all.

[country gent]

if its a flat top upper look to be sure that the hand gaurd tube isn't hitting on the gas block anywhere. Check for pressure points on the barrel. If you disassemble it check fit of the barrel extension in the upper and be sure the nut is tightening against the shoulder on the barrel extension not bottoming out on the nut or receiver. The gas tube needs to float freely thru the nut receiver with no binding and enter the Key on the bolt carrier freely with out being pushed around for best accuracy. Last is to make sure the sights are tight and not creating a constriction on the barrel.

[cub45]

smooth bore?

[Soundguy]

Look at the brass it will tell you if its longer than no go or field. If it chambers ammo, go isn't needed, minimum+ is confirmed.

[abunaitoo]

I'll see if I can get a closer look at it this weekend.
Get more information about it.
It has either a scope or dot sight.
Looked to be a free float hand guard.

[Boolit_Head]

The dot sights are not very precision. Hard to shoot a small group with a 2 mil dot. I switched my 300 blackout over to a scope for that very reason . It was printing all over the place. Scope tightened it up but still showed a problem. Took the upper apart and faced the front of the receiver and that stopped the random fliers that were 3 inches from the group. Working on better cast loads for it now to see if it can tighten up more. My issue might just be it's a cheap 7.5 inch barrel but it may improve some. I have a second 223 Wylde with a similar issue grouping tight but random fliers way out of the group. Plan to face that receiver as well and it should show a bunch of improvement. it would put 2 in a half inch then throw one 3 inches away then another in the half inch group. It's a better quality barrel so I have higher hopes for it.

Both were free floated and swapped bolts with no change so I did not expect a head space issue.

[abunaitoo]

Looked at it a little better yesterday.
It's a Wylde barrel. Stainless. 1-8 twist. 16" with a muzzle break.
Full floating handguard.
Barrel nut is tight.
We took the scope off and put it on another rifle. Not a scope/mount problem.
He had sent the first one back. This one shoots better. At least it will hit the target at 50yds.
6" groups all over the place.
Fired shells look good. Ejection/feeding good.
Federal 55gr rounds.
I suggested he try a swap bolts from one of his other rifles.
He'll try it next time.

[Boolit_Head]

I've got one just like it with a Rainier match barrel. Tried all the usual suspects. Plan to reface the upper receiver. On my SBR I mentioned that has shown to have a marked improvement but hard to tell how much with a 7 inch inexpensive barrel.

[Boolit_Head]

If ya had read the thread it's not his, he's trying to help a friend.

[Boolit_Head]

If ya had read MY post, You would not have posted your reply.
Take a look...again....:



Need glasses to read?

As a matter of fact I do.

But he can't make his friend do anything. He can only help him.

[JBinMN]

I mentioned what I thought ya should have your friend do, but I deleted my suggestion.

Don't need hassles.

G'luck with your friends piece. Hope ya will post up what ends up to be the problem & how ya resolve it.
:)

[M-Tecs]

I am very familiar with Wylde chambers but I wasn't aware they made barrels. Do you have a link?

[abunaitoo]

The barrel is stamped Wylde on the bottom.
Lots of guys, who know more about AR's than I do, have been helping him.
Watching some of them, I think they know less than I do.
I just keep it to myself. Don't want to make waves.
I talk to him about it when only people I trust are around.
I'll pass along the suggestions posted here.
I'll post what progress he's having. .

[lefty o]

the wylde stamp denotes what chamber is cut in the barrel, not who makes it. ill just reiterate, poor accuracy isnt a headspace issue. many variables with an AR, but when you buy cheap uppers, you sometimes get what you pay for.

[M-Tecs]

but when you buy cheap uppers, you sometimes get what you pay for.

When parts were hard to come by I found it cheaper to buy complete uppers than individual parts for the match and service rifle uppers I build. So I have had a bunch of really cheap barrels. Even the worst held well under 3 MOA. The op is stating 12 MOA. I would love to get my hands on that one just to see what it takes to get one to shoot the poorly.

[lefty o]

no doubt even a junker barrel should shoot much better. the barrel could be part of the problem, as could the carrier key hitting the gas tube, a very badly machined receiver face, bullet striking muzzle device, etc, etc, etc, but it being a headspace issue almost certainly not. cheap doesnt just mean a bottom of the barrel barrel (LOL). all the parts are low end, and whoever slaps it together probably isnt too concerned with making sure things are correct.

[country gent]

Make sure the muzzle brake is centered and straight, Look for rub marks to see if the bullet is hitting it inside as it passes thru. One of the National Match mods to the M14 / M1A was to ream the flash hider out with a #7 taper pin reamer to front dia of around .400 so bullets didn't hit. There was a gage that could be made to check the flash hiders being true also.

[abunaitoo]

He called them and explained to them all that was done.
They asked him to send it back again.
he said they were very pleasant and helpful.
I forgot to get the name of the company.

[abunaitoo]

Update on whats going on.
He sent it and got it back.
They changed the barrel.
He shot it and still not that great.
Noticed on the scope mount, one of the screws looked to be bottoming out.
He put a red dot on and it seemed to help.
He was using Fed 5.56. looked to me like factory reloads.
He tried some .223 and is seemed to do much better.
He going to get a new mount and try it again.
He had taken the scope/mount off and put it on another rifle. It shot great.
Mount was tight.
The rail looks the same, but didn't have a caliper to be sure.

[RKJ]

I would have him try some other ammo (I didn't see where he had tried other ammo). I've got some federal 30/06 that won't group to save my life. It might shoot good in another rifle, I haven't tried it. It seems that might be a cheap way to rule out one thing. Good Luck.

[Tokarev]

Red dots, unless expensive parallax free models, are mostly good only for close range handgun/shotgun use. Not good out to 50 yards or more.
Been there done that not going back. I no longer use them in favour of 1x-Nx scopes with illuminated reticle: at 1x it is a red dot, at let's say 4x it's a real scope. As long as its 1x is true 1 as in 1.0, not 1.5 as some knock-offs have.
The parallax of the cheap red dots can ruin accuracy and takes a lot of discipline and training time to get used to, I have neither.