*crying* Swiss K31 and Milsurp Prices

[iplaywithnoshoes]

I just took a look on Gunbroker. I was looking for a clean M91/30, Swiss K31 or Yugo Mauser. Mostly, I'm just looking for a great shooter, not a looker. All have become super expensive within a month of me previously browsing.

Late K31: Roughly 800-1500 USD
Hex Mosin: 400 USD (Nuts)
M48: 400 USD (What)

The worst part is that I the pictures posted are horrific and I cannot even work the bolt or look down the bore. Looks like this is the end of the milsurp market for me. :(
I know that this phenomenon is simple market economics but it's a little disheartening I guess.

/end rant

shoe

[spfd1903]

Never won the lottery but glad I got into the milsurp rifles in the late 90's. Brand new Chinese SKS for $100. Romanian SKS for $130. M44 Mosin-Nagant for $89. Two 91/30's ... $125 each. Lee Enfield Mk 4...$100.

[dverna]

If you want a great shooter that does not cost a lot....get a Savage. As added bonuses, you get to pick a caliber and can easily mount a scope on it.

[Speedo66]

I was at a show this past Sat. Not sure which model, but a very clean Swiss rifle, 7.5, with nice wood and an unbroken toggle sold for $325. The dealer selling it had another when I left.

If the original poster is interested, shoot me a PM. I took his card, and can give you the dealer's phone #. He had other milsurps also at decent prices.

[OptimusPanda]

Or just the dealers at shows who try and get top dollar +30% because they think (often correctly) some moron will bite. Last example I saw was a beat to snot argentine Mauser. Tag looked like $185, enquirer further the guy says "oh that's a 7 not a 1". Nope.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

If you want a great shooter that does not cost a lot....get a Savage. As added bonuses, you get to pick a caliber and can easily mount a scope on it.

That formula I am familiar with. I have two scoped factory bolt rifles and a custom single shot build with irons. All proved quite accurate to me. There is some allure however to tuning and development with a rifle from WWII with open sights; in particular, something as precise as a K31.

shoe

[John Allen]

Am I missing something on the Swiss K31 what is pushing the prices of these so high?

[mcdaniel.mac]

Am I missing something on the Swiss K31 what is pushing the prices of these so high?
Surplus circlejerks. A new surplus rifle gets imported super cheap and writers start telling tales of how great they were, so everyone has to have one, so they import more, prices start to go up, and then supply starts to run low. Happened with Mosins, now K31s. The K31 also has the advantage if being a really neat design and not a total turd like the Mosin.

[Scharfschuetze]

That's interesting. I guess it all boils down to supply and demand so that's to be expected I guess. I've always told my wife that all my GI rifles were an investment that would keep up with inflation. Perhaps they're doing better than that.

[3006guns]

Never won the lottery but glad I got into the milsurp rifles in the late 90's. Brand new Chinese SKS for $100. Romanian SKS for $130. M44 Mosin-Nagant for $89. Two 91/30's ... $125 each. Lee Enfield Mk 4...$100.

Late eighties, when the ATF opened "the window" and the ships offshore started unloading:
AK's.....................$190 (new, Chinese, folding or fixed stock)
SKS's.................$69 (very good)
Yugo Mausers.....$49 (very good)
Swede Mausers...$69 (very good)
91/30's and Finns..$39 (very good)
7.62 x 39 ammo....$59/1200 rd. crate

I was in a "warehouse" back then and it was a shooter/collector's dream come true. Thousands of surplus rifles, slathered in cosmo and stacked six feet high, like cordwood on pallets. My FFL buddy said I looked like a frantic bee trying to pollinate......kept flitting from rack to rack, trying to pick out the best for myself. It was maddening.

I purchased several of each at the prices listed back then. Like a fool, I passed up an entire CRATE of Japanese Arisakas....mixed type 99's, 38's, 44's for $200. There must have been twenty rifles in there.

I doubt we'll ever see days like that again. Remember, these guns were not "surplus", they were "war reserves" for most countries and that's why they were in such nice shape. I only bought two of the Swedes.......I should have bought ten.

[RogerDat]

Woulda Coulda Shoulda ah yes hindsight is always 20/20 for me it was a Garand at $200 few days before Clinton stopped allowing US milsurp rifles to be sold. I put a deposit on it, but did not want to charge remainder so agreed to go to pick up and pay balance. He was simply not available. Sent me my money back. Saw him at a gun show told him he lacked class for not honoring his deal when prices jumped. Just loud enough to make sure tables around him heard what he had done. Small satisfaction, would have rather had the rifle.

[swheeler]

Wish I would have bought a dozen of the beech stocked ones for 89.00, guess the one I have will have to do.

[Ken in Iowa]

I have a nice Tula 91/30 on S&S right now. Not a hex but not $400 either.

[M-Tecs]

Wish I would have bought a dozen of the beech stocked ones for 89.00, guess the one I have will have to do.

I purchased a total of 24 mostly walnut. Sold most of them way to soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GARD72977]

I have no intentionon helping drive up prices. I just dont see where these forgien rifles are worth the asking price.

[3006guns]

I have no intentionon helping drive up prices. I just dont see where these forgien rifles are worth the asking price.

They're not. Demand is driving the prices up and ten years ago if you told me a Mosin could be worth $300 due to rarity, I'd have laughed in your face. Still might......it's a good, dependable rifle but it's still referred to as a "Russian musket" by older collectors.

[C. Latch]

Late eighties, when the ATF opened "the window" and the ships offshore started unloading:

SKS's.................$69 (very good)
Yugo Mausers.....$49 (very good)
Swede Mausers...$69 (very good)
91/30's and Finns..$39 (very good)
7.62 x 39 ammo....$59/1200 rd. crate

I purchased several of each at the prices listed back then. Like a fool, I passed up an entire CRATE of Japanese Arisakas....mixed type 99's, 38's, 44's for $200 bucks. There must have been twenty rifles in there.

I doubt we'll ever see days like that again. Remember, these guns were not "surplus", they were "war reserves" for most countries and that's why they were in such nice shape. I only bought two of the Swedes.......I should have bought ten.

I remember those prices. None of those rifles interested me then, and, thankfully in a way, they still do not.

But here's what's interesting:

If you'd taken the money those items would have cost, and invested it at 8% annual yield, which is a pretty reasonable rate, every dollar you invested in 1989 would be $10 today, and you could easily buy each of those items, many of them twice, with the same money, after interest.

Point is, you didn't miss much.

[funnyjim014]

Supply and demand. The first time they were sold , it was from dealers who got them from importers. Now that the supply has been gone for quite some time all the current surplus is from other people's collections. What is for sale is trickled in a bit at a time and grabbed quick causing high prices. No supply-high demand. Same thing as the .22 shortage

[Scorpius]

Wonder what my unissued / unfired k31 would bring :-) mahhhh don't need to know, wouldn't part with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[samari46]

Gunshop owner had a rack with used Swedes @75 bucks a pop. Bought 4 and still have them today and that was 25 years ago. If you are looking for a nice K31 check out Simpsons Ltd as they have pics and descriptions. Frank

[M-Tecs]

It's been a while since Simpsons Ltd. has had anything other than K31 Sniper rifles

[jim147]

I think my brother has a hex mosin for sale I'll check with him.

I remember seeing a whole pallet of new mak-90's for $80 or $90 bucks apiece. I have one it has had 30 rounds down the barrel.

[HollowPoint]

I think back when I bought my Enfield No.4 MkI I paid $160.00 for it and I bought my K31 at the same time from the same store and if I recall it was around $260.00. It was so long ago that I don't really remember the exact prices. I do know that I have also seen these same milsurps in guns stores and pawn shops being sold at around the three-hundred-plus range.

Many of the guns sold on gunbroker are marked excessively high to cover the percentage that gunbroker takes from each sale and to catch the gullible buyer who just wants a particular type of gun and isn't really price shopping.

In two instances I've contacted the seller using the information they provide in their description pages and bought the guns in questions directly from them at a lower price. One was a .17 Remington and the other was a Ruger BlackHawk. Their description pages usually state something to the effect that it's an in store item and as such, it may be sold in their store before it's sold on the gunbroker auction site.

HollowPoint

[Plate plinker]

I've learned my lesson with the cheap nagants, since I passed on them thinking I didn't need one. Stupid me I never thought of it as a investment opportunity. Next time a cheap surplus rifle pops up I am buying as many as I can realistically afford.

[C. Latch]

I've learned my lesson with the cheap nagants, since I passed on them thinking I didn't need one. Stupid me I never thought of it as a investment opportunity. Next time a cheap surplus rifle pops up I am buying as many as I can realistically afford.

I predict $400 AR15s this summer. I've already seen that price, not counting taxes, etc.

After 4 years of Trump (eight, max) the left will put a radical democrat in office (the pendulum always swings) and those same ARs will be worth $1000 again.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Many of the great surplus rifles have been imported and sold out, but I imagine that a few remain here and there in various parts of the world waiting to be discovered. About the last real flood of surplus will be the return of our own M1 Garands and Carbines from places like South Korea, if our current laws are changed and importation is permitted. Although well-worn, there will be diamonds amongst the gravel. If it happens, don't miss out on it. They were doubtless among the best military rifles to be made, and after them began the era of select fire rifles for which a tax stamp is needed. There are still original parts available in decreasing amounts with which to rebuild the M1s, and in some cases new after-market parts. If this last truly big import occurs there will no doubt be some parts imported as well, although they may be of foreign manufacture. Not necessarily inferior, but not as collectable.

[Scharfschuetze]

Many of the great surplus rifles have been imported and sold out, but I imagine that a few remain here and there in various parts of the world waiting to be discovered.

Right you are Gebirgsjaeger.

On various tours in Central and South America, I saw warehouses full of all kinds of Mausers, (mortars and anti-tank guns too) just racked up and rusting into the floor. There were some real beauties there, but most of 'em suffered from Third World lack of maintenance and were just rusting into the floors. A few of the countries still use Mausers for parades and ceremonial events.

While in Asia, I saw lots of Garands and M1 Carbines in Vietnam, Korea and Thailand. While the M1s in Korea are well known, Thailand still has warehouses full of them from back in the SEATO days. That fact seems to be unknown for some reason.

In Central Asia, there are still lots of Lee Enfields about and I saw them almost daily with the various para military organizations.

In the old French and British South Pacific protectorate of Vanuatu (previously the New Hebrides), I saw an arms room absolutely chock full of MAS 36 rifles in unissued condition. The racks of Martini single shot shotguns were well worn, but still very usable. When I asked why the French rifles were so pristine, the Mobile Force armorer told me that the French would not give them 7.5mm ammo for them. Their SLRs on the other hand were in use daily as the Australians supplied them with 7.62 NATO ammo. They now use the FAMAS French rifle in 5.56.

Perhaps some of these lost souls will find their way here while our country is under a more pragmatic administration.

[Boz330]

The K-31 is a fine rifle and the cost to make that today, especially as accurate as they are would be astronomical. I paid $159 for a Walnut stock example and the first handload I tried shot a 3/8" group at 100yd. You might find a new rifle that will do that but it ain't going to be $159 or $300 for that matter which is the last price I saw for them.

Bob

[Der Gebirgsjager]

As fate would have it, I acquired one of the MAS 36 rifles back in the middle '70s when they were far and few here in the U.S. It is in great condition, but has no two matching numbers on it, and as you know they number almost every part. But for $70 I thought I was getting a very unusual item. In the following decades they were imported in great numbers, many unissued, with all matching numbers. But, I don't regret the purchase, and I learned that it really is quite a fine rifle.

While the Mauser was successful in living on in civilian guise as various sporting rifles, and the Win. Mod. 70 owes some of its lineage to the M1903, most of the great old bolt action military rifles will never be produced again. Because of an increasing number of collectors, the excellent - pristine examples are becoming increasingly difficult to find and expensive.
I don't believe that there is a larger percentage of the population that are becoming collectors, but if collectors make up
only .01% of the population that number may remain at .01% but grows larger with a larger population.

Buying and restoring bubba-ized rifles is an alternative option to building a collection, but parts are becoming increasingly hard to find and expensive. Those who have rebuilt M1 Garands and have been shocked at the cost and scarcity of good replacement gas cylinder housings and operating rods will appreciate that getting these parts held in foreign warehouses and arms depots will be as much or more welcome that the rifles themselves.

It is true that some of us "old guys" lived during the golden age of surplus arms, and got ours while the getting was good.
You newcomers will have to wait and watch for our estate sales. :-)

[runfiverun]

so your saying I shouldn't have hack sawed and planed and re-shaped and cut and re-finished my K-31 before shaving the cheek piece down and putting a recoil pad and scope on it?

[Soundguy]

I just took a look on Gunbroker. I was looking for a clean M91/30, Swiss K31 or Yugo Mauser. Mostly, I'm just looking for a great shooter, not a looker. All have become super expensive within a month of me previously browsing.

Late K31: Roughly 800-1500 USD
Hex Mosin: 400 USD (Nuts)
M48: 400 USD (What)

The worst part is that I the pictures posted are horrific and I cannot even work the bolt or look down the bore. Looks like this is the end of the milsurp market for me. :(
I know that this phenomenon is simple market economics but it's a little disheartening I guess.

/end rant

shoe

Heck, even Turk mausers are going hot these days. those yoused to be the economy shooters. just find one with a good bore and you were usually golden.. now, they cost as much as a M48

[Der Gebirgsjager]

so your saying I shouldn't have hack sawed and planed and re-shaped and cut and re-finished my K-31 before shaving the cheek piece down and putting a recoil pad and scope on it?

I can tell that you have a streak of sadism and cruelty, trying to cause me pain with this gruesomely vivid description of desecration.
But actually, I don't care what you did with your rifle, as I have two very nice K-31s in my collection, plus a K-11. Just keep your implements of torture away from mine!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Actually, those Turk 8mms are great shooters, just kind of long for today's fashion in rifles. But although that might matter out in the woods or bucking the brush, it's no handicap at all on the range.

[gwpercle]

In 1967 me and two other high school buddies went down to the local Army Navy Store and bought the weird military rifles called 7.5 Schmidt-Rubin , K11....for the outrageous price of $19.95.
I went back later and because all the 7.5 ammo we could buy was Berdan primed and not reloadable, I bought a 30-06...an unissued 1903-A3 Springfield for $59.95, a lot of money for a kid in high school with no job let me tell you ! My daddy kicked in $40.00 but told me " don't tell your mother " Dad was great about helping me finance things like this...he was a great dad.
I still have both rifles !

[salpal48]

The prices @ the Gun shows on Military surplus have Gone sky High.. shooters and Collectors are Buying Them Up fast. . No one Really cares if You say You would not Buy them. . Guys at shows Can't keep them on The tables
The old saying says It all WouDa, Couda, Shouda

[Scharfschuetze]

so your saying I shouldn't have hack sawed and planed and re-shaped and cut and re-finished my K-31 before shaving the cheek piece down and putting a recoil pad and scope on it?

Well I hope that you at least put a compass in the stock or at least a Weatherby style diamond inlay!

[M-Tecs]

In 1967 me and two other high school buddies went down to the local Army Navy Store and bought the weird military rifles called 7.5 Schmidt-Rubin , K11....for the outrageous price of $19.95.
!

You got ripped. About that time my local Coast to Coast had four or five barrels of K-11's for $7.99 each.

[WILCO]

I know that this phenomenon is simple market economics but it's a little disheartening I guess.

It's a little more than that, but if you want to play, you have to pay.

[runfiverun]

actually I stippled the hand grip and finger grooves on the forearm with a pointed punch
[I didn't have a compass] and added sling swivels to it.
when I shaved the stock I done it so I could set my chin on the comb to see through the scope.
probably worse yet is I shoot moly coated bullets in it.


the only brass you could get for them back then was Norma.
100 pieces of brass cost more than the rifle.

[Speedo66]

Back then in the late 50's, the big Army-Navy store in lower Manhattan, Kaufman's, had barrels of Martini action BSA Cadet rifles in .310 for $11, and Modell's had dump tables filled with greasy cosmoline covered Carcano's for $12.

Ammo wasn't available, plus I was 12 and my parents weren't buying me another gun on top of my .22 target rifle.

[madsenshooter]

Translated from a Swiss newspaper.

Thousands of gun guns have been handed over to the Thurgau cantonal police in Amriswil TG today. Most of these were old army weapons.

The persons who followed the call for the release of weapons no longer needed also separated 15,000 rounds of ammunition, eleven kilograms of explosives, as well as explosive detonators and pyrotechnic materials, as reported by the Thurgau cantonal police.

Furthermore, dangerous objects such as sabers and knives were delivered. The police announced the launch of the weapons collection campaign as a success.

Other collecting days will take place on the next two Saturdays, first in Kreuzlingen and then in Frauenfeld between 9 am and 1 pm.

[CHeatermk3]

Those folks may regret having "released" their weapons if/when the Jihad comes a-nockin'!

[gwpercle]

Well I hope that you at least put a compass in the stock or at least a Weatherby style diamond inlay!
I mail ordered a nice Herter's Walnut Sporter stock , complete with roll over cheek piece , fancy white line spacers with 1960's style grip cap, fore end tip and recoil pad that Herters had in their catalog......that was one Bubba Special Sporter when I got through with it. I even ordered a stock bedding kit and proceeded to ruin the stock because I screwed up the bedding job. The epoxy hardened and I didn't have the action all the way in the stock ! Bedding compound got into the screw holes ....a nightmare of a mess up .
I put the action back in the military stock, and put the Herter's sporter away ... about 3 years ago I sat down and dremeled all that bedding compound out , now the action fits into the stock but there is way too much room in there. I hesitant to try bedding compound again....but one day I'm going to get it back in and finish that nice walnut. I may have to change the white line spacers to black !
Gary

[Dschuttig]

Late eighties, when the ATF opened "the window" and the ships offshore started unloading:
AK's.....................$190 (new, Chinese, folding or fixed stock)
SKS's.................$69 (very good)
Yugo Mausers.....$49 (very good)
Swede Mausers...$69 (very good)
91/30's and Finns..$39 (very good)
7.62 x 39 ammo....$59/1200 rd. crate

I was in a "warehouse" back then and it was a shooter/collector's dream come true. Thousands of surplus rifles, slathered in cosmo and stacked six feet high, like cordwood on pallets. My FFL buddy said I looked like a frantic bee trying to pollinate......kept flitting from rack to rack, trying to pick out the best for myself. It was maddening.

I purchased several of each at the prices listed back then. Like a fool, I passed up an entire CRATE of Japanese Arisakas....mixed type 99's, 38's, 44's for $200. There must have been twenty rifles in there.

I doubt we'll ever see days like that again. Remember, these guns were not "surplus", they were "war reserves" for most countries and that's why they were in such nice shape. I only bought two of the Swedes.......I should have bought ten.


2001-2 "ish" K-31's were 3 for $210 from century!!!!!

[Mgvande]

In Canada you can get k31's for 380-450 bucks. Still lots here. I stocked up on the gp11 as I can see that supply is going to dwindle.

[3006guns]

I mail ordered a nice Herter's Walnut Sporter stock , complete with roll over cheek piece , fancy white line spacers with 1960's style grip cap, fore end tip and recoil pad that Herters had in their catalog......that was one Bubba Special Sporter when I got through with it. I even ordered a stock bedding kit and proceeded to ruin the stock because I screwed up the bedding job. The epoxy hardened and I didn't have the action all the way in the stock ! Bedding compound got into the screw holes ....a nightmare of a mess up .
I put the action back in the military stock, and put the Herter's sporter away ... about 3 years ago I sat down and dremeled all that bedding compound out , now the action fits into the stock but there is way too much room in there. I hesitant to try bedding compound again....but one day I'm going to get it back in and finish that nice walnut. I may have to change the white line spacers to black !
Gary

Well, I did a little better when I inletted my first Herter's stock, but like yours the action stuck to the wood....or so I thought. Turned out that the fit was so close I just couldn't pull the thing apart! I stuck the whole gun in the freezer overnight which caused the metal to shrink away from the wood and she came undone. A little light sanding on the epoxy in various spots gave a nice fit and an accurate rifle (1898 Krag).

That stock was curly maple with a prefitted forend tip and butt plate. Eleven bucks plus shipping back in 1968......should have ordered twenty more, but a kid working for minimum wage in a gas station has other priorities.

By the way, I forgot to mention in my earlier post.....the same warehouse where all those rifles were selling at rock bottom prices had Smith and Wesson Brazilian contract revolvers and Broomhandle Mausers ('96 or Bolos) for $60 each. I bought two of the S&W's and two of the broomhandles. At least I got smart for a little bit anyway.

When I think back to the late fifties to the late eighties, I really wish for a time machine and around $10,000 in cash. OH, would I have fun!

[marlin39a]

Fifteen years ago J&G was selling Turkish Mausers for $29.00. Now look at what they go for.

[richhodg66]

Milsurps are fun. I've suddenly got the itch to own an Arisaka lately. Looking at all my junk, I found I have a set of dies and some brass, not sure where they came from. Guess I'll be on the hunt for one now.

[Peregrine]

In Canada you can get k31's for 380-450 bucks. Still lots here. I stocked up on the gp11 as I can see that supply is going to dwindle.

Not anymore you can't trying $600-$800 and rising fast. Some are asking $1000 plus for particularly nice examples and getting it. k11s right behind.

[Mgvande]

Wow when did that happen. I should of bought 10 of the things

[rmark]

Turkish Mauser $39.95 in about 1979, special with only one ring in the barrel :)

[Texas by God]

I see K31s for $300 or so. They are worth every penny. I would not give $300 for any Mosin Nagant. It will be a happy day if the M1 rifles & carbines come home and there's a fair chance that could happen maybe. I join my regretful brothers for dispersing all those bargains I got in the 80's......

[Peregrine]

Wow when did that happen. I should of bought 10 of the things

Within the last year. And yeah, you're telling me. Kicking myself for not picking up every single one I saw at my local Canadian Tire for $329 two summers ago. At least I got one.
The market is insatiable right now, anytime one is posted on CGN for <$1k it's gone in minutes.

Interest in milsurps is raging thanks to the internet opening many people's eyes to them, and the demand is self driving since people have gotten a whiff of the fact they're only becoming more scarce.

Swede and Yugo mausers are still relatively valued as of me writing this, take that wishful thinking regarding buying 10 k31s and secure a few nicer examples.