Commercial 45's without boogered up bases?

[Whiterabbit]

Hi guys,

i traced my accuracy issues to dinged bullet bases for a gun i just don't want to cast for. Shoot fine at 10 yards, good enough at 15, and terrible at 25. I want this to be a 25 yard gun. I need either pbgc's which i never had luck with or i need to find a cheap cast bullet vendor who can get bullets to me with crisp bases. I won't be picky about weight between 200 and 300 grains. Any good ideas?

[Scharfschuetze]

Who made those bullets?

I've probably shot a ton or more of commercially cast 45 SWCs and RN bullets and I've never seen an issue with the bases. Lots of vendors out there selling 45 projectiles in 185, 200, 230 and 250 grain weights. My 45 Colt shoots the 230 grain cast RCBS bullet about as good as any other bullet out there and its general design is available from most commercial casters.

Off the top of my head I'd suggest Oregon Trail bullets in any weight and design that they sell. They manufacture a good product that is normally quite accurate and most any velocity you can get from a 45.

If you're not shooting them fast, you could also try a swaged bullet from either Hornady or Speer. I'm not a fan of those per se, but they get the job done and are usually quite accurate due to the consistency of the swaging process.

A quick Google search for cast 45 caliber bullet should provide you with a page or more of suppliers. MidwayUSA and Graff and Sons usually have a good selection too.

[bedbugbilly]

I have purchased a number of commercial cast over the years in various calibers and can honestly say that I've never had an issue with dinged bases - nor, if a base did have a little ding due to shipping, did it affect the accuracy I was looking for. But that's just me and my experiences. Unless each boolit is shipped in a container where they are individually in a sleeve or holder, they are going to get bounced around during shipping since they are usually shipped "in bulk".

Can you post some photos to show us just how "dinged" the bases of your boolits are?

Also - which gun are you shooting - what are the measurements of your purchased boolits as compared to your slugged bore size and what load are you using? How fast are you pushing them?

Not being disagreeable at all. . . just curious as to how you traced the inaccuracy to "dinged bases"?

I have a 45 Colt SAA (Uberti) and when I got it, I ended up purchasing a variety of "lots" of boolits to use in it as I wasn't going to have the time to cast for it at the time. Various weights - various designs - some commercial cast and some "home cast". Some of them did have dings, etc. from shipping and handling over time but all have shot very well from close up out to 50 yards and I never noticed a difference in the accuracy - I just loaded them and shot them. You mention GC so I'm assuming that you are probably pushing them fast?

Thnx.

[C. Latch]

I'd think you'd have to do some serious dinging to your bullet bases to ruin accuracy at 25 yards.

YMMV .

[ioon44]

Got any pics, what alloy?

[mold maker]

To some shooters, a good self-defence target is a terrible competition target. Just what are you looking for in accuracy?
The 45 is one of the least demanding rounds I load for. Slow fat and soft, just like me.

[Whiterabbit]

I have purchased a number of commercial cast over the years in various calibers and can honestly say that I've never had an issue with dinged bases - nor, if a base did have a little ding due to shipping, did it affect the accuracy I was looking for. But that's just me and my experiences. Unless each boolit is shipped in a container where they are individually in a sleeve or holder, they are going to get bounced around during shipping since they are usually shipped "in bulk".

Can you post some photos to show us just how "dinged" the bases of your boolits are?


Yeah, gimme a few days or couple weeks, I can add targets too. But maybe bullet is enough for now.



Also - which gun are you shooting - what are the measurements of your purchased boolits as compared to your slugged bore size and what load are you using? How fast are you pushing them?

Not being disagreeable at all. . . just curious as to how you traced the inaccuracy to "dinged bases"?


Not taking it as being disagreeable. Gun is a vaquero old model. Accuracy goal is in the black for 100% of shots at 25 yards on a 25 yard rapid fire target (I shoot slow fire). That's about a 6 inch black. Shooting offhand only for this.

I can get there with factory corbon ammunition that uses a barnes bullet. I can also get excellent accuracy with home cast bullets from a lee mold, both the 255 PB mold and the 300 grain with gas check. Both cases the base is excellent, whether via gas check, or a very crisp plain base.

The commercial bullets, I've tried 250's and 300's, bevel base. they are quite dinged from shipping. I'm not sure I have any 255's left (home cast or commercial) but I will have 300's at home.

In short, after experimenting with two powders and four bullets, the conclusion I come to is that the commercial all shoot bad with one exception, and that is the 300 grain bullet with 23 grains of H110 behind it, and the good results there may be from a very small data set because it's NOT fun to shoot that, so it's not a winning load. It may pan out to be poor shooting anyways if I had the same population as I have with the others.



I have a 45 Colt SAA (Uberti) and when I got it, I ended up purchasing a variety of "lots" of boolits to use in it as I wasn't going to have the time to cast for it at the time. Various weights - various designs - some commercial cast and some "home cast". Some of them did have dings, etc. from shipping and handling over time but all have shot very well from close up out to 50 yards and I never noticed a difference in the accuracy - I just loaded them and shot them. You mention GC so I'm assuming that you are probably pushing them fast?

Thnx.

The vaquero is large frame, so the goal is 900-1000 fps with a 300 grain-class bullet, or 1100-1200 with a 225-250 grain class bullet. Anywhere in there is fine, even a bit slower for even nicer recoil would suit me just fine. I'm not really chasing numbers as much as paper target accuracy. 100% @ 6" at 25 yards and I'm good. But I don't want to buy barnes bullets (or worse, Corbon ammunition using barnes bullets are $50 per box of 20) to get there.

[Dusty Bannister]

Are you picking your load based upon velocity and being disappointed, or are you picking the powder and working loads up through the range of pressure and not finding an accurate load? Hodgdon 2017 shows data for the 325 gr CPB (cast performance bullets) LFN PB loads of H-110 from 21.0 to a max of 24.0 grains.

[bobthenailer]

IMO the little divit in the base of the bullet where the sprue was cut a little bit early, has no real effect on accuracy as long as the divit is centered ! off center may be another story ?
But it sounds like you are talking about bad bullet bases in general which would cause accuracy problems , cant recommend a bullet company as I have been casting my own since 1970.

[gwpercle]

I've always been satisfied with Valiant Cast Boolits. I don't have a internet source as I would buy them locally . 500 to a box and no issues with the bases.
Gary

[bedbugbilly]

Ruger . . . (and I have a number of them - not an "old" though)

1. What is your bore size when slugged?
2. What are your cylinder throat sizes?
3. What is your boolit diameter?

Before saying it is the boolit's fault (i.e. dinged bases) - I'd be checking all three of these things. Rugers are known for cylinder throats that are too tight - you can't expect a lead bullet to go through a hole (throat) that is smaller than bore size and then expect it to expand back up to bore size. While this may not be the issue and you may have already checked these things, you don't mention what your bore size is, throat size and boolit size.

I have a New Vaquero in 357. It shot commercial ammo - i.e. jacketed - just fine. Cast boolits? Not so fine. Everything boiled down to throat size, bore size and boolit size. Once those were all "in sync" - no real issues with accuracy if I did my job. And, some of the .358 boolits that I use come out of older molds that don't have "perfect" cavities so the cast boolit I guess you could say "has defects". But they shoot just fine.

My Uberti Cattleman - 7 1/2" barrel - 45 Colt - which in reality should shoot the same as a Vaquero in 45 Colt - has a slugged bore size of .452. The cylinder throats are .454. I shoot my own cast - a variety of designs and weights - and some are "as cast" out of an old Ideal mold that drops at .454 - others drop at .452 and some I size at .452 - and I have a number of different "commercial cast" boolits that I have picked up along the way (that are .452). All I do is tumble lube them all in Paste Wax/Alox. I'm really not fussy if some have defects and dings as they all seem to shoot just fine and I'm usually shooting at 10 to 25 yards and sometimes at 50 yards. Even at 50 yards the gun is much more accurate than I am. Of all the cartridges I reload, the 45 Colt or the 45 Schofield are the easiest to put together and seem to shoot the easiest and I contribute that to proper throat size for cast in relation to bore size. Doesn't seem to matter if I am using Unique, Red Dot, Green Dot or 2F Goex slightly compressed loads (black powder).

[Char-Gar]

I will let others deal with this, but dinged bullet bases is not likely to be the problem.

[ioon44]

It takes a really bad base to cause an accuracy problem, a bullet that bad would mostly likely be culled and not loaded.

[Scharfschuetze]

An interesting test would be to sort and weigh 20 perfect base bullets and then 20 of what you consider boogered up base bullets. Load them up identically and then shoot them from a stable platform at 25 yards and see just what the degradation of accuracy is with the poor v. the good.

It's really the only way to answer just what is going on.