218 bee getting the most out of cast.

[andym79]

Hi guys I recently got a 218 bee, 24" 1:14 barrel and 55 grain cast bullets.

I have not yet shot any jacketed bullets from it. Results with cast have so far been unimpressive, groups that I got at 50 yards might be acceptable if they were at 100, but not 50.

So far I have tried loads using H4227 and H4198, best groups so far have been achieved using loads of about a grain below Lyman recommendation, at the top end of there load accuracy was poor.

I am wondering if I need a harder alloy (I have been using 3pb/1lino), though I pure lino is not the way to go.

I am also considering using H322 or H4895, an fill the case to near full.

What advise would anyone have for me?

Is good accuracy at 2000fps in a 1:14 barrel 22 calibre realistic with cast bullets?

[richhodg66]

I think it is, but will likely take some work to find out. The good thing about those little, bitty bullets is a little linotype goes a long way.

I have only shot cast through my Hornets and am happy with the results, but I was looking for a .22 rimfire substitute and didn't pursue it beyond fox squirrel head accurate at 25 yards. No idea what eny of them would do with jacketed bullets.

What kind of rifle? I've always wanted a .218 Bee, but brass and ammo are hard to find here. Always seemed like a cartridge that should have caught on better.

[andym79]

A Winchester 92, but its a pretty new barrel. I managed to get 50 pieces of brass, but there is a good chance that is all I will ever have, can make it easy from 25-20 but that is getting hard to find!

[dale2242]

I have found that I have to drive 55 gr. boolits pretty fast to get them to stabilize in my Marlins 1/14 twist barrel....dale

[TCFAN]

My favorite load for my Bee which is a MGM 24 inch barrel with 1-14 twist on a T/C Encore frame is 11.5 grains of IMR 4195 with a NOE 45 grain WFN cast from 1 part of Lino and 9 parts of COWW air cooled sized .225 with BAC lube and a Hornady gas check.

As to jacketed loads I can't beat factory Winchester loads.I got lucky and found 2 boxes of factory loads in a small out of the way gun shop for 30.00 dollars each.

For a 22 Long rifle duplication load I use the NOE 225107 37 grain flat nose with 2.5 grains of bullseye and a small pistol primer.This load will hit a golf ball at 65 yards on demand any time from a rest.

I have found the Bee to be a very friendly cast boolit cartridge..............Terry

[richhodg66]

My favorite load for my Bee which is a MGM 24 inch barrel with 1-14 twist on a T/C Encore frame is 11.5 grains of IMR 4195 with a NOE 45 grain WFN cast from 1 part of Lino and 9 parts of COWW air cooled sized .225 with BAC lube and a Hornady gas check.

As to jacketed loads I can't beat factory Winchester loads.I got lucky and found 2 boxes of factory loads in a small out of the way gun shop for 30.00 dollars each.

For a 22 Long rifle duplication load I use the NOE 225107 37 grain flat nose with 2.5 grains of bullseye and a small pistol primer.This load will hit a golf ball at 65 yards on demand any time from a rest.

I have found the Bee to be a very friendly cast boolit cartridge..............Terry

I really like that NOE 45 grain WFN. I ordered mine all plain based and I use it with 2 grains of Bullseye in the Hornet.

I need to get a 225107 mold one of these days, everybody seems to love it.

[Mk42gunner]

This is a guess, but how long are your 55 grain boolits? They may be just on the edge of being stable, i.e. wobbling just enough to open the group, but not enough to see oblong holes in paper.

Have you got any lighter molds to try?

Are the sights precise enough to make a smaller group feasible?

Shooting from a solid position?

I think a Model 92 in .218 Bee would be a dandy little close range coyote gun.

Robert

[andym79]

This is a guess, but how long are your 55 grain boolits? They may be just on the edge of being stable, i.e. wobbling just enough to open the group, but not enough to see oblong holes in paper.

Have you got any lighter molds to try?

Are the sights precise enough to make a smaller group feasible?

Shooting from a solid position?

I think a Model 92 in .218 Bee would be a dandy little close range coyote gun.

Robert
Theoretically you are completely right i never even considered that little bullet going at 1600-2000fps might be unstable, but at .65" apparently it is. It needs either a 1:13 twist or 3500fps. I should have just got a 22mag!

It worked in my 223 so I never gave it thought, that has a 1:9 though.

So its either a new mold or jackets pushed hard. I wish it had a 1:12 twist.

My 55 grain j won't work any better, they are .68". Has anyone tried the 40 grain z-max they don't cost too much.

None of this explains why 1800fps was better than 2100 though.

The position was solid and with tang and aperture sights i do better with my 25-20 25-35 30-30 38-40 and 38-55. The only rifle I get worse groups with is my 32-20.

[GooseGestapo]

I've shot "some" cast through my Bee since getting it last November.
I bought 200 Winchester cases from dealer I got rifle from on separate deal. 100 were loaded with what appeared to be the RCBS 55gr FNGC. No idea of alloy, etc. Some were marked 5.0 Unique , others 5.5gr Unique. I pulled one to verify before shooting them.
They were unremarkable. Miking driving band suggested.225" sizing. Groups ran 4-6" at 50yds.
Quality of bullets is what I'd throw back in the pot...

Ive loaded a few of my bullets. I have Lee Bator 50gr, Lee 55gr FNGC, and an ancient Lyman 22541 (that's right!) I bought new in '80's. It casts perfect 49.5gr bullets.
These over4.8gr Unique have been best of cast in my Marlin 1894CL to date. If my Hornet is any indication, #2400 will be THE powder since I've got less than 8oz of IMR4759 left. Can't bring myself to "use it up" cause when is gone, ITS GONE!

However, most of my loading/shooting has been with jacketed, getting to know the Rifle/cartridge.
I guess I know what I'll shoot at the range this Afternoon.

Since "discovering" the Armscor 40gr JHP at Grafs for .06 each (@1,000), I can't see spending half that for just a gascheck...
Bless Dave Emary of Hornady! New Bee ammo, brass; new .25-35 ammo, bullets, and brass!!!
Got 100 .257" 110gr FTX coming in tomorrow!
Too much fun, not enough time!

[Soundguy]

my bee is a tack driver.. mind you i'm loading j-words in it. me and my buddy shoot flies that land on the 100 yard target with it.

[Mk42gunner]

Theoretically you are completely right i never even considered that little bullet going at 1600-2000fps might be unstable, but at .65" apparently it is. It needs either a 1:13 twist or 3500fps. I should have just got a 22mag!

It worked in my 223 so I never gave it thought, that has a 1:9 though.

So its either a new mold or jackets pushed hard. I wish it had a 1:12 twist.

My 55 grain j won't work any better, they are .68". Has anyone tried the 40 grain z-max they don't cost too much.

None of this explains why 1800fps was better than 2100 though.

The position was solid and with tang and aperture sights i do better with my 25-20 25-35 30-30 38-40 and 38-55. The only rifle I get worse groups with is my 32-20.

Sure it does, Less speed equals less wobble. (Maybe)

It has been a few years since I actually saw .218 Bee ammo on the shelf, but as I remember it always came with 46 grain JHP or JSP bullets, from both Remington and Winchester. I don't recall ever seeing any other Bee ammo.

I always thought it was strange that the Bee came with 46 grain bullets while the .22 Hornet used 45 grainers. Simple economy of scale should have suggested that both cartridges use the same projectile.

Anyway, getting back to the subject at hand i.e. cast boolits for your Bee-- Know anybody in Australia with a ~45 grain 22 caliber mold?

Robert

[shdwlkr]

Get some 32-20 brass and resize it to 218 bee same case just different size bullet used. the 218 bee, 25-20 and 32-20 all use the same case. When you go to the obsolete cartridge world you have to look what other calibers use the same or close to the same case. Good luck let us know how you make out

[CHeatermk3]

I've shot a lot of 218 but only jacketed--in a Marlin m94 and a converted H&R hornet. Both shot good with 50gns and under bullets. Hornady makes a 45gn HP Bee bullet that really works well over AA1680 and/or IMR 4227. All the jacketed loads did better at close to max charges.
HTH

[andym79]

Well I did a pretty big testing session the other day involving 5 different powders and 15 loads.

I got to think the 218 bee should be a excellent round, given the right load. It is, if I feed it with 12.6 grains of Reloader 7 behind a RCBS 22-055SP @ about 2000fps. At 100 yards it was sweet, so I loaded the same load up again and it was repeatable. I guess the slow powder launched it softly enough and got it up to a high enough velocity to stabilize the bullet.

This adds further weight to my belief that it best to use the slowest suitable powder that you can, lower pressure and a much better fill!

Anyway, here is the group which was repeated a week later!