1891 Argentine Mauser

[Battis]

I'm looking at an 1891 Argentine Mauser. All matching numbers - bolt, receiver ,stock, barrel, etc. Everything is in great shape, except the bore. The description on the tag says "Poor bore." I looked down the bore and it's pretty nasty looking, though the rifling looks strong. It might or might not clean up. At what point, by looking down the bore, is it not worth it?
$225.00.

[CHeatermk3]

With strong lands chances are that it will shoot jacketed OK. You might get a better feel for the bore's condition if you could run some solvent on a properly sized patch and jag thru it--may just be powder fouling and closet crud.

You could also ask for a reduction in price for poor bore condition. Go over to Gunbroker and see what the Argies are going for an a guide to value...Good luck!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Good advice. If it wasn't for the bore condition the price would be about right. Try running a patch through it, and then if it looks good enough to take a chance on and you buy it you may be surprised if you fire some jacketed bullets through it and then clean it again.

[TNsailorman]

Sometimes even pitted bores will shoot good. I bought a 1917 Eddystone some years ago on an auction site and when I got the rifle my heart sank. It was as described on the outside(very good) but the "good bore" part was at best a guess on his part. Long story short, I scrubbed the bore good with Sweets Bore cleaner over and over. It took several days to get years of neglect out of the barrel. When I finally got it clean, it was pitted, little fine pitts all in the bore. I decided to take it to the range at least one time before I got rid of it. I kept it several years and it shot well for me with jacketed bullets from 165 to 180 grains. I ended up selling it to a local fellow who wanted it for a Christmas present. james

[Battis]

A salesman ran a dry bore snake down the barrel and, as predicted since it was dry, nothing changed. Great looking rifle otherwise. I'll give it another look, see if I can run a wet patch down the barrel.
After searching around, that price seems to be on the low end, which is great only if it's a good shooter.

[Scharfschuetze]

There are enough of 'em around with good bores to bother with one with such a bore.

It's your money, but...

Emptor Caveat!

[Texas by God]

All matching, unBubba'd,- I'd chance it. Perhaps cleaning is all that's needed. Maybe lapping.

[nekshot]

All matching, unBubba'd,- I'd chance it. Perhaps cleaning is all that's needed. Maybe lapping.

me too !!!

[arlon]

I've kicked myself more than once for selling my Argentine Mausers. If I saw one that was all matching and still had rifling in the bore for $225, I'd argue the price and buy it anyway... So little to loose. Resell it for that pretty easily I think if the bore didn't clean up enough for you.

[TNsailorman]

I looked for a good example of a shooter 91 for several years but all the gun shops that I frequented in my little area had mix master versions that were in pretty bad shape and yet they wanted a premium price for them. Gun shows were even worse. james

[Battis]

I got the rifle last night. It's in great shape. The bore is cleaning up well - it will take awhile but it should be a good shooter. All matching numbers (even the cleaning rod).

[Moleman-]

Congrats! It even has the better bolt sleeve with the wings that block off the gas coming down the left bolt rail in the event of a case/primer rupture.

[whelenshooter]

I sold a complete '91 but with a non-matching bolt two weeks ago for $200 and probably should have priced it higher based on the quickness with which the guy bought it.

[Battis]

It even has the better bolt sleeve with the wings that block off the gas coming down the left bolt rail in the event of a case/primer rupture.
Good info. Thanks.
From what I've read, RCBS dies are the best for this rifle...(?)

[CHeatermk3]

RCBS dies are always a good choice, especially for a milsurp--if you want to tailor your loads for a specific chamber and boolit it may be that you'll want to go with the Redding bushing neck sizing setup--I've gone from the Lee collet to the Redding dies for my M1917 30-06 with a marked improvement in accuracy.
YMMV...You'll not see much better ammo unless your brass is of superior quality to begin with--Great score btw--I'm jealous!

Enjoy your new Argie!

PS-
There's prolly a heap of copper, powder and carbon fouling that you'll want to remove--I recommend a product called "Sharp shoot-R brushless foaming bore cleaning solvent and also get the applicator spout, sold separately for $1.99--this stuff works great and 1 can is plenty for several milsurp reclamation projects.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/784639/sharp-shoot-r-wipe-out-brushless-foaming-bore-cleaning-solvent-5-oz-aerosol

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/237658/sharp-shoot-r-wipe-out-applicator-spout

[Battis]

I've been using the Gunslick foam and it seems to work pretty well. I'll also use Ed's Red and some ChoreBoy copper pads. It's looking really good so far.

[EDG]

That is correct. Lee dies are too long in the body by about .010. I have both and 3 of the 1891s.
All of the 1891 have exactly the same chamber length so I can use one die setting to FL size cases for all 2 rifles.


Good info. Thanks.
From what I've read, RCBS dies are the best for this rifle...(?)

[Larry Gibson]

That is correct. Lee dies are too long in the body by about .010. I have both and 3 of the 1891s.
All of the 1891 have exactly the same chamber length so I can use one die setting to FL size cases for all 2 rifles.

In past years I've shortened several Lee FL sizers so they size the 7.65 cases correctly for the Argentine. They were made to 7.65 Belgian chamber specs which have upwards of .010 longer headspace than the Argentine 7.65 chambers. Haven't done any in a while because apparently Lee is now making them to fit the Argentine chambers. RCBS dies are correct as are the Lyman dies I have. I also shortened a Redding 30-06 Bushing die so I can NS with bushings the 7.65, 303, 7x57, 7.7 Jap and a couple other similar cases.

Larry Gibson

[EDG]

There is an old chamber reamer drawing around for a 7.65 Mauser reamer supposedly ordered by Winchester that has a note in the margins that says the 1891 Mauser had .010 longer head space than the 1898/09. I have both rifles and they have the exact same chamber length. Many die peddlers call it the Belgian Mauser or the Belgian and Argentine Mauser.

CIP calls it the 7.65 X 53 Argentine http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page50.pdf

I have a set of the Lee dies, a set of Pacific dies and a CH trim die and the length of the case body is wrong in all 3.
The Lee dies are about .010 too long, and the Pacific and CH (not made by the current company) dies are too short and they create about .030 excessive clearance at the shoulder datum.

Current Norma brass is about .004 to .005 shorter than my 1891 chambers (3).
Current PPU brass and ammo is about .001 to .003 shorter than than my 1891 chambers.




In past years I've shortened several Lee FL sizers so they size the 7.65 cases correctly for the Argentine. They were made to 7.65 Belgian chamber specs which have upwards of .010 longer headspace than the Argentine 7.65 chambers. Haven't done any in a while because apparently Lee is now making them to fit the Argentine chambers. RCBS dies are correct as are the Lyman dies I have. I also shortened a Redding 30-06 Bushing die so I can NS with bushings the 7.65, 303, 7x57, 7.7 Jap and a couple other similar cases.

Larry Gibson

[Battis]

I ordered these dies:
RCBS 7.65 mm x 53 Belgium Mauser F L Die Set.
RCBS 14365 Trim 7.65Mmx53 Ammunition Die
I have lots of 30-06 brass.

[TNsailorman]

Sounds like you are getting it together. Good luck with you 91 and let us know how things work out. james

[Multigunner]

Aren't you glad that many gun dealers are too lazy to run a patch through the bore before setting their price.

[TNsailorman]

Laziness in the right place has its reward for the buyer.

[Battis]

I completely stripped and cleaned the rifle and worked on the bore until it was clean, but still frosted. The rifling is sharp and defined.
I made cases from .30-06 brass, loaded 30 grs and 35 grs H4895, 150 gr jacketed bullets (.311") and headed to the range. Accuracy was very good (shooting at the berm).
I checked the bore after firing only 14 rounds, and the frosting in the rear half of the barrel was pretty much gone. Interesting. Maybe larger bullets would clear more of it.
Great looking and handling rifle, long, lean and slick.

[flint45]

Sounds like you got a great deal 91's are one of my favorites keep shootin.:drinks:

[Multigunner]

The 1891 Argentine Mauser has a great reputation for accuracy, rivaling that of the 1903 Springfield which came along years later.

In one international match the Argentine team very nearly won but they had adopted an early VLD type long nosed bullet invented by the Canadians and while that bullet was superior in windless conditions it proved overly sensitive to cross winds costing them the match.
I remember that since the Argentine team had less support and experience US Army marksmen coached them that year.

[Texas by God]

I got the rifle last night. It's in great shape. The bore is cleaning up well - it will take awhile but it should be a good shooter. All matching numbers (even the cleaning rod).
Battis- what a deal you got! A $225 91 around here has been to Bubba Custom.

[Battis]

I kinda stumbled on that rifle. I had put a Polish P64 on hold a few days earlier and I went back to buy it with my C&R license. The salesman that put it on hold checked the C&R list and it's on the 2010 Addendum. When I went to buy it a different salesman said it wasn't on the list - he checked with his boss and they said, nope it's not on the list, even though I showed them the Addendum list. Anyways, while they were trying to figure it out I checked the rifle rack and there was the Argentine Mauser for $50 less than the P64. It worked out well.

[mac60]

A guy I work with has one that is PRISTINE (perfect bore, unmolested - with bayonet). I offered him $350 and he wouldn't take it.