Dillon Powder measure old vs new

[poacherjo]

I just got an old dillon 550 b and I was talked into buying the quick change kit which included the new powder measure . Well when I go to set it up the return rod that operates the measure won't attach to the new style. The part #593C " throttle clip" that held the rod in place on the old style powder measure bell crank won't attach to the newer one. What's the fix?? If the newer rod needs to be bent then dillon should include this with the kit.

[scattershot]

I have the old setup, and I can't see that the new one with the bellcrank is much of an improvement. What are the advantages?

[poacherjo]

It was designed to keep from throwing a double powder charge. I was researching and some other reloader has created a blog that shows how to turn the new system back to the old because he say's the new system sucks! I have just started the learning curve on this unit . I have always used single stage. I can't comment on it until I get it working. I will have to put the old measure back on until dillon sends me the correct rod to hook it up

[Reddirt62]

I run all mine the old way...hate the new set up. If you want your 550 to run the new style you need to purchase kit #20302 from Dillon.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170406/2878f20ad25a282d23ed4f2a931882dc.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[runfiverun]

I have both types and also like the old style with the spring.
Dillon still sells the springs and such.

I have taken to using rubber bands on the new style,,, just cause.

[poacherjo]

Are the springs part of the no BS policy? Shouldn't have to buy them!

[RIHP]

Call Dillion, when I purchased a new conversion kit the old return rod needed to be replaced. They sent one out no charge.

[M-Tecs]

I have both types and also like the old style with the spring.
Dillon still sells the springs and such.

.

I find the old style to be more accurate even with stick powder. I converted all my new style to the old style.

http://www.ericwesselman.com/DillonPowderMeasure/

[VHoward]

And there happens to be a new "new" powder measure that the powder bar does not return as far as the old "new" or old powder measures powder bars do. This was discovered on a Dillon users group on Facebook. A guy said he had one of these and called Dillon and was informed that's they way they work now and several others chimed in and said they had gotten one of these new ones also. So now there is apparently 3 versions out there.

[dragon813gt]

I converted all four of mine to the new style. After using one I quickly dug the old parts out of the trash. The press was new to me and I thought I was doing the right thing by "upgrading". The press runs a lot smoother w/ the old style. I look in every case so I'm not concerned w/ a double charge.

[Reddirt62]

I converted all four of mine to the new style. After using one I quickly dug the old parts out of the trash. The press was new to me and I thought I was doing the right thing by "upgrading". The press runs a lot smoother w/ the old style. I look in every case so I'm not concerned w/ a double charge.
A guy on another page jumped my bum for doing it, asked me if my eyes were calibrated to see a double charge......told him I prefer knowledge and diligence over "safety" gimmicks.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[VHoward]

I had people jump me for having an XL650 without a powder check. I told them basically the same thing as Reddirt62. I pay attention to what I am doing and what's going on on my press. So I have found no reason to buy the powder check thing. My powder measures came with the failsafe set up and have just left them like that.

[dragon813gt]

A guy on another page jumped my bum for doing it, asked me if my eyes were calibrated to see a double charge......told him I prefer knowledge and diligence over "safety" gimmicks.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

What others do is on them. Sometime mechanical means are the way to prevent a particular process from happening. Other times they are not. I was using a Lee Auto Drum w/ the stupid button on it a few months back. It's supposed to prevent a double charge. Wouldn't you know it , I double charged a case. I take full responsibility because I broke rhythm for some reason. The mechanical safety didn't protect me from my own stupidity. The double charge was caught because I looked into the case. I don't use powder like TItegroup where it would be hard to spot a double charge.

[fatelvis]

I still use the springs on all my Dillon measures. It seems much more positive to me.

[jmort]

"Auto Drum w/ the stupid button on it a few months back. It's supposed to prevent a double charge. Wouldn't you know it , I double charged a case."

The first thing I did was to remove that reset. Run both of my Auto Drums without it. Much better for me.

[poacherjo]

Well I called Dillon this morning and they are sending me the new failsafe system so it will hookup. Now I may want to go back to the springs but I will give it a try first

[alamogunr]

I have 3 setups for the 550 that have the old measure linkage. When I bought an additional setup, it came with the new linkage. I knew that this would be the case so I asked to have the new rod included. I haven't used the new setup yet but the responses here tell me that I don't want to convert the original 3. Thanks!

[poacherjo]

While searching the internet about this Failsafe System I found a quote from Dillon stating that the new system was made for the auto indexing loaders and that it didn't really help with the manual indexing 550's.

[dragon813gt]

"Auto Drum w/ the stupid button on it a few months back. It's supposed to prevent a double charge. Wouldn't you know it , I double charged a case."

The first thing I did was to remove that reset. Run both of my Auto Drums without it. Much better for me.

I didn't remove it because it was brand new and I was seeing if it would run correctly, right out of the box. The first one I had was a massive lemon and I was trying to eliminate as many variables as possible. It's been removed since that loading session.

[Lloyd Smale]

I'm as old school as they come but give me the new design. Theres no way with it the powder measure can hang up and miss a charge.

[L Erie Caster]

I have been using 7 of the old style measures for 23 years on my XL 650. Never had one through a double charge or any other problem for that matter. I don’t see the need for an up grade, but maybe I am not the smartest one around.

[M-Tecs]

I thought the reason for the failsafe measure was to prevent the charge bar from sticking. I don't see how it would prevent a double charge.

[Reddirt62]

I thought the reason for the failsafe measure was to prevent the charge bar from sticking. I don't see how it would prevent a double charge.
It doesn't allow the bar to to move back and reload until the handle is returned to the up position preventing a short stroke double charge.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

30 years ago they can with the black linkage in the pliers. The springs were the return, if something stuck you were throwing squibs and if you short stroked it, you could throw a double.

Some time after that they added a fail safe rod with a new linkage, they were free and if you sent in a machine with the old bellcrank it was returned with the new version. This linkage made sure the measure returned thus preventing squibs from a stuck powder bar.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/Dillon/840a765e-1505-49c7-9a17-b83b7cb3a4e6_zpsohqsw21c.jpg

It didn't save people from themselves if they short stroked though and they could still throw doubles as they were instantly reset with the sprigs. So they came up with the "clunker" linkage. It makes it more difficult to throw either a squib or a double. Once the bar drops a charge, it can only be reset with a tug from the failsafe rod and that only happens when the ram is all the way down.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/gn/Dillon/IMG_20160116_094552_734_zpsgmc1t4be.jpg

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for the explanation. Yes I have issues that caused a short stroke but that brings the process to a complete stop until I correct or resolve whatever issue caused the short stroke. I have compressed air and a vacuum next to the press I am operating. Anything that hangs, binds or jams is analyzed and corrected at the first occurrence. Part of the process is 100% inspection of each case that was on the press. I understand the mechanics of double charging via a short stroke. I don't understand someone short stroking and not noticing it.

[jmorris]

I don't understand someone short stroking and not noticing it.

There are lady's that go full term and give birth without knowing they were pregnant. I am pretty sure no one intentionally loads squibs or doubles, yet we both know that folks load them all the time, for some reason.

Times change and going in the direction of trying to keep idiots from causing harm to themselves, more so to hurt the lawyers, they hire to sue because they were idiots, chances of winning a judgement against them.

Why would a hair dryer have a notice that one shouldn't use it in a bath tub? How about a lighter with a warning to not use near heat or flame? How about child safety caps on arthritis medication that the user must get someone younger to open for them?

[Lloyd Smale]

have to admit I never had problems with the old style on my old square deals. But I like the piece of mind the new one gives and ive never had even a tiny difference in metering with the new one. Dillion is not dumb. They have probably the best engineered progressive presses make. I would have to guess if they put the money into designing this new system it was because they saw a problem with the old system. Might not have been a big problem but it must have existed. There main goal is to make money and they aren't going to throw research and development out there unless its needed. I know that I also load on lock and loads and HAVE seen powder measures stick on them in the past and they use springs.

[gray wolf]

Dillon comes up with an up-grade (improvement ) Gives it to us for free.
I would say it's not a money thing for them.
Could save them in the future (as in a court case )
Don't like it ? don't use it, I say thank you and move on.

[Big Wes]

I have a 550b and I called them about the upgrade, I load several calibers and asked the fellow about the new upgrade , he stated to me that it isn't really necessary, so I continue to use the old ones, and I've never had an issue in over 20 years. Works for me.

[Dan Cash]

The new style measure will work just fine without the rod. Infact, the rod is a vexatious pain in the butt. You may want to add a second spring as used by the old style measures. In about 30 years of using the Dillon 550B, I have yet to use the rod with any measure other than to discover what a PITA it is.

[jmorris]

The new style measure will work just fine without the rod.

Unless you disable the lockout linkage and add return springs that's incorrect.

When the powder measure moves up and drops a charge that linkage with 17838 stamped in it locks the measure from returning until the rod pulls it down at the bottom of the stroke.

Thats how it prevents short stroke doubles.

With the other two styles you can go back and forth in the range of operation of the measure and drop one charge after another without having to move the ram to the bottom to return them.

[VHoward]

I've never used a Dillon powder measure without a failsafe rod. Never found it to be a pain. Am I missing something? Never had any problems with my measures.

[Reddirt62]

My setup. Do what makes you happy.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/8668b714ec896db393c8d5b35716eb73.jpg

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[alamogunr]

As I posted earlier, I have 3 measures with the "old" linkage. Pictures of same posted in this thread show 2 return springs. Mine only have one each. Is one spring original and 2 springs belt and suspenders? I guess I'm asking do old linkage supporters recommend and additional spring?

[Reddirt62]

As I posted earlier, I have 3 measures with the "old" linkage. Pictures of same posted in this thread show 2 return springs. Mine only have one each. Is one spring original and 2 springs belt and suspenders? I guess I'm asking do old linkage supporters recommend and additional spring?
Mine originally came with 2 springs back early 90's.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[jmorris]

My setup. Do what makes you happy.

Yep, that's what I was saying in #31, have to disable the lockout and add the old springs.

And yes they cam with two on the measure back then.

[alamogunr]

Does 2 springs add to the operating effort? Not that I would object if it made things more positive. I'll have to call Dillon and bother that guy that doesn't like to be bothered with stupid questions.

[Hawks Feather]

While this thread is interesting and I have both powder throwers, what I really find interesting is that Dillion is actually giving anyone anything. Over the years I have paid for every replacement part and even the complete pack of parts for the current powder thrower. At the other end of that list is RCBS who has never charged me one cent for many parts over the years. They even replaced a couple of tumbler drums that started to leak. Next time I will have to ask them if this is something that they normally replace without charge. What really took a toll was the shipping on the parts.

I am not bashing Dillon. I do like my 550B, but I could have saved at least $100 over the years on springs, primer pins, extra tubes, etc.

[M-Tecs]

If you order as a spare they will charge you. If you order it as a replacement part for an unserviceable part under the no BS warranty it's free. They have started keeping track to prevent the EBay sellers from raping them but I have never paid for a part for a 450, 550 or 650.

[wrench man]

My 550B must be pushing 20yrs old now?, it came with the failsafe linkage on it, I don't have any issues with it??, those springs look like more of a pain to mess with than the linkage?

[alamogunr]

Did Dillon sell both kinds of linkage for awhile? My 550B was originally purchased jointly by a friend and myself about 20 years ago or slightly less and came with the old style(one spring). Neither of us used it for years, he because of working too much and other interests, me because it was installed in his shop and wasn't convenient. I bought out his interest and moved it to my shop.

I would buy more springs but a half dozen springs might cost $6 and shipping would be $20 or more. I guess I'll keep using the little flashlight.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive been doing this for over 30 years on dillons. Both the old method and the new fail safe rod. I measure my loads by the 100s of thousands not hundreds. Like you ive never had a single problem with the fail safe rod on the dillons ive had that had them. I think the bottom line here is some just don't like change. Theres no doubt that its a good thing. It eliminates the even slight chance your powder measure could hang up. Honestly don't remember it happening on my old square deals with the springs but its happened before with other measures. I cant understand where some come up with the rod being some kind of problem. If it was I'm sure by now id have seen it.
I've never used a Dillon powder measure without a failsafe rod. Never found it to be a pain. Am I missing something? Never had any problems with my measures.

[jmorris]

^ I think that's pretty much it. I was at a party for one of my friends yesterday and his granddaughter came out to ride her bike, she was better geared up for safety than I ever was.

Like the anti seat belt guys that don't want to be trapped if they drive into a lake or want to be "thrown free" of the crash....

[Dan Cash]

Unless you disable the lockout linkage and add return springs that's incorrect.

When the powder measure moves up and drops a charge that linkage with 17838 stamped in it locks the measure from returning until the rod pulls it down at the bottom of the stroke.

Thats how it prevents short stroke doubles.

With the other two styles you can go back and forth in the range of operation of the measure and drop one charge after another without having to move the ram to the bottom to return them.

Evidently there is an even newer un"improvement" in Dillon powder measures whith which I am not acquainted. I bought 3 or 4 new measures several years ago when the improvement craze started. Upon receipt, I assembled one complete with linkage but operation was unsat. As I remember there was one return spring around the measure body and the return spring gizmo on the side of the measure. I ditched the linkages and added one return spring for a total of two springs and marched on. That measure did not lock at any point in its operation.

[Greg S]

I have a 550 I picked up in 86. It has the original measure and occassionally the bar will stick which can be costly for a squib in a 1911. The newer designed measure looks promising especially with ball powders that tend to jam it up which I run two springs with for the ball. I think I've gotten my money outta the measure. I'm going to upgrade and also order the ex-small powder bar.

I have cleaned up and polished the wear groves so many times on the bottom of the channel that the powder bar rides in I think one or two more times I'll be seeing daylight.

[VHoward]

I have a 550 I picked up in 86. It has the original measure and occassionally the bar will stick which can be costly for a squib in a 1911. The newer designed measure looks promising especially with ball powders that tend to jam it up which I run two springs with for the ball. I think I've gotten my money outta the measure. I'm going to upgrade and also order the ex-small powder bar.

I have cleaned up and polished the wear groves so many times on the bottom of the channel that the powder bar rides in I think one or two more times I'll be seeing daylight.
If you send them that powder measure, they would probably send you a new one to replace it.

[shafer44]

Call Dillon, they will fix you up generally. I told them about a problem i had with a used press and they sent me parts to make it like new....FREE

[6bg6ga]

Was there a manditory upgrade to the newer failsafe powder measure linkage? Just bought a used like new 550 with the old style powder measure setup on it. Also purchased a Hornady LNL powder measure for the Dillon and it works flawlessly.

[Sig556r]

Got 2 550s with the new fail-safe config & haven't had a problem with either.
To those who modify the new system by adding spring sans the rod just because they're used to the old system, as long as it works for you fine. But there's a reason good companies practice continuous improvement & most of the time, someone somehow manage to screw up the previous system.
Nevertheless, if user fail to practice diligence, improper charge is always likely, equipment can only deter some misuse, not operator error.

[M-Tecs]

Was there a manditory upgrade to the newer failsafe powder measure linkage? Just bought a used like new 550 with the old style powder measure setup on it. Also purchased a Hornady LNL powder measure for the Dillon and it works flawlessly.

No not mandatory. It was just an so called upgrade that is free. I prefer the old style. I purchase them or trade for them when I find them.

[JimB..]

Was there a manditory upgrade to the newer failsafe powder measure linkage? Just bought a used like new 550 with the old style powder measure setup on it. Also purchased a Hornady LNL powder measure for the Dillon and it works flawlessly.

I’ve been thinking about using a LNL measure on a 650. I have several from my LNL days, and I like them. Just bought the 650 and it looks like I should just be able to screw it in. Any issues with setting it up?

[jmorris]

Was there a manditory upgrade to the newer failsafe powder measure linkage?

No, that’s why I still have all three. I have had a few presses I sent to them over the last 34 years or so for rebuilds, they always came back with the latest stuff on them. So if you like the old stuff, remove it or rebuild them yourself, they will send you the parts for free.

[6bg6ga]

I’ve been thinking about using a LNL measure on a 650. I have several from my LNL days, and I like them. Just bought the 650 and it looks like I should just be able to screw it in. Any issues with setting it up?

It looks like the Hornady does not bell the case mouth on pistol cases like the Dillon does unless I am missing some parts. I set up my 550 for 357mag with the Hornady powder measure yesterday and used old style RCBS dies. I moved the Hornady to the third station and used the FL sizing die followed by the belling die and it works great. Since the 650 has an extra station I don't see any reason it would cause a problem unless your using a bullet dropper and use all the stations.

To be more specific I used a RCBS FL sizing die with a decapping setup in the first die followed by a belling die with the decapping pin pulled out.

[jmorris]

You have to buy the correct powder through expander, PTX as Hornady calls them.

https://www.scheels.com/p/hornady-ptx-powder-drop-expander-.451-lead/09025569988.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy6ze0IGM4gIVk8D ACh1edAAcEAQYASABEgJtQfD_BwE

Dillon calls them powder funnels. Most pistol ones have them built in, most rifle ones do not as the expander is on the decapping pin.

https://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/expander.jpg

Except for the 1050 where the powder funnel is just for the flair/bell as it incorporates the expander into the backup rod for the swage station.

https://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20150414_231942_568_zpsrdhiqruf.jpg

[6bg6ga]

You have to buy the correct powder through expander, PTX as Hornady calls them.

https://www.scheels.com/p/hornady-ptx-powder-drop-expander-.451-lead/09025569988.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy6ze0IGM4gIVk8D ACh1edAAcEAQYASABEgJtQfD_BwE

Dillon calls them powder funnels. Most pistol ones have them built in, most rifle ones do not as the expander is on the decapping pin.

https://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/expander.jpg

Except for the 1050 where the powder funnel is just for the flair/bell as it incorporates the expander into the backup rod for the swage station.

https://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20150414_231942_568_zpsrdhiqruf.jpg

Thanks for the reply. I found a .451, .452, and a .357 expander bushing that is available. Are there any more?

[Gus Youmans]

6bg6ba,

This is probably a dumb question but here goes - do you have the Hornady powder measure mounted on the Case Activated Linkage Kit? If not, that is the answer to your problems.

Gus Youmans

[JimB..]

You need the powder measure stop.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-PTX-Powder-Measure-Stop/dp/B00C1P6E16

In addition to the powder thru funnel.

For cast bullets I prefer the DAA funnel/expenders. I think lathesmith may also sell some.

[6bg6ga]

241295241296

I have everything I need to make it functional

[6bg6ga]

241297241298

It would seem there is a limited selection of bushings that flare the case necks of pistol brass. Looks like the pieces I have are for pistol or limited rifle case charging. At any rate the Hornady has impressed me. If it had a variety of powder funnels like Dillon it would be great.

[6bg6ga]

You need the powder measure stop.

https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-PTX-Powder-Measure-Stop/dp/B00C1P6E16

In addition to the powder thru funnel.

For cast bullets I prefer the DAA funnel/expenders. I think lathesmith may also sell some.

I have what I need in the linkage that is already functional.

[6bg6ga]

Powder measure stop.... I really don't think its needed when the linkage is adjusted correctly.

[El Bibliotecario]

This thread has convinced my 25 year old 550B, like my 25 year old automobile, is worth keeping. In both cases the latest models have too many blasted gadgets added on.

[jmorris]

Thanks for the reply. I found a .451, .452, and a .357 expander bushing that is available. Are there any more?

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/presses/lock-n-load-accessories/case-activated-powder-drop-powder-accessories#!/

[David2011]

This thread has convinced my 25 year old 550B, like my 25 year old automobile, is worth keeping. In both cases the latest models have too many blasted gadgets added on.

Well, YEAH, the Dillon is so new it’s still in warranty. :p

[M-Tecs]

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/240483-source-for-old-style-powder-measure-conversion-parts/

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/29309-update-to-powder-measure-modification-aka-retrograde/

[Baltimoreed]

241504
This is how I did my 550 Dillon measures to work with my Lyman T2 turret press [set up for 45lc]. Just used a screw to hold the two arms together. I like the 550s better than the 450s. One less step, just lift the ram instead of lifting the ram ‘and’ pushing the black button to charge my case.

[1hole]

A guy on another page jumped my bum for doing it, asked me if my eyes were calibrated to see a double charge...

We do have our well meaning web "experts" on everything don't we? :)

I don't/won't charge anything on a press but it doesn't take much calibration for anyone who actually looks to see a "double charge" of anything. Even a light .38 Special target load of 3 gr. Bullseye is quite easy to see if it's been doubled. In fact, most loads will overflow the case if it's doubled!