Morning with my Hawken

[54bore]

I finally got a chance to get my .45 'Hotrod' Hawken out this morning, the last time i shot this barrel it was a 'Hotrod' Renegade. This is where this barrel will permanently reside, i had 10 bullets ready for this, Buffalo Arms .444 400 Grain, double wrap onion skin and sized dry through my .449 Sizing die. I also took along Vegetable Fibre and Poly wads cut from my Fred Cornell Press mounted Wad punch. I was shooting 70 Weight grains of Swiss 3F powder, i tried both over powder wad types and could not tell any difference in them, they work AWESOME!! I will no longer be using Wool felt wads. This is the rifle i mounted the new Williams FP Hawken Peep on, Idahoron drilled and tapped the Tang on this rifle for me. I had no idea where it was gonna shoot, but was hoping to get it dialed in with 5 shots and shoot the last 5 as a group, the first shot was high about 16 inches and a couple inches right, i ended up getting it in 3 shots. I hung a new target and started my group, there are 6 shots in this group for sure, something 'WIERD' happened on the tenth and final shot, the rifle barely kicked me and the sound was completely off tone? I have no idea what happened?? I also dont know if this shot is in the group or not? This Target was 104 Yards with my Leica Rangefinder. This is my best 100 yard group to date with peep sights. This rifle flat out SHOOTS!

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[54bore]

A few more pics. How the Wads seat, these things are the kitty's Meow!! Look how nice they seal the bore. I wish Cornell made a press mount Wad punch for .54 Cal

192286 192287

[54bore]

These bullets are swaged, cupped base. If you plan to try these with the 2 wraps of onion skin paper it is IMPORTANT that you send them through the sizer base first, most of them are sharp around the base edge and will cut your paper if you push them through nose first, luckily i caught it this morning when i was loading up to go shoot, I noticed 2 papers cut? Upon further investigation i figured out why and redid them base first. When i tore the papers off i found that only a couple had did this. The bullets are .444 Diameter, 2 wraps of my paper ads 8 thou to the overall diameter bringing it up to .453, my sizing die is .449, so there is very little resistance when pushing them through, but its enough to cleanly slice the paper if there is a burr/edge on the bullet base, EASILY prevented by pushing them through base first.

192306

[waarp8nt]

I'm still waiting on my sights, they should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

Nice shooting...really nice group! Doesn't the one elusive bullet...that one that simply refuses to join the group...just make you want to shoot some more? So close to perfect, makes it tough to pack up and go home.

[54bore]

I'm still waiting on my sights, they should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

Nice shooting...really nice group! Doesn't the one elusive bullet...that one that simply refuses to join the group...just make you want to shoot some more? So close to perfect, makes it tough to pack up and go home.

LOL, YEP seems there's always 1 shot that strays, that was my very first shot of the group, the other 5 or 6 made a nice little ragged mess! I can't get the 10th and final shot off my mind, i have no idea what caused that?? I swab between shots everytime i shoot, i NEVER use a 'wet' patch, i get the patch wet but then squeeze it between a dry towel, when i get to the 'crud ring' i go back n forth a bunch to remove it, maybe i pushed some of it in the Patented breech/Ante chamber and that caused it? Sure was a bummer to end with an oddball shot like that, I didn't have anymore powder or bullets with me to shoot again or i would have, all i could do was go home on that note

[johnson1942]

ok, im a little anxious to tell you this but i think your bullet came off of the powder and was partly up the barrel to make the funny sounding shot. if it was you must check your bore now to see if you slightly ringed it at that point. why do i know this, because the very same thing happened to me years ago. accuracy will be the same but sure sounds like what happened to me. hopefully you didnt ring your barrel. the way to do this check is run a patch down your barrel and if it skips by a easy spot the barrel is ringed on the inside. doesnt need a bulge on the outside to be ringed. mine was near the end and so i took a rifle barrel and cut just behind the ring and recrowned and made a very nice carbine out of a rifle. got six deer with it after that. i hope and pray that isnt it but it sure sounds like it. let us now what you find. it may not even have ringed your barrel but i bet your bullet wasnt on the powder. do you wipe between shots? make sure you do. also the group you got was the example of perfection with pp bullets. if this post doesnt make converts i dont know what will. the example you gave was as good as it gets. again, check your bore for a ring, and if you dont have one consider your self blessed and lucky.

[54bore]

Roger, I actually thought that EXACT thing when i touched it off, You got me thinking again so i just now checked it, its nice tight rifling twisting the rod all the way to the bottom, no odd feeling spots anywhere. Loading these at .449 they load easy but there is definate noticeable resistance and when i get the bullet seated i always ad an extra HARD push to my range rod to make darn sure the bullet is seated all the way, i dont lift and throw the rod like a round ball shooter, as there is no need with a correct fitting paper patch bullet. The only other thing i can think of is maybe a weak charge? I weigh all of my charges by weight, i get an average of what volume i plan to shoot is throwing in actual weight grains and then i pre weigh all of my charges, i usually use my RCBS 10-10 beam scale, but lately i have been using a little Frankford Arsenal digital scale, i check it a few times through out with a certified weight to make sure it is reading accurate, Maybe it read a weak charge? (I never have fully trusted any digital scale, why i resorted to using it? To lazy to walk downstairs and get my beam scale when the little digital is sitting beside my chair) This is the only other thing i can think of? The rifle went off immediately but it was odd, it kicked me slightly, but it was weak, and the report sounded different. From here on i will be using my RCBS Beam scale to pre weigh my charges. I will get back out with this rifle and shoot again soon. I plan to take this gun out and do some long range stuff soon, 300-500 yards if my eyesight allows it

[54bore]

Stewing on this, i THINK i figured it out? Maybe that last bullets paper was cut slightly at the base (like my pictures in post #3) and slid through the paper jacket when i was pushing it down? These new Wads have a fair amount of resistance going down the barrel, as much as the bullet. I start the Wad and get it about an inch or so, then start the bullet and push them together to the powder, so i am feeling resistance from the wad and Paper Patched bullet, it is highly possible that a paper was cut at the base like in post #3 and somewhere down the barrel the paper jacket stopped and i pushed the bullet through it (it's doubtful i would have felt anything due to the resistance from the Wad) if this is what happened it would have left a naked .444 bullet sitting on the wad in a .450 bore, I remember the last Wads i was using were the Poly .60 Thou. The more I think about it, this makes the most sense to me since i had trouble with the papers being cut from the sharp base of these bullets.

When i pre weigh my charges they all go in the exact same size little vials, when i am done pre weighing i look at all the vials to make sure I didn't miss one, i dont think a weak charge would have snuck by me? I would almost bet anything the above is what happened, When i touched it off the Poly Wad would have given up to some degree and gasses would have escaped around a .444 bullet in a .450 bore

[johnson1942]

we will never know for sure but it makes one more aware of each time you load so it its always a perfect load. when the paper has come off of mine ive always felt it.the two mistakes over the years was me shooting remotely and a small aircraft flew over me real low and i got distracted. years ago i was shooting a 42 inch long 45 cal roundball gun. when the plane flew over me i forgot the aluminum ram rod down the bore and it was sitting on the ball. it went like a arrow and even hit the target well. ruined it though. my shoulder hurt for 2 years from the recoil i felt. the second was again a plane went over real low and as i was putting a cast bullet down i only put it in about 6 inches. hit the target well but sounded like what you said yours did. ringed the barrel right there and had to make a 26 inch barrel out of the gun. im very leary of small planes now and never ever want to get distracted again. here is a thought, if your wad is real tight as they should be and you push them down too fast, the air under neath them cant bleed out the nipple real fast and you can get spring back of the wad and bullet as the compressed air is like a spring. could that have happened? what ever happened you didnt ring your barrel and that is good.

[waarp8nt]

Just curious...was there a similar smoke cloud on the odd shot?

[54bore]

Just curious...was there a similar smoke cloud on the odd shot?

Yes, The best i can remember? I would be willing to bet that my post #8 is what happened

[waarp8nt]

Yes, The best i can remember? I would be willing to bet that my post #8 is what happened

That's what I was thinking too. From my limited experience of shooting an improperly seated bullet, the two distinctive features I remember are the sound of the report and lack of smoke.