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Bigscot
11-08-2005, 09:48 PM
My son is 11 and will be 12 in January. He is a good kid and I am proud of him. He loves hunting and shooting and got his first deer this year. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders and does not get into trouble. He is a typical 11 year old for the most part but has some attention/concentration issues in school. I want him to do well in school and work with him on homework. My wife and I are active in his and his younger sister's schooling.

He got his report card today and it was not the best he has had and I know he can do better.

My question and dilemma is, should I with should I take away hunting and shooting from him until he improves?

He is my hunting partner and I love having him and with me. I want him to learn the lesson that he has to apply himself and do well in school or what ever he does but I don't want him to find something else undesirable and/or turn/drive him away from hunting/shooting.

I was not always the best student and loved hunting/shooting/fishing/ sports etc but that was never held over my head to do well and I managed to graduate from college. I sometimes wonder though, if I had a price to pay for poor performance in school, would I have done better.

Does anyone have any thoughts, ideas or suggestions?

Bigscot

Char-Gar
11-08-2005, 10:23 PM
You son is at the age when he most needs a male role model in his life. He will never need those times together with you more. Removing those times of companionship will work against what you want to do. There are other ways of dealing with grades..these formative years with his father are far more important that a few low marks.

powderburnerr
11-08-2005, 10:25 PM
maybe ask him , he might be dealing with peer pressure to do something he is uncomfortable with and is preoccupied . take him camping for 3 or 4 days and after the 2nd day he will start talking to you and you can bring it up in a comfortable atmosphere for him........... worked with mine..........Dean

KCSO
11-08-2005, 10:34 PM
At that age my daughter was described as, Smart, but does not work up to her potential. We simply worked with her and kept explaining that without the grades, college and a good job were not in the picture. At 14 she buckled down and got a 3.8 gpa and graduated early to go to college. 4 years later she graduated with a 3.98 GPA with a major in social science and a second major in history and 3 years later she got her law degree. Then she threw it all to he## by becoming a DEFENCE ATTORNEY !!! It was all going pretty good up till then.

What ever you do don't miss any time in the field or anywhere with your kids. My son was my huntin' buddy right up till he was killed in a car accident 1 month before his wedding. I wish we had went hunting more. I miss him every time I pick up a gun.

Springfield
11-08-2005, 10:41 PM
Just pretend you are your father, what would have been the best thing to do? I wish my father had paid more attention to my schoolwork and made sure I did all my homework, I would have received better grades and maybe I would have had better paying jobs than I have had. He had a somwhat hands off attitude. I think his dad was overbearing and he didn't want to be the same. Kids need a push, they don't know any better and just don't realize it yet. I wouldn't cut out the father-son activities, though, that is probably the best thing for him right now.

1Shirt
11-08-2005, 11:04 PM
There is a bumper sticker that says "Take your kids hunting and you won't have to be hunting for your kids". Grades can be improved, and maybe he needs a coach or some outside help, and you might want to consider that. In the meanwhile, every time you fail to be with him in the field is a lost memory for both of you. Just my thoughts!
1Shirt

woody1
11-08-2005, 11:07 PM
He got his report card today and it was not the best he has had and I know he can do better.

My question and dilemma is, should I with should I take away hunting and shooting from him until he improves?

Does anyone have any thoughts, ideas or suggestions?

Bigscot
Good advise and Charger is right. IMO do NOT take away those father/son opportunities. Here's a thought, rather than taking away anything, perhaps dangling a carrot........ a reward for doing better? Regards, Woody

waksupi
11-09-2005, 12:09 AM
I would guess he may be at the age, that hormones are starting to surge, and he is a bit confused about things. Take time to talk with him whenever possible, and really listen.
I was pretty much worthless in high school, as I was bored to death. History was especially abhorant in the way it was taught. My senior year instructor was very much surprised to find me as one of the lecturers at his continuing education course a few years later. When asked, I told him he was a good teacher, but I wasn't learning anything I considered useful, so didn't pay much attention. I wonder if this is what is going on with your son?
Kids have pressures in school, that we never had to face. You just need to do your best to help him through the mine fields, and make a good example of yourself to him. This is what sinks in better than anything, and regardless of the rocks in the road as a teenager, he will have a strong charector when he grows up, as long as he sees it at home.

NVcurmudgeon
11-09-2005, 12:33 AM
Don't take away the outdoor activities. They are the golden passport to your son's world. Talk to him, but keep your lectures for very serious things. Listen to him a lot, he will let you know what he needs.

versifier
11-09-2005, 12:36 AM
While there are number of things you can do to encourage better grades, taking away the quality time you spend together isn't one of them. It will only drive a wedge between you. Children need to be loved without conditions. That doesn't mean you can't be disappionted by poor performance. If he doesn't get through high school, he's going to be flipping burgers or pushing a mop, etc., and living in a roach motel for the rest of his life, unless you plan on supporting him. He needs to clearly understand the consequences. Gone are the days when a young man could drop out of school and get ahead by working hard. Today we need serious technical skills to get anywhere in this world. Seriously consider limiting television, movies, computer/video gaming, IMing until his grades improve. We pulled the cable more than a dozen years ago and ended up with three honor students, but every family is different. Take a more active role in his homework by asking him to show you his assignment book and showing you the completed work. Increase the time you spend with him as a reward, buying/loading him more ammo to practice with, teach him to reload (if you haven't already), bring one of his friends (of either sex) shooting, too. These are the most important years in both of your lives and they will pass too quickly! Make the most of them while you can. :D

Wayne Smith
11-09-2005, 09:19 AM
Well, we all agree, and I'll chime in as well. Don't take away father/son time. Do institute learning opportunities, of all kinds. At his age schools do not teach GPA and it's importance and the fact that it can be manipulated. Every report card sit down with him and figure his GPA. It will be very enlightening. Then relate that to whatever it is that he wants to become today. (It will change, don't worry. The average college student change majors three times before they graduate!) The thing to encourage is dreams/goals that include education and excellence.

He needs encouragement and and relevance more than discipline at this point. He's a good kid, build on that. Make his studies relevant to his goals, even if it's only that he needs an A to keep the GPA up and needs the GPA to get into the good college. Recognize that he may have some specific learning problems and a C may be the best he can get in one class (Math for me!) but can be compensated for by a couple of A's in the ones that come easily.

The basic principle is that learning is fun! Any learning. It takes a bad teacher to make learning something new drugery. Camping skills, hunting skills, shooting skills, reloading skills, all are learning and learning is fun. School can be fun if he focuses on what he's learning and not on the fact that he has to be there.

7br
11-09-2005, 10:00 AM
My 11 yr old son periodically goes through the bouncing grades issues himself. Like your son, he is very level headed and fairly intelligent. Last year, he was not doing very well in math. It basically boiled down to a couple of issues. First issue was that he wasn't talking with his math teacher.

Once we got that taken care of, we realized that the math teacher wasn't very good at teaching. His idea of teaching was to give a 5 minute explanation of the subject and then assign three or four worksheets on it. Questions over the subject were greeted with "You should have been listening". We had a discussion with his home room teacher and got him moved to a different math class. His grades went from a D to an A. Granted, the class wasn't as "accelerated", but it was still on grade level.

My wife and I learned several lessons.
1) If you are talking with the teachers,your kid knows that you care and will realize that maybe he should care also.
2) If you are talking with the teachers, the teachers know you care and will put a little more effort into teaching your kid.
3) Sometimes your kid is right and the teacher does stink.
4) Treat this as a problem for him to solve. Let him propose solutions and discuss them with him. Let him implement them if possible. (I doubt the school admin would allow Jake to switch classes because he asked)
5) Not all education happens because of the teacher's lesson plan. There are a few jerks in this world and you have to deal with them.
6) Not all education happens in the classroom. A broad knowledge of how the world actually works is a wonderful thing.

Good luck

sundog
11-09-2005, 10:58 AM
Bigscot, use your time with your kids to reinforce the important stuff (like education) without dwelling on it. I've had several good sessions at the loading bench with one of the grandson's talking about chemistry, physics, and math, as it related to ammunition and shooting. Practical application related to classroom lessons - reinforces the need to learn. You could see the light bulb brighten as it sunk in. And, we had a good time loading ammo that we'll have a good time shooting later. The activity could be just about anything. I've always believed in responsibility is required and privileges are earned, but that only works when leadership is by example. Not all kids learn the same, doesn't mean they're 'stoopid'. Communication is required. Your goals for them may not match their goals for themselves (they may not even know theirs yet). sundog

Char-Gar
11-09-2005, 11:25 AM
I echo the thoughts of Waksupi and others. Grades often don't mean anything. However kids do need to be pushed to graduate and go on to more education if that is possible.

My Jr. High and High School grades were at the bottom of the class. The truth of the matter was that the material was so boring and simple that I could get a c- without listenings or opening a book and I didn't see any reason to spend any more time with that nonsense than necessary.

However, not going to college was never considered an option in my family, so I went and found a different world. I fell in love with learning and went on to get a Bachelor's degree, Master's degree and Dr. degree.

I saw my kids going the same way and I made certain they had grades good enought to get them into good colleges, but did not push them beyond that point. I spent most of my parenting energy on their character and values.

It seems to have worked as my daughter (age 31) just received her P.hd in Industrial Psychology and the son (age 28) has a Master's degree in geoscience and works for British Petroleum at a starting salary bigger than my salary after 34 years in the same work. They are both solid folks who have chosen top notch spouses.

Grades are important, but not as important as developing character, values and the ability to think criticaly. These things are taught by parents and not by educational systems.

shooter2
11-09-2005, 12:19 PM
Keep all the good relationships you can with you son. Peer pressure will erode them easily enough if you do not. The camping trip is a great idea.

My thirteen year old granddaughter is bright and home schooled. My daughter just could not get her interested in math until she changed the lesson plan from one supplier to another. When she hit algebra she blossomed and now finds math fun and excels. Based on that sample of one, which is statistically shakey I know, I would go and talk to the teacher to see if there are alternatives. If your son is in a public school there may not be much in the way of alternatives. You might also consider a tutor for those subjects where he needs help. ADHD seems to be pretty common in kids today and you may look into that as a possible problem. I seem to recall that Einstein also had some trouble is school. Not because he wasn't bright, but becasue he was bored silly. In any case, keep your good relationship. He is at a difficult age and what he's going through is probably only temporary. FWIW.

No_1
11-09-2005, 07:06 PM
Biscot,

I will agree with the others here. I was a problem child when it came to school (and other things). I got lost along the way somewhere.....
I found myself and turned out alright. In school I was a sleeper cell (at least that is the story I believe). But to be honest, by the time I was in 5 grade I was bored shi*less. Only thing on my mind was cars. My mom stayed in my backside telling me to just finish this year and pass all you can. This went on until I graduated high school. Once finished there I did some college time and then a career with Uncle Sam that is still thriving. The key to my success was there was always someone there telling me they believed in me. They listened to my problems and offered advice but generally they believed and that is what it took. Do not get me wrong, I got my *ss beat silly many times but that is not the thing that got me straight. Tell him you love him, spend time with him, listen to him but do not try to solve his problems (ask if you can help). He is at a point that he needs to prove himself (for himself) that he is a man. Spend time with him because when he gets older, your time with him will shorten. Find common ground and use it to gain his trust again. Tell him you love him....

God bless,

Robert

eka
11-09-2005, 08:49 PM
There are so many different approaches to deal with this kind of thing. Only you know what your son responds to best. Some people respond better with rewards and some respond by earning privileges. With our two sons, we tried to never take activities that served to provide an outlet for stress, building social skills, teaching responsibility etc. This was usually in the form of athletics and outdoors activities. One of the major things we have always taught them is the importance of exercise and making healthy lifestyle choices. It seems hunting with your son serves a lot of this in your family. I would be maybe looking for something in the line of hunting that he wants. Maybe he would like a new scope or a nice hunting pack, or a nice pair of boots. In order to earn this, he would have to achieve some reasonable goal associated with his school performance. Of course it doesn't have to be tied to hunting, it could be that he earns an outing with a couple of friends to the movies etc. Get creative. I think with a little thought and creativity you will be able to devise a workable solution without taking away from the father-son time.
Good luck!!

floodgate
11-09-2005, 09:17 PM
The reward to all the effort od parenting, is when the kids come back as adults, and you realize they're the kind of people you'd want as friends - even if they weren't family! We made some mistakes raising a son and daughter, but they straightened out and came out just fine.

Actually, one of the biggest thrills is when you realize your child is teaching YOU something new you din't know, building on the start you provided.

Makes it all worth-while!

floodgate

Bigscot
11-09-2005, 11:31 PM
I want to sincerely thank all of you for responses. They have been very meaningful and helpful and were in the direction I wanted to go.
Like I stated originally he is a good kid. He and his sister are my pride and joy and I love them very much. I feel and hope this is a short lived phase as this is his first year in middle school. I have already asked if he wants to go hunting on Saturday and he said he does. He wants to go after squirrels. I weened him on squirrels and we enjoy hunting them as much as anything else. So it looks like if a few more leaves fall we will be going after the deadly and dreaded squewack. My daughter may go too. At 8, she has been hunting with me a couple of times already. I call her my Huntress.

Thanks again to a great bunch of Casters.

Bigscot

Abert Rim
11-10-2005, 12:23 PM
Bigscot, you got some great advice here. My stepson was 12 in July, and he has a hard time staying focused even though he is plenty bright. Last spring he brought home a report card with some C's and a D. Turns out he wasn't handing in assignments even though he had done them, thanks to being an 11-year-old space cadet. When pressed, he said he thought C's were fine because they were average, as in "regular". We disabused him of that notion, and made clear he had a future flipping burgers at that rate. We emphasized that he needed to do his homework, turn it in on time and do the best he could, and we would ask no more. His mom also promised him a $100 bill for his first straight-A's report card. Nothing like an added incentive, as he will make her cough up the cash next week, it looks like.
Quite a turnaround for a kid who formerly thought coasting to a C was acceptable.
I would agree with the others that the last privilege you want to withhold is spending quality outdoors time with your son. Cut out the TV, Internet and video games first.
Good luck. Boys can be a handful at this age -- or at least trying to figure out where their heads are at.

StarMetal
11-10-2005, 12:27 PM
Albert

I love your analogy of flipping burgers. I say about the same thing to my son, except I call it he's going to be a "McDonalds Engineer". hahahahahaha

After reading this thread you fellows can't hold a candle to my kid problem. Right now he's out of school, suspended temporary for supposely threatening another student. This is light of a recent school shooting in Knoxville, TN.

Joe