30 Badger questions

[Redleg11b]

Nobade, badgered, and others, how are the 30 Badgers faring? I am trying to decide between this and a Mag case ran though a 300Blk die. The Badger looks better for cast, which is what I think I want for now. I may go the other way if I want to shoot Jwords though. A few questions follow:
Do you anneal before or after forming? Or even at all?
How has case life been?
How often have you had to resize the base?
Have you tried HP-38/W231?
What is your go to load?
Do you think the 130 soup can is ideal, or would a 165FP (as popular in the 30-30) would be better for subsonic loads?
Are you giving it a firm crimp, light to moderate, or just stuffing it by hand?


I am new to reloading (only about 300 reloads through my press). I have a .357 Handi and a .223 Savage I currently load for. I just started loading for the Savage and am trying to get a fun reduced load. I think the Badger, or load development for the .357 for a plinker would be easier than messing with the .223. I am just hesitant to do forming. The other option is stick with the similar 32-20 and deal with the higher brass cost.

[jmort]

You would probably get more info from the Michigan Liars Club. I hope to see them post in this thread.

[Nobade]

OK, I'll chime in.
Haven't had to anneal the cases at all. Sometimes a very old one will split when it gets necked down, but rarely.

If they don't break at first I haven't had any case failures other than from overloads. I have decided 35K PSI is the limit to load these to, 38 spl brass can't take much more.

I full length size after every firing with the Lee 7.62x25 die.

Don't have any WW231, but there's no reason it wouldn't work just fine.

Don't have a go to load yet. I have shot a lot of them through my rifle using the Lee C-312-155-2R sized to .308 over a compressed load of Nobel TU-2000. (about the same as IMR4198) They are accurate and give reasonable pressure. That load is also powerful enough out of my Contender pistol to use for big bore IHMSA silhouette shooting. I have shot it with paper patch loads, which worked well, but the velocity is low enough that naked gaschecked bullets are just fine. I keep trying to get little 115gr. 32-20 bullets to shoot well but so far haven't gotten very good results from it.

130 Soup Can should work fine. Haven't tried it yet. A hollow pointed #311410 paper patched does work quite well as a varmint bullet. For subsonics, I'd try something like the Lee 200gr. if you have fast enough twist to make it fly straight.

No crimp.

It has been and is a fun little thing to play with, more powerful than its size would indicate, and certainly cheap to operate. It is quite touchy about upper end loads due to the small size, but if you throttle it back a bit it's easy to get along with. I have a friend who is going to build a bigger version of it, using 357 Max brass (now available from Starline) run into a 7.62x40 Wilson Tactical die. I think that will be a more useful cartridge, as it holds enough powder to almost equal 30-30 ballistics and of course can also be loaded light if you desire. Plus you can use an off the shelf WT reamer and singlepoint the rim cut. Either way these little rounds are great fun and I recommend them for anyone who enjoys experimenting a bit. I will keep trying different combinations in my Badger guns just to see what it is capable of, I haven't reached the limits of my imagination yet!

-Nobade

[Hardcast416taylor]

The only down side that I`ve heard from owners of a 30 Badger is the need for a pair of 5 gal. pails when you go shooting. One pail for the empties and the other pail full of loaded ammo you`ll shoot! It is that much fun to shoot.Robert

[NoAngel]

Funny this comes up. I was sizing some cases this morning and found my first bad case. I make all mine from once fired Federal 38 special. The brass had a tiny little crack in the shoulder.
I went ahead and loaded it and will let it hit the ground at the range. I KNOW that particular lot of brass has been loaded a dozen times. It's from the first lot of brass I ever made.
38's are about as cheap and common as brass gets and a dozen loadings.....yeah, the brass life is good. The rest of the lot showed no bad signs but I'll start keeping a good watch on them.

It's worth noting I have really trotted off the beaten path with this cartridge. I've extrapolated load data from almost thin air. DON'T DO THAT! LOL!
I have a ton of HS-7 and Win 571 and it responds VERY well to that powder. I've worked with it over a chronograph and get some pretty surprising numbers. It was originally thought of as a cheaper to load 32/20 but the .30 Badger will beat any 32/20 just because of the superior brass used.
I don't have my book handy but I have pushed this little cartridge well past it's intended use and seen no signs of trouble. Three's nothing to gain from pushing much harder so I concentrate on slower loads now.

Mine is a stubbed barrel on an SB2 H&R rifle frame and has been shockingly accurate. I figured it would shoot well.....not this well!


Ohh, and I have never annealed a single case. Take a clean 38 case with just a hint of spray lube, shove that sucker in a 7,62x25 Tokarev die and pull out a finished case. EASY.

[LynC2]

OK, I'll chime in.
Haven't had to anneal the cases at all. Sometimes a very old one will split when it gets necked down, but rarely.

If they don't break at first I haven't had any case failures other than from overloads. I have decided 35K PSI is the limit to load these to, 38 spl brass can't take much more.

I full length size after every firing with the Lee 7.62x25 die.

Don't have any WW231, but there's no reason it wouldn't work just fine.

Don't have a go to load yet. I have shot a lot of them through my rifle using the Lee C-312-155-2R sized to .308 over a compressed load of Nobel TU-2000. (about the same as IMR4198) They are accurate and give reasonable pressure. That load is also powerful enough out of my Contender pistol to use for big bore IHMSA silhouette shooting. I have shot it with paper patch loads, which worked well, but the velocity is low enough that naked gaschecked bullets are just fine. I keep trying to get little 115gr. 32-20 bullets to shoot well but so far haven't gotten very good results from it.

130 Soup Can should work fine. Haven't tried it yet. A hollow pointed #311410 paper patched does work quite well as a varmint bullet. For subsonics, I'd try something like the Lee 200gr. if you have fast enough twist to make it fly straight.

No crimp.

It has been and is a fun little thing to play with, more powerful than its size would indicate, and certainly cheap to operate. It is quite touchy about upper end loads due to the small size, but if you throttle it back a bit it's easy to get along with. I have a friend who is going to build a bigger version of it, using 357 Max brass (now available from Starline) run into a 7.62x40 Wilson Tactical die. I think that will be a more useful cartridge, as it holds enough powder to almost equal 30-30 ballistics and of course can also be loaded light if you desire. Plus you can use an off the shelf WT reamer and singlepoint the rim cut. Either way these little rounds are great fun and I recommend them for anyone who enjoys experimenting a bit. I will keep trying different combinations in my Badger guns just to see what it is capable of, I haven't reached the limits of my imagination yet!

-Nobade

Since Nobade mentioned the 357 Max. case necked down using the 7.62x40 Wilson Tactical dies, I'll post some pictures. I have the reamer, just waiting for a barrel for my CPA rifle. Nobade suggested calling it the "Honey Badger" LOL
From left to right. .223, 7.62x40 WT, .30/357 Max., .357 Maxium

192256

[NoAngel]

The only down side that I`ve heard from owners of a 30 Badger is the need for a pair of 5 gal. pails when you go shooting. One pail for the empties and the other pail full of loaded ammo you`ll shoot! It is that much fun to shoot.Robert


Whole lot of truth to that. AND, don't let other people shoot it. You gotta wrestle with them to get it back!

[Nobade]

Thanks Lyn, good pic of the bigger case.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[NoAngel]

Redleg,
You can use 32/20 data for the Badger all day and then some. That soup can would do very well.

The best cast bullet I have found to date has been a modified 311291. I machined the mold down to make a 130(ish) plain base bullet. I didn't bother for the weight really, I shortened so that the base of the bullet was still in the neck when properly seated.


NOE also makes a 115g RNFP plain base that is the cats meow also.
I've fed the Badger up to 175g bullet and it does well but mine seems to prefer something in the 115-130g range.

They come out looking like this.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/IMG_0598_zpsbspiqhji.jpg

[NoAngel]

Here's a mess of them I loaded with Lee's 155g
Powder coated over Win571 they shot quite well.


http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/FullSizeRender_zps7rv7ul8g.jpg

I have my dies set in a Lee turret press and they never come out of the tool head. I have the seater set to just barely remove the flare but NO crimp. In a single shot, it's not needed anyway. Unless some adventurous soul were to build a lever gun in .30 Badger I don't think a crimp is ever needed.

I was doing a powder coat v/s traditional lube size test. Powder coat won.


http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/IMG_1299_zpswwvcjw9z.jpg

[dverna]

Redleg,

I PM'ed Edd when I looked into it. He is very helpful and has a lot of experience with this round. Ed did not have a reamer and could not recommend anyone who did----at the time.

The cost was a deal killer for me. Unless you have a lathe or someone to make the reamer it is a custom proposition. In the end, I decided to stay with the .38/.357 lever guns as my plinkers and run 125 gr bullets. The trade off between a less efficient round with the .38 was offset by costs of the conversion and the advantages of a repeater. Cost to shoot is the same. In addition there is nothing simpler than reloading the .38's.

Noangel,
Nice shooting!!! Are those at 100 yards?

[NoAngel]

Pretty sure Manson Reamer has the prints on file and can cut you a reamer.

[Redleg11b]

Thank you for all the replies. It is something I am trying to find someone with a home shop that will let me "help" with the project (pay in beer and steaks after the work is done kind of deal). I smoking for something just like this, and am just having a difficult time justifying the tooling and blank to stub a H&R when I already have a 357Mag the will actually load 360DW without modification. Something new to play with is always fun though. It would primarily be a small game and plinking carbine with a 16.5" barrel.

[Texas by God]

It sounds to me like a great lever action cartridge.........

[corbinace]

:popcorn:

[Nobade]

It sounds to me like a great lever action cartridge.........

If those old 357 mag Marlins weren't so bloody expensive now I would have bought one to rebarrel to 30 Badger already. But at current prices it isn't going to happen! Maybe a Rossi '92 but even those are coming pretty dear these days.

-Nobade

[Hamish]

192519 ( .357 Mag run into .300 BLK die on the right.)

[Redleg11b]

That is a fairly short neck Hammish. If I go that route (less likely at this point), J or plated would probably be easier to work with. My cousin here in Northern IN has "bucketloads" of mag and spcl brass, so I may have to get him into reloading AFTER I get some of that brass.