PP'ing for Encore

[Dryball]

I recently came into an Encore frame and thought this would be good for dipping my toes into the PP'in water. I have no idea what caliber I want though. The only parameters I have are I, only, wish to use smokeless (or possibly Blackhorn) and I plan on using this for hunting (out to 300 yds). So, if you were in my shoes...what caliber would you pick?

[Nobade]

You want it to be a rifle or pistol? There are lots of rifle cartridges that are easy to patch for but a real handful in a pistol. You want small bore or big?

-Nobade

[Dryball]

Sorry . I forgot to mention it was for a rifle around 23". I was thinking along the lines of a medium to larger bore round. Was planning on a Bargera or MGM barrel. I thought about the 338 Federal or 358 win but wanted advice from people that know so i can have a head start.

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[Nobade]

Either of those would be a good pick. 35 whelen or 338-06 works too. What do you have the most brass for?

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[Dryball]

I have brass for niether. Thats why this decision is so hard. I have read a lot about patchin and have Paul Matthew's book but no notion as to caliber. I planned on gettin everything i need once the decision was made.

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[Dryball]

Ok...its narrowed down. Between the 338 fed or the 338-06. Twist?

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[Nobade]

Paul Matthews gives great advise regarding the 45-70, but it is really hard to go wrong with it. Just about any combination you try within reason will work well with it. But if you go for higher velocity, small bore cartridges the wisdom contained in this forum will be of much more use to you than his book is. Of course a 45-70 is never a bad thing! And the fact that you can shoot commonly available 45 Colt bullets in them when paper patched does make it even more interesting.

-Nobade

[Dryball]

Thank you Noblade. Im very close. I think I'll go with the 338-06ai. Now i just have to wait on the barrel...then the fun begins

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[Nobade]

I recommend not using Ackley Improved cartridges in anything but bolt action rifles. I know lots of folks do it, but there is just no way to get a sufficient amount of crush on the case to properly support it when it is being formed, which leads to stretched webs and short case life. Your choice, but when you weigh the problems it causes and additional cost for the dies compared to the advantages (especially if shooting cast bullets) I just don't see it.

-Nobade

[Digital Dan]

Agreeing with Nobade on this. You could do worse than a .38-55 if the barrel is twisted for 300-350 gr cast/patched FB bullets with a prolate nose form.

[Dryball]

Very good points. That's why I wanted to kick my idea around here. I never gave the 38-55 a thought. I have one in a Win 94. I swage for that one. Hmm, I still like the 338-06. I should do a poll and whichever caliber wins I go with that. lol

[Nobade]

338-06 works great, I shoot one myself with PP bullets. Just not the AI version, lots of drawbacks and no benefits. 38-55 does work quite well, just make sure you have a properly spec'ed chamber for what you want to do. A poll sounds like fun, no telling what folks will come up with!

-Nobade

[Hardcast416taylor]

Standard .338/06 paper patched or grease grooved or even a `J` bullet loading is a good choice, my action of choice is an 1917 Enfield bolt gun.Robert

[barrabruce]

Hunting what???
Hell a 22lr will get me out to 300yrds.

Something with a case full of powder ,clean burning and safe pressures with the weight /size projectile is what you are looking for .

Ghee easy.

[Dryball]

lol barrabruce. Deer, pigs, paper and steel are my intended quarry. Why? No reason other than I want a caliber that no one around me has and I like to be different. I don't knkow a single soul that paper patches and need something to keep me busy. lol. It's, supposedly going to take only 3 weeks for my barrel and work then I can get to work slugging, ordering a mold, then saving money. I'm sure to have lots of questions once I get "into it"

[Digital Dan]

Dryball, a few thoughts for whatever they are worth.

Paper patching is an interesting and rewarding endeavor, but there is no need to make life difficult just because you can. In general terms, modern bottle neck cartridges were designed around the premise of smokeless powder and jacketed bullets. While there are relatively modern straigtwall cases out there, they mostly came from an era of BP and lead, GG or patched. The fundamental advantage of older designs is found in their long necks, that being very simpatico with lead/paper patch. I'm not saying you can't patch for a bottle neck case, you certainly can, but ask yourself if you really need to go about all the fuss. Think for a moment about all the joy to be had from a chamber reamed for a jacketed bullet and then realizing that you have half your shank below the case neck because the throat is not long enough....and that is just the start of all the fun you might have.

Old school cases rock with paper patch for a reason. They can be very accurate and quite deadly at long range. Ask the buffalo how that worked out for them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/photo%202%202_zps2588rqcx.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/627b4656-cd5c-45f5-a12c-e336e1f16dcd_zpsi3ucunrq.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/PaperPatchDeer009_zps3a52d58c.jpg.html)

The test medium for that last one was a doe deer. The bullet is pure lead, MV ~1,600 fps. It broke both forelegs, 5 ribs and cut the heart in half.

[Digital Dan]

While I'm at it, and I'm not claiming to be the best shot in town, this is one sample of what a .38-55 can do at 100 yards with a 300 grain GG bullet. Offhand............

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Guns/Black%20Powder/Feb17_zps9yxv5o1p.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/muddler/media/Guns/Black%20Powder/Feb17_zps9yxv5o1p.jpg.html)

[barrabruce]

saving money.

:popcorn::shock:[smilie=l::-D:grin::bigsmyl2: HaaaHaaa haa haa haa

[barrabruce]

I use an old turn of the century wildcat 38/55 necked down to 30 cal.
Think it was the first high velocity small bore cartridge.
I sometimes call it my 30-150-32 S Express (s= smokeless)

It suits what I want to do but each to there own.


Don't think I save money.
I haven't bought bullets for years.
Have a supply of old powders I'm using up.
But keep the good stuff in reserve for when I really want to impress myself every now and again.

There are those here that do high velocity full noise stuff in flat shooting cases.
I'm not one of them.
One day .
Maybe when I want my shoulder and ears to ring and sting
Ha

[Nobade]

I like the way you think. Wish this forum had a like button.

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[bearcove]

I would pick a 30-06 based cartridge. The best is the 30-06, but at the other end is the 35 or 375 cal versions and they are the best. Depends on if Elk is your upper end or if Brown Bear is, love them all. Does north america without a belt. But I must admit I have a 375 Ruger Alaskan for a boat gun.