44 Magnum Full Wadcutter Loads

[ShooterAZ]

I did some searching on this site and a few others, there's really not a lot of load info out there for these. Even the Lyman 4th doesn't show any wadcutter loads. I bought this mold http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-190W-D.png, and it casts right at about 195 grains lubed with my alloy. So far, I have tried 5.5 gr of Bullseye, and 6 grains of Red Dot with good results. I'm wondering if any of you guys have any experience with 44 wadcutters, and what loads you prefer for yours. I have a plethora of other powders including Unique, 231, Titegroup and others. If you have suggestions, thanks for sharing!

[Wally]

I shoot the Lyman 429438 (185 grain) & a Lee 208 grain WC. Both are very accurate. I use 6~7 grains of Bullseye/W-231/HP-38/Promo/Red Dot/Titegroup. I have never found one powder that was any more accurate than the others. Be sure to check carefully for double charged cases......I charge the cases, place them on a loading block & examine with a flashlight. I also load in a .44 Special case using 5.0 ~ 5.5 grains of powder. 5.0 grains of TITEWAD (Not TITEGROUP) has worked beautifully for me in the .44 Special caliber.

One can do a little trick when "showing off" ones shooting proficiency with others. These loads are mild compared to full factory loads and accurate. Imagine shooting them at tin cans showing others just how good a shot that you are. Then you let them try with factory level loads. Most don't relaize the difference..afterall both rounds are .44 Magnums, aren't they?

[tdoyka]

i used to use a 220gr wc in my ruger srh(44 mag). the only powder i've used was trail boss, although unique should work as well.

[44man]

WHY? What do you want to achieve. Turn a magnum hunting gun to a pop gun.

[ShooterAZ]

44 man, Why? So my wife and grandkids can enjoy shooting it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shoot-n-lead]

WHY? What do you want to achieve. Turn a magnum hunting gun to a pop gun.

44man...with all due respect...if you are suggesting that a full wadcutter in 44mag is a pop gun...well, you don't know as much as I thought you did.

Just in case you don't know...a full wadcutter launched from a 44mag handgun will most certainly kill a deer at 50yds...put a hole all the way through. That ain't talk...that is a FACT. Matter of fact, they work so well, that the 200gr full wadcutter is the only cast bullet I shoot in my .44 levers, now...bang/flop at 75yds. My experience has shown them to be effective...very effective. This idea that the only thing that will work in .44 guns, is the heaviest bullets, is poppy cock.

Now, if I am hunting truly big game, like elk or moose, I want those heavy bullets...but they certainly are not necessary for most deer...at least, most of the ones that I have seen.

It is fine to prefer big, heavy bullets...but they are not the only thing that will work for a lot of folks.

And, they certainly generate less recoil for those shooters that are not into a lot of punishment.

[jmort]

That .44 mag wadcutter will smoke most anything. A .38 Special 148 grain wadcutter at around 700 fps will shoot through 18" of ballistic gelatin. A 195 grain .44 mag wadcutter at modest velocity will have a serious terminal effect. I have a 170 grain .359" wadcutter that I use in .357 mag snub-nose revolvers at around 800 fps that will shoot through and through any deer broadside and any Goblin. The magic meplat.

[Forrest r]

I monkey around with 162gr/175gr/200gr/240gr wc's in the 44mag pop guns. Not a lot of data out there. It's the depth of the bullet in the case that counts. So no data ='s no problem.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/100_3306_zpsv0cbwmfn.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/100_3306_zpsv0cbwmfn.jpg.html)

Top row left to right, the bullets laying down.
162gr button nosed wc
175gr de wc
200gr wc
240gr wc

Middle row is comparing the crimp grooves/bullet base in case to a h&g #142 220gr swc. The #142 id the h& g version of the lyman 429215. As you can see the 3 different wc's all have the same seating depth of the bullets base/body in the case. I can use the lyman 429215 data for any of those 3 wc bullets.

The bottom row is a Mihec #503 lone (lyman 245gr 429421). As you can see turned up that 240gr wc has the same seating depth os the 245gr swc. I can use the same data for that 240gr wc as I use for the 245gr swc bullet. Turned the other way the base of the wc is a lot longer/deeper seating depth than the 245gr swc. When I seat these bullets flush I used the starting load data for the 429421 bullet in 44spl cases.

It's all about the amount of bullet that goes into the case.

Just because a wc bullet has a crimp groove doesn't mean you have to use it. That 240gr wc is also a 220gr hbwc with the hb pin installed. Testing loads with a 220gr hbwc, the bullets were seated flush, crimped in the 1st groove, crimped in the 2nd groove. And monkeying around turning the hbwc around to make a huge hp.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/44hbwc624.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/44hbwc624.jpg.html)

More monkeying around with popgun loads. This time h&g #50 148gr wc's crimped in the middle lube groove in 38spl cases to be used in a 357. The 640 rfn hp's were crimped in the bottom lube groove.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/8e26ef61-5d72-4232-9996-108bde84fb55_zpsymwzcftj.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/8e26ef61-5d72-4232-9996-108bde84fb55_zpsymwzcftj.jpg.html)

Not sure compare your wc to know bullets and use that data.

[jmort]

Nice. Like that kind of "monkeying around."

[ShooterAZ]

Yes, that is the kind of monkeying around I like to see. It's good to see others doings. Thanks Forrest r.

[murf205]

Ya' gotta love those purple boolits!

[murf205]

Ya' gotta love those purple boolits! Did you get the powder from Smoke? Excuse the double post

[Maven]

ShooterAZ, Years ago I won a B & M .44cal. [single cav.] WC mold with integral handles on one of the auction sites and was I ever pleased! The thing needed minor cleaning, but it casts beautiful ~169gr. full WC's @ .432", which I then resize .431" to suit my Ruger SBH. Moreover, it rarely drops a bad WC, even when the mold is cold. Those WC's are damned accurate with Clays or light charges of Unique, but have enough energy to dispatch a deer if necessary.

[ShooterAZ]

I agree, I really enjoy shooting mine. I bought the mold to use in my Ruger SBH. I also shot some of them out of my 14" Contender, scary accurate and fun to shoot.

[John Allen]

Forrest, has it right on the money. I have the 240gr full wadcutter. I do the same thing. If the depth is the same and the bullet weight is the same I am golden and good to go.

[Forrest r]

Ya' gotta love those purple boolits! Did you get the powder from Smoke? Excuse the double post

Bought that color from smoke for the misses.

[35remington]

I will admit I am a wadcutter guy myself and follow such threads with interest.

I know that's not 44man's cup of tea but some things relate differently depending upon how our own interests lie.

Been fiddling around with flat faced and shallow cup point wadcutters and even at mild speed they are formidable. Moderate loads are better with a wadcutter bullet, I think.

[44man]

The reason is to center at the forcing cone and clock the cylinder. A wad cutter and Keith needs perfect chamber to bore alignment. But you increase drive length and need more velocity for stability.
But to get the wife and kids to shoot, OK. I will not argue.
Years ago I had the Ruger flat top with light loads. Carol shot it good so I put full loads of 2400 in a few chambers and she shot. I asked her and she said some were louder.

[rintinglen]

A favorite 44 Special load of mine is the NOE 230 grain wadcutter--looks like an obese 358-495-- over 4.5 grains of Red Dot or 5.2 grains of Unique. Mild, accurate, fun to shoot--what more can you want for shooting paper. Were I wanting to upload it for serious social purposes, I'd boost those charges about a half grain.
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_432_230Gr._WC.Jpg192121

[Hardcast416taylor]

Still using a 2 cavity LEE .44 mold WC at about 208 gr. and a Saeco .44 cal. 200 gr. WC. I`ve only used 3 powders for them, HP-38/Win. 231 and Red Dot, all 3 powders in the 6 - 6.5 gr. range using a 50/50 alloy of both in my Blackhawks and model 29 Smith. I refer to the boolets as my flying `trashcans`.Robert

[44man]

Most don't shoot like I do. I start at 100 yards with revolvers. I do work loads at 50 but it ends there and can go to 500 meters. But when we go down I always put something at 100 for my revolvers. Can be an empty paint can, water bottle or beer can.
The full wad cutter has a long drive length over what the rifling can turn up. It is a muzzle against the paper thing. The range is feet, not yards. It needs more spin and velocity then my boolits.

[44man]

That .44 mag wadcutter will smoke most anything. A .38 Special 148 grain wadcutter at around 700 fps will shoot through 18" of ballistic gelatin. A 195 grain .44 mag wadcutter at modest velocity will have a serious terminal effect. I have a 170 grain .359" wadcutter that I use in .357 mag snub-nose revolvers at around 800 fps that will shoot through and through any deer broadside and any Goblin. The magic meplat.
Maybe, if you can hit the deer at 50. That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get. Don't tell me you get accuracy to 50 and more with a touch of fast powder. I know the .44.
I make mine shoot 1-5/16" at 200 yards.192122 I did better at IHMSA with hits averaging 5/8" at 200 meters. Hornady bullets.
I learned boolits for all guns and the Semi wad cutter and wad cutter are so sad.
Yeah, they shoot great when you can reach out and touch the target.

[shoot-n-lead]

Maybe, if you can hit the deer at 50. That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get. Don't tell me you get accuracy to 50 and more with a touch of fast powder. I know the .44.
I make mine shoot 1-5/16" at 200 yards.192122 I did better at IHMSA with hits averaging 5/8" at 200 meters. Hornady bullets.
I learned boolits for all guns and the Semi wad cutter and wad cutter are so sad.
Yeah, they shoot great when you can reach out and touch the target.

Are you seriously suggesting that a full wadcutter is not accurate enough to make a lethal shot on a deer at 50yds?

[44man]

Are you seriously suggesting that a full wadcutter is not accurate enough to make a lethal shot on a deer at 50yds?
Not at all, it depends on accuracy. You MUST hit first. Lethal and hit are different things.
Can a wad cutter be accurate? I suppose so but not the way they are commonly shot.
I will defy the mods by asking for groups shot. Darn, gets me in trouble, sorry.

[shoot-n-lead]

Not at all, it depends on accuracy. You MUST hit first. Lethal and hit are different things.
Can a wad cutter be accurate? I suppose so but not the way they are commonly shot.
I will defy the mods by asking for groups shot. Darn, gets me in trouble, sorry.

Don't currently have a pic of groups shot...but I will try to get a couple.

But, they shoot well enough when placed in front of some Unique...that they certainly get the job done. I am sure they won't shoot like your bullets...but, I don't seem to have a problem killing game, with them.

Also, your original comment in this thread was about making the .44 mag a pop gun...by using a full wadcutter...NOTHING could be farther from the truth. And, that comment tells me that you have never shot any flesh and bones with wadcutter...otherwise, you would have not made the comment as you would know better. And, accuracy has little to do the the "pop gun" comment.

Again, with all due respect, I am sure that you can tell me a lot about .44 long range accuracy...what will work and what will not. I am sure that you can tell me what bullet works best for longer range handgun hunting. But, you can't tell me about how wadcutters perform on deer at typical handgun ranges...I have been there, done that and got the hat.

[ShooterAZ]

I don't commonly take pics of group shots either, but my Contender will put 10 out of 10 of those pop gun 44 wadcutters into the same hole at 50 yards. I never shot them at 100 but don't expect much of a difference except trajectory. Yeah I know, 44man can do that at 200 with his weak hand and blindfolded.:kidding:

[Forrest r]

I don't commonly take pics of group shots either, but my Contender will put 10 out of 10 of those pop gun 44 wadcutters into the same hole at 50 yards. I never shot them at 100 but don't expect much of a difference except trajectory. Yeah I know, 44man can do that at 200 with his weak hand and blindfolded.:kidding:

Na, that's his wife that shoots at 200 weak hand and blindfolded. He shoot at 500m using the weak hand blindfolded Annie Oakly style with mirrors.

I have no idea why 44man keep parroting things like this " That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get".

Nothing could be further from the truth.

My wc's:
162gr wc ='s .580" long
175gr wc ='s .590" long
200gr wc ='s .675" long
220gr hbwc/240gr wc ='s .750" long

44man's me got pen 310gr lee bullet ='s .950" long

44man keeps talking about having to spin them faster when in reality it's the bullets he uses that are longer and need to spin faster.

[44man]

I go by drive length instead of boolit length. My 330 gr has a drive of .445". The Lee 310 is .500". I don't think any part of a boolit that does not touch rifling is important.
My 330 is .930" long and the Lee is .865". You can have a very long nose and weight that does not change twist needed. Weight comes in for loads since a heavy can't be shot faster then a lighter boolit. The Lee likes 21.5 gr of 296, fed 150 primer while mine needs 21 gr. It will not be the weight of the wad cutter but the length at the bore. So you have more drive length that depends on weight for the load. I figure the 330 gr at the max for the .44 with a 1 in 20" rate. So if your wad cutter has from .500" or less it will shoot.
As far as results on deer, the pressure wave from the full flat nose can kick your butt.
Then a wad cutter is seated deeper so the load needs reduced.
You will have a hard time convincing me a pinch of Unique is accurate.

[ShooterAZ]

Well, we all stand corrected. If we don't do things EXACTLY as 44man does, it won't be accurate and we won't be able to hit anything with it let alone kill a deer. I also just learned from him that Unique is not suitable for accurate loads in the 44. Learn something new every day, and because I learned it right here on the internet, it has to be true.

[44man]

Na, that's his wife that shoots at 200 weak hand and blindfolded. He shoot at 500m using the weak hand blindfolded Annie Oakly style with mirrors.

I have no idea why 44man keep parroting things like this " That long bearing surface needs a higher velocity then you can get".

Nothing could be further from the truth.

My wc's:
162gr wc ='s .580" long
175gr wc ='s .590" long
200gr wc ='s .675" long
220gr hbwc/240gr wc ='s .750" long

44man's me got pen 310gr lee bullet ='s .950" long

44man keeps talking about having to spin them faster when in reality it's the bullets he uses that are longer and need to spin faster.
You are wrong with the Lee. The Lee 310 is .865" with a .500" drive. But all of your wad cutters are longer for drive length then the twist can support.
Strange nobody has groups to show. I have another with a boolit I designed. 50 yards working loads.192165 Then 100 yards, same boolit. 192166Can you hit a shotgun shell at 100 with the wad cutter? 192171Three shots off hand at 100 with my boolit, .44 mag, 3/4".192173More, cans shot at 100 and 200 yards.

[44man]

Depends on the boolit. Unique and 231 are accurate but don't expect to shoot a heavy boolit.192182 My boolit at 50 yards with Unique at around 1100 fps. This boolit MUST be in the 1300 fps range or is buckshot.
What you miss with a wad cutter is what happens at the cone. No guidance into the bore or cylinder clocking. Primary reason they don't shoot far. You wipe the edge off. Crooked start.
My boolit has a close to 11° ogive to match the cone as close as I could get it. It steers itself. What steers a semi wad cutter or wad cutter?
A wad cutter is great to cut paper or for pins. But pins fall better with a slow boolit. A high velocity boolit from a .44 will punch through without the pin falling. Best is the ACP.
There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun. It can't guide into rifling.
Why so hard to find a mold? maybe it doesn't work.

[jmort]

"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun"

?????????????????????????????????????????????
There is one man's opinion. I do not agree.

[Thumbcocker]

A couple of points

1. I have no doubt that .44 Man has done what he said he has done with a revolver. Using stuff I learned from him and others I have shot a .44 mag revolver at 200 and 300 yards and did well enough to believe in his theory and practice. I did NOT get his results.


2. A person with one big bore revolver might want a variety of loads for that gun to cover various situations. I like shooting full bore .44 mag loads but there is the cumulative effect of recoil and for some folks the cost of lead and powder. Lots more shots with fast powder and a lighter boolit. Having different loads makes one gun more enjoyable and versatile. I had three load ranges for my .44 mags before I could afford .44 specials and more guns.


3. Ultimately it is your gun and you can shoot whatever you darn well please in it. As long as it is a safe load and you are having fun I am in your corner pulling for you.

[44man]

"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun"

?????????????????????????????????????????????
There is one man's opinion. I do not agree.
I am opinionated for sure. Working the .44 since 1956 has made me that way. A glorious caliber that I can't make work what doesn't.
I ordered my flat top from Kliens Sporting Goods in Chi from Cle. $96 and the 29's were $140. I had dies, a mold and factory ammo for brass long before the gun came in the mail. Yep, in the mail. If you think you load hot, shoot some original factory stuff.
I was an Elmer fan and was shooting the .44 to over 500 yards back then. I didn't really learn the revolver until IHMSA. Then I made the guns shoot.
I would really like to see 50 and 100 yard groups with a wad cutter.

[ShooterAZ]

"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun. It can't guide into rifling."

I suppose this is why many, if not most, bullseye revolver shooters use 38 wadcutters? The above statement is totally asinine. 44man, you have helped me in the past with my 44 Blackhawk, and I want you to know that I really do appreciate that. I have the 310 Lee, and have used "your load" with excellent results. However, I'll continue to cast, shoot and enjoy my popgun 44 wadcutter loads, especially when I have the wife and grandkids in tow. I think that they might enjoy it more than I do.

[44man]

Of course I want you to have success. Who am I to tell you? I have one goal, to promote cast and for you to have fun. I give what I found but you might do something else that works so I want to know.
The revolver was designed by an evil entity. It will screw with your mind. But it DOES work.
Light loads--OK, just not the wrong boolits. I love a 240, 245 or 250 with 7 gr of Unique or 231. Can shooting at it's best. Just need to match stuff up.

[Leadmelter]

In the winter months, our club goes indoors and does not allow magnum ammo. I use the Lyman 180, NOE 220, and a Rapine 240 depending on the flavor of the month.
Use less lead, powder and wear and tear on this body.
Leadmelter
MI

[44man]

"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun. It can't guide into rifling."

I suppose this is why many, if not most, bullseye revolver shooters use 38 wadcutters? The above statement is totally asinine. 44man, you have helped me in the past with my 44 Blackhawk, and I want you to know that I really do appreciate that. I have the 310 Lee, and have used "your load" with excellent results. However, I'll continue to cast, shoot and enjoy my popgun 44 wadcutter loads, especially when I have the wife and grandkids in tow. I think that they might enjoy it more than I do.
The .38 and .357 are a different ilk. I had many but none were as good as the S&W 27. Not even the K38. I shot the 358156 HP from the 27 and could hit 1" targets at 100 yards all day. 2400 powder.
My experience with wad cutters was the Cle police. I cleaned their guns. Hated it, lead inside and out, cylinder outsides and frames packed with lead.
Bullseye shooters are close range anyway. Just want a round hole to measure.
Now a Keith or Thompson can shoot if the cylinder has perfect alignment. With my larger calibers I was sent Keith style boolits and they are rocks thrown by hand.

[Forrest r]

The .38 and .357 are a different ilk. I had many but none were as good as the S&W 27. Not even the K38. I shot the 358156 HP from the 27 and could hit 1" targets at 100 yards all day. 2400 powder.
My experience with wad cutters was the Cle police. I cleaned their guns. Hated it, lead inside and out, cylinder outsides and frames packed with lead.
Bullseye shooters are close range anyway. Just want a round hole to measure.
Now a Keith or Thompson can shoot if the cylinder has perfect alignment. With my larger calibers I was sent Keith style boolits and they are rocks thrown by hand.

Typically when I see statements like that it tells me someones keyboard is a pretty good shot.

[Forrest r]

You are wrong with the Lee. The Lee 310 is .865" with a .500" drive. But all of your wad cutters are longer for drive length then the twist can support. Actually your wrong
Strange nobody has groups to show. I have another with a boolit I designed. 50 yards working loads.192165 Then 100 yards, same boolit. 192166Can you hit a shotgun shell at 100 with the wad cutter? 192171Three shots off hand at 100 with my boolit, .44 mag, 3/4".192173More, cans shot at 100 and 200 yards.
I just love when someone puts 2 & 3 shot groups out there. I got an idear, why not put 10 or 20 shots together. That's called something that can be scored. That's very impressive pile of range trash you got there, why no 1" blocks all day long? The 44 not up to the task?? Perhaps if you practiced more with wadcutters you'd become a better shot. I'm extremely impressed with your lack of knowledge about a bullet you are supposed to shoot/use all the time. Tends to make everything else you type suspect. The lee 310gr bullet you keep referring to is a straight bodied bullet. Glad to see you keep parroting about drive bands on a straight sided bullet. That's right up there with a bullets nose length mean nothing. The reality of that 310gr lee bullet is it's .845" long, has a gc base that goes up ends. There's a small portion of the side of the bullet. Then there's a grease groove, then another small portion of the side of the bullet. (Most people that don't know what their looking at call them things drive bands) Then there's the lower crimp groove,another small portion of the side of the bullet & then a top crimp groove.Then above the top crimp groove is another portion of the side of the bullet. Anyone that knows what they're looking at can easily see the lee 310gr bullet doesn't have "drive bands".
http://leeprecision.com/mold-dc-c-430-310-rf.html

I size my lee 310gr bullet to.430. Those so called drive bands and the side of the bullet above the crimp grooves has a .625" long area of the body that is .430" in diameter/contact with the bore.

Odd 44man keeps claiming the 310gr lee bullet is gooder because of the bullet/bore contact being so short. But yet 3 of my wc's actually have less bore contact then the lee 310.

[Forrest r]

That there's the watered down version.

If you want to really get down to the brass tacks of it. You need to look and measure what's called the bullets "bearing surface".

[44man]

Yes they are drive bands and anything that engraves rifling is such, Sure I love the lee 310 but I shoot it where it needs to be shot, over 1300 fps. You still don't see the point of the edge of the wad cutter at the cone. The Lee has an ogive to steer. However the lee does shoot good but can't match my boolit with a shorter drive area.
I never need 20 shots to prove a load. It can be done with 3 shots and over time and thousands of shots that hit, why would I shoot 20 shot groups.192321On occasion I have shot 10 at 50 yards but why? It only shows my shakes. 192322 A few years ago I shot these bottles at 100 off hand. If you see the holes I was around a 1" group. Maybe much less. Could be less then 1/2". Do I need 20? I can't do it anymore, too stinking old.
I need a rest now but you still won't show anything. I don't care if you use a Ransom. If a wad cutter shoots better I will apologize.
You hesitate but I never did. Once someone said a .45 did not shoot good. I grabbed 5 loads and went right down to shoot, Creedmore at 50 yards. Vaquero. 192329I am ashamed with that group, should have been one hole. Darn, needed a wad cutter.
Nobody has ever made the revolver shoot like me. You can jump up and down, blow smoke, whatever. Accuse me of lying, don't matter. When you can tell how to make a .44 shoot, maybe someone will take you seriously.
I have with everything I learned that I gave freely to my friends here. The glove is tossed.
I do not gloat, I help every single person here. You can't bluff your way to King of the hill. Not allowed here. All are important.
You can bash but I will never complain because if we ever met, we could be friends.

[ShooterAZ]

Wow, just wow.

[jmort]

In the words of Ed Lover,
C'mon Son
The greatest revolver shootist in the history of the earth???

[Forrest r]

Yes they are drive bands and anything that engraves rifling is such, Sure I love the lee 310 but I shoot it where it needs to be shot, over 1300 fps. You still don't see the point of the edge of the wad cutter at the cone. The Lee has an ogive to steer. However the lee does shoot good but can't match my boolit with a shorter drive area.
I never need 20 shots to prove a load. It can be done with 3 shots and over time and thousands of shots that hit, why would I shoot 20 shot groups.192321On occasion I have shot 10 at 50 yards but why? It only shows my shakes. 192322 A few years ago I shot these bottles at 100 off hand. If you see the holes I was around a 1" group. Maybe much less. Could be less then 1/2". Do I need 20? I can't do it anymore, too stinking old.
I need a rest now but you still won't show anything. I don't care if you use a Ransom. If a wad cutter shoots better I will apologize.
You hesitate but I never did. Once someone said a .45 did not shoot good. I grabbed 5 loads and went right down to shoot, Creedmore at 50 yards. Vaquero. 192329I am ashamed with that group, should have been one hole. Darn, needed a wad cutter.
Nobody has ever made the revolver shoot like me. You can jump up and down, blow smoke, whatever. Accuse me of lying, don't matter. When you can tell how to make a .44 shoot, maybe someone will take you seriously.
I have with everything I learned that I gave freely to my friends here. The glove is tossed.
I do not gloat, I help every single person here. You can't bluff your way to King of the hill. Not allowed here. All are important.
You can bash but I will never complain because if we ever met, we could be friends.

You got the most accurate keyboard I've seen in years. Too bad you don't shoot wc's or the range trash you shoot would of been smaller.

[44man]

You got the most accurate keyboard I've seen in years. Too bad you don't shoot wc's or the range trash you shoot would of been smaller.
Don't worry I get that a lot. Doesn't bother me a bit. I seen it all day at IHMSA shoots. All .44 shooters were stuck on the 4227's and mag primers, never seen a single one that took any advice. All I seen was anger and cussing on the line.
There are many that think like you do and it is unfortunate. I have spent many hours here telling how to get a revolver accurate but many know better, can't be done and I lie about distance.
There are guys here that do great things but all you do is promote distrust so now I can't believe anything. If you posted a group I will sure say you shot 10 yards. I think your keyboard has a trigger, mine sure doesn't. See what you are doing?
I want everyone to shoot the best a gun can do and I have nothing to gain but pride to help. I seen too much with 79 years with shooters that did not accept help, stubborn because they "READ" it so it must be right.
I will not cuss you or get angry, you just don't know. How about researching what I said to do? Come here and shoot what I do, money on the table you will out shoot me. But leave your loads home, I can tell you what primer you used.
I have been booted from more sites the you know exist by telling the truth. I was booted from the SA site quick by going against Taffin. The owner of the site came here to shoot and seen what a revolver can do, he wanted me back, said no, can't go against the King of the hill.
I have been in trouble here too but Mods understand. The worst thing to do is challenge. I have a hard time stopping it since the goal is to see if you have something useful that I could use. I will never stop learning, stupid to be in a groove.
Bottom line, can we agree to disagree and still be friends? I will disagree with things done but never personal.

[Drm50]

I have 0 experience with WCs out of 44mg. Shot some out of 44sp. that I bought. In fact I have
been looking for 44WC mold for some time. I do however have lots of shooten with 45 & 38 WCs.
I have a few m25 S&Ws, shooting 242gr WC/ 800fps with Unique. I have a m24 that I got NIB
a while back and want to feed it WCs target loads. I have several m29s that I only shoot mild
loads/ 240g HP cast with 2400 powder. My old 3 screw SBH I shoot 240jhp / 22.5g of 2400 for
deer hunting. I wouldn't shoot it that hot, but that's it's sweet spot. I have given up on finding
44WC mold used, going to break down and order a new one. 99% of shooting is target or plinking
no sense in blowing magnum loads at paper, or beating up S&Ws with Max loads. I have shot 1
deer with m25 S&W, 45Colt with the WC load. Shot was 35yds, it wasn't a bang flop, but it piled
up less than 50yds, dead. WC drops their oil pressure fast.192503

[44man]

TRUST? What does it entail? I explain and show what I did and might never duplicate it again but I am honest about it. I got OLD.
Some here will get my support all day long, but many doubt. I blame it on some are too young to have experimented more then a day or two. They load and drive 100 miles to shoot a few. Never shot more then 12 yards. Revolver syndrome of a close range pocket gun.
I talk accuracy with killing power to as far as a revolver should be shot to. Not far after all.192740 My last two rounds on a 200 meter cardboard chicken. Would I shoot at a deer that far? NO, energy is gone. By the way that was with opens from Creedmore.
Detractors flow like melted butter. Can you buy shirts to fit your chest? I will go bad again, show us. Not personal, Just prove loads.

[Forrest r]

TRUST? What does it entail? I explain and show what I did and might never duplicate it again but I am honest about it. I got OLD.
Some here will get my support all day long, but many doubt. I blame it on some are too young to have experimented more then a day or two. They load and drive 100 miles to shoot a few. Never shot more then 12 yards. Revolver syndrome of a close range pocket gun.
I talk accuracy with killing power to as far as a revolver should be shot to. Not far after all.192740 My last two rounds on a 200 meter cardboard chicken. Would I shoot at a deer that far? NO, energy is gone. By the way that was with opens from Creedmore.
Detractors flow like melted butter. Can you buy shirts to fit your chest? I will go bad again, show us. Not personal, Just prove loads.

As usual It's all about you!!!!

A guy asks about a 44 wc load with 6gr of target powder and you keep spouting this junk.

Good for you

I am soooooo glad you can do 2 1/2" groups @ 500yds.

What the heck does any of this have to do with a 44cal wc load??? Could you tell us again about your 100yd all day long 1" combo. Or post more pictures of range junk??? PPPLLLLEEEAAASSSEEEE you the bestest shoottterrrr eeeevvvveeerrrrr

[44man]

You just don't get it. It is always steerage into the bore. What difference what boolit weight and load? It is the ogive that counts. Even a slight curve away from the sharp shoulder is an aid.
Even working a SWC with alloys has shown it. I started with soft and kept going harder and harder until things clicked at 28 BHN and got better at 30 BHN. Harder shoulders that did not wipe.192780 25 and 50 yards with hard. Patch with no leading. They still do not shoot as good as a RNFP but groups at 50 were better then 25 with softer.
Not about me but you refuse to learn a thing.
Come back with WC groups.
I have passed along all I learned about revolvers since 1956 and even before with a .357. SOOOO, you are now in the drivers SEAAAAT. I bet I was working on them before you were born. I love the LOOOOONG stuff.
Can you add to knowledge and help or do you just like to bash people?
PLEEEEEZE show me how to shoot a WC or pure lead from a .44. Can you do it tomorrow or in 20 years? I will not wait for it since you will never do it. After I am gone you will still struggle.

[Forrest r]

No problem, after all this thread is about 44cal wc's. This is what I use for nra bullseye.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/200gwcs_zps072309fe.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/200gwcs_zps072309fe.jpg.html)

Nothing more than scrap range lead. I typically shoot 500 to 700 rounds before I have to clean the revolver. And yes it also only takes 1 patch to clean the bbl.

Actually I was playing around and came up with 13 different loads that would hold the x-ring.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/629accuracytargets_zps87d7149e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/629accuracytargets_zps87d7149e.jpg.html)

The only thing around here that's struggling is you and your ability to shoot anything but a round bullet. They've been using wc designs since 1900 in the 44cal's. And people that know how to reload will still be using them long after your gone.

Anyway back to reality.

[44man]

Well those are fine groups but I hunt and shoot to 120 yards and 25 tells me little. I work loads at 50 and want 1" or less, never shot 25 with any of my revolvers.
Stretch your legs a little. I go down to shoot and put little bottles of water at 100.
You also miss another point, I would never hunt with that load. I shoot nothing but hunting loads all year. 300 to 330 gr at 1300 to 1316 fps. Penetration and energy placed. I would never use a 200 gr for deer. I am adverse to a 240 too. I can show a 330 gr with a hard boolit affect.192797Shot this deer in the neck at 65 yards, lost some burger.
I have a reason for accuracy and range with power. 192798.475 neck shot forget the distance. 192799Exit hole with the .475, I hit under the chin, took the neck and some short ribs, boolit went under the back straps and out the ham. I lost no meat. Buck was 65 yards.
I made the molds for all of my revolvers. 192800This is my .500 JRH boolit, copy of my .475, the 440 gr that hit the shotgun shell at 100 yards. It runs at 1350 fps. The 420 from the .475 runs at 1329 fps.
We differ in that I hunt and want the best, I HATE paper.

[jmort]

"I HATE paper."

But you love shooting spent shotgun shells and cans. ;)

[44man]

Do you see my case tension and mild crimp? The .500 JRH was poking holes with deer going 100 to 120 yards till dead with no blood trails. I blame a too heavy boolit that does not slow. No "DWELL" time and energy transfer. I cast a little softer nose, just half with a mix of 3# of pure with 1# of WW. I will not give up the hard drive of the boolit. Nasty things.192805
Would you really hunt deer with a 200 gr WC that slow at any range? I expect not and you will lose animals.
We will always be different because you shoot close paper and I hunt long ranges.

[44man]

"I HATE paper."

But you love shooting spent shotgun shells and cans. ;)
True, a 3D target is better. I use an Ultra Dot on revolvers and it is easier with a can or a rock then a spot on paper. It is visual perception.
I was done sighting the custom Swede I made and set a can at 100, shot and it did not move so I shot again, both off hand. What I found.192807
30-30 with my cast at 100 yards, I made the mold. 192808Better on the can. 3 shots. You will shoot rocks better then a paper spot.

[725]

Well, I enjoy the info from both camps. Hope none of the acrimony is serious. End users seem to have different purposes and thus have different paths to get there. Lots of ways to skin a cat. I've learned some from these various entries.

[Ramjet-SS]

True, a 3D target is better. I use an Ultra Dot on revolvers and it is easier with a can or a rock then a spot on paper. It is visual perception.
I was done sighting the custom Swede I made and set a can at 100, shot and it did not move so I shot again, both off hand. What I found.192807
30-30 with my cast at 100 yards, I made the mold. 192808Better on the can. 3 shots. You will shoot rocks better then a paper spot.

I agree with the 3D target assertion very true I hit cans and rocks way better than paper. I only use paper to sight in then it's 3-D fun. Clay pigeons on the berm is a lot of fun offhand.

[44man]

I agree with the 3D target assertion very true I hit cans and rocks way better than paper. I only use paper to sight in then it's 3-D fun. Clay pigeons on the berm is a lot of fun offhand.
Exactly. I never seen a deer with a painted on bulls eye. I would sure miss it anyway.
I am funny when hunting, bow or gun. I never pull the trigger. It just goes off when the sights are on with no memory of pulling. I feel no recoil or hear the gun. The shot is gone on auto. I have very light triggers, down to ounces and on the range they never want to go off, like my finger froze. But in the field the gun goes with no thought or effort. It is so different I am at a loss to say why. Maybe I am a natural born hunter and feel I was an Indian in a previous life. Maybe why I feel love for our American Indians.
I had an Indian friend at work and walking out one day he said I walk awful straight for a white man. Yes my tracks in the snow are straight without the splay foot of most.
Even in the house I make no noise except weight on the floor. Others bang feet. I hear Carol walking with the "THUMP, THUMP". I am a ghost through the house. Same in the woods. Not much to do with the topic but maybe why I kill so many deer. I made deer come to me and have had a herd feeding all around me many times. Within feet. I could actually reach out and touch them.
Even rabbit hunting. Heard a bunch running beagles above me. Grabbed my gun and asked to join in. I shot every rabbit the dog ran, knew where to be. The guys were pissed but I gave them the rabbits. I hunted bunny's where guns could not be shot. Bow, slingshot, crossbow and even a blowgun. Never had less then 17 rabbits a day. Many pheasants shot out of the air with a bow or on the ground. We ate good in hard times.
Frogs and fish was another passion. Like Elmer said "I WAS THERE".

[jmort]

"True, a 3D target is better."

I never really thought about it, but it makes sense.

[JBinMN]

I am enjoying reading this topic. Even with the anecdotes. I would prefer to hear more about the subject of the OP & how they DO work for some, rather than other anecdotal posts, since I have had & shot a Ruger SRH since around 80 or so.
I used store bought bullets with jackets, but recently bought a mold (430SWC) to try out & even though I have casted about 300 boolits with it, I have yet to shoot any. Maybe today when the oldest son, DIL & grandboys come to visit.

Regardless, I bet they shoot just fine for what we use them for, in practice. I don't shoot much further than 25 yds for practice, nor more than that most of the time when hunting using shotgun since we are in a "shotgun/pistol" zone here in SE Minn..
I like to attribute my not having need to shoot further than that, due to my extremely fine tuned skills at sneaking up on them in their beds during the daytime & shooting them when they get up. ;-)

I have some anecdotes (with witness too), ya see. So, it is kind of fun to read about others. Maybe sometime I will tell ya about the "Shethouse Buck".
:)

^ A lot of truth & a little :kidding: ^

:razz:

Looking forward to the posts to come. Ya'll have a great day!
;)

[CDRGlock]

44man...with all due respect...if you are suggesting that a full wadcutter in 44mag is a pop gun...well, you don't know as much as I thought you did.

Just in case you don't know...a full wadcutter launched from a 44mag handgun will most certainly kill a deer at 50yds...put a hole all the way through. That ain't talk...that is a FACT. Matter of fact, they work so well, that the 200gr full wadcutter is the only cast bullet I shoot in my .44 levers, now...bang/flop at 75yds. My experience has shown them to be effective...very effective. This idea that the only thing that will work in .44 guns, is the heaviest bullets, is poppy cock.

Now, if I am hunting truly big game, like elk or moose, I want those heavy bullets...but they certainly are not necessary for most deer...at least, most of the ones that I have seen.

It is fine to prefer big, heavy bullets...but they are not the only thing that will work for a lot of folks.

And, they certainly generate less recoil for those shooters that are not into a lot of punishment.

I load 210s because of accuracy. So my 210 would be humane for a kill out to what distance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[44man]

I load 210s because of accuracy. So my 210 would be humane for a kill out to what distance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Very close. Velocity and energy will bleed off fast. You also lack penetration.
I see a difference in a close shot and a long shot with heavy. A deer shot at 25 will go down faster then one shot at 100. Energy difference. Start with low energy and range is shorter. Making the light boolit faster will not work.

[Forrest r]

Very close. Velocity and energy will bleed off fast. You also lack penetration.
I see a difference in a close shot and a long shot with heavy. A deer shot at 25 will go down faster then one shot at 100. Energy difference. Start with low energy and range is shorter. Making the light boolit faster will not work.

BBBBBBBWWWWAAAAAA-HHHHAAAAAAA-HHHHHHHAAAAA
Why don't you tell that to all the hunters that use 357's to harvest deer??? Heck back when I hunted deer I had no problem either using a 357 for 65yds or closer. Or a 44mag with a 220gr swc (h&g #142) out to 125yds.

Every time the topic of 44mag/bullet choices comes up it's always the same thing with you.
You can't use a bullet with a shoulder which means no one else can.
The bullets have to be 28bhn/30bhn or they won't shoot.

Then there's always pictures of deer, yup had to use a 475gr bullet in a 500mag to drop that scrawny 90# deer @ 65yds, yada-yada-yada.
Glad to see a 44mag in your hands isn't up to the task of deer hunting so you had to step up to a 500.

I just love when you post pictures of range trash with 1 or 2 holes in it. I get a good laugh wondering where the other 8, 10,20 shots went before you hit something. Your picture not mine, that 10-shot group you posted @ 50yds.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/cb45eb3b-24d1-45a0-a2af-79a3eceae39d_zpswpbtsna0.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/cb45eb3b-24d1-45a0-a2af-79a3eceae39d_zpswpbtsna0.jpg.html)

I can see why you don't like shooting paper. That 4"+ group at 50yds would make you look like a 1 legged man in a a$$ kicking contest if you went up against someone that knew what they were doing with nothing more than those lowly wc's you can't get to shoot. Glad you used 2 hands to shoot that one!!!!!

Out of everything you've posted the only thing I have found credible is that 50yd target. Any 160gr to 220gr wc with 6.0 to 7.0gr of either clays or bullseye will run circles around that 10-shot 50yd group of yours. o-ya forgot the all day long part

[44man]

You are a funny guy, sorry but you can't make me angry. The 10 shot group at 50 is 1-1/2". the lines on the target are 1" apart. Those are .45 holes.
You insert things, I do not have a .500 magnum, it is a JRH with a 440 gr. It is a .500 S&W special. I went to the larger guns for distance. The .44 peters out if shot too far. But I still hunt with it. Never be without one.
To see me shoot Clays or Bullseye for deer and someone should have a Billy club to smack me with.
Our deer are large, Many over 200#. I do like the meat from smaller, will not deny that at all.
All you show is you do not know the .44! I have shot mine to 500 meters and hit steel. To the uninitiated, that is 547 yards. Your popgun loads would never kill past 10 yards. Buy a .44 and shoot it like a .38. I feel you fear the gun. You show 25 yard groups larger then I have done at 100. I think you would fall of the seat if you shot a real revolver. Split forehead even from a real .44 load.
Go out and shoot your loads at 100 and come back with pictures, signed by others. I still will not believe you. Taffin shoots 6 shots and only measures the best 3. He does the same with a Ransom rest, just count the closest holes.
I will refer to you as Taffin jr.

[44man]

You amaze me, killing deer to 65 yards with a .357. My friend has a SRH he fears like the devil so he hunts with his .357. Loses over half the deer shot.
To claim you kill deer to 125 with a 220 gr SWC is another joke. I picture you looking for blood for a week. Do you use Clays or Bullseye?

[44man]

Mods, Please close this thread. False information can reach new members. I am ashamed to continue responding. It has become personal. You can delete anything I have said too.

[jmort]

Who are you to ask that the thread be closed???
You are not the O/P
How rude are you??? You keep saying it's nothing personal then this???
There is no "false information" in this thread. Just opinions.
It is no wonder you got sideways so many times here.
You have great experience and information, but it's like a broken record in the end.

[ShooterAZ]

OP here, 44man needs to grow up. He is the one that pooped in this thread and now he wants it closed? Really?

[OuchHot!]

False info??? from who? .22 gurl?
ok I buy that

[35remington]

Well it has gone south. Having been on the bad side of these kinds of discussions myself, sometimes people do get ornery. Me included.

I am of the opinion that wadcutters have considerable utility and I find them to shoot well but I have not done much with them in 44 caliber. Would be more helpful if this stayed on topic in terms of information.

[ShooterAZ]

Well it has gone south. Having been on the bad side of these kinds of discussions myself, sometimes people do get ornery. Me included.

I am of the opinion that wadcutters have considerable utility and I find them to shoot well but I have not done much with them in 44 caliber. Would be more helpful if this stayed on topic in terms of information.

I completely agree with you, that was my purpose for starting the thread so we could share information about 44 wadcutters. For some reason 44man decided to take it off topic right off the bat and disrupt the thread big time.

[tdoyka]

i still have 100+ 220gr wc from montana bullets. i guess(and i do mean guess!!!;)) that they should go 50 yards to kill a deer. after 50 yards, esp when using unique, they can key-hole. i've don't shoot my 44 much past 50 yards, so i don't know what the wc does. i have grouped them 1 3/4 -3" at 50 yards (benched) with a ruger srh(7.5"barrel), but i sold that one and i got a ruger sbh(4 5/8" barrel).

so i would guess, that it would 50 yards(guessing again:groner:)

[shoot-n-lead]

i still have 100+ 220gr wc from montana bullets. i guess(and i do mean guess!!!;)) that they should go 50 yards to kill a deer. after 50 yards, esp when using unique, they can key-hole. i've don't shoot my 44 much past 50 yards, so i don't know what the wc does. i have grouped them 1 3/4 -3" at 50 yards (benched) with a ruger srh(7.5"barrel), but i sold that one and i got a ruger sbh(4 5/8" barrel).

so i would guess, that it would 50 yards(guessing again:groner:)

If you can't kill a deer at 50yds with those wc's...it is your fault, not the bullet.

[tdoyka]

If you can't kill a deer at 50yds with those wc's...it is your fault, not the bullet.


yep, i know it will be my fault. i can only do 25 yards one handed(with nothing supported). i'm trying tho, its hard to do cuz i'm disabled(stroke). but i can do a 3-4" group at 25 yards(unsupported/ 5 shots). i have a hard time when i go to 30 yards(5+", unsupported), but i'm trying.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Tin cans and paper targets fear mention of my name and my .44 WC loads under the 100 foot mark.Robert

[arlon]

WHY? What do you want to achieve. Turn a magnum hunting gun to a pop gun.

Shooting bullseye, it makes a bigger hole.

[Forrest r]

I have 4 different wc/hbwc molds. The 200gr/200gr+ molds do extremely well in the 44mags. The 162gr button nosed lee an a custom de 175gr wc tend to do better in the 44spl's. Unfortunately I don't know how how accurate these bullets are because I didn't shoot shotgun shells can bottles plastic containers milk jugs coffee cups pie tins boxes bags things bigger than a bread box things smaller then a bread box no stinkin deer or other critters.

I can say any of them will hold the x-ring @ 50yds with several different loads. And the loads don't even have to knock down tall buildings in a single shot.

For the record, this is what a 200gr swc hp looks like along with the 220gr swc that I have taken deer with. This is also what a 1 1/2" group looks like,
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/142s_zpsf73eb48e.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/142s_zpsf73eb48e.jpg.html)

And yes there's that 6.0gr to 7.0gr of clays thing again. If I don't have any 44cal wc's cast I'll switch to these h&g # 142's for bullseye.

[44man]

Hard to let go. Some agree some never will. Long enough barrel to touch 25 yards and you will get one hole. Show SWC groups at hand touch distance but we are talking a WC here. No one has yet shown a 50 yard or farther WC group. How about 200 meters?
Too many dips, I was involved in a discussion about the .45 colt once but unlike experts I took 5 shots down and shot 50 yards Creedmore. I mean 10 minutes after it was said it could not be done.193038 Get off the keyboard and go shoot right now and see if you can make a vaquero shoot like this. I don't fool around. I test in minutes. I care less about 25 yards.
Would I ever waste a mold block for a WC?

[Forrest r]

Hard to let go. Some agree some never will. Long enough barrel to touch 25 yards and you will get one hole. Show SWC groups at hand touch distance but we are talking a WC here. No one has yet shown a 50 yard or farther WC group. How about 200 meters?
Too many dips, I was involved in a discussion about the .45 colt once but unlike experts I took 5 shots down and shot 50 yards Creedmore. I mean 10 minutes after it was said it could not be done.193038 Get off the keyboard and go shoot right now and see if you can make a vaquero shoot like this. I don't fool around. I test in minutes. I care less about 25 yards.
Would I ever waste a mold block for a WC?

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/bsmeter_zps47bb7171.gif (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/bsmeter_zps47bb7171.gif.html)

[JBinMN]

This is the OP, the Original Post>>>>


I did some searching on this site and a few others, there's really not a lot of load info out there for these. Even the Lyman 4th doesn't show any wadcutter loads. I bought this mold http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-190W-D.png, and it casts right at about 195 grains lubed with my alloy. So far, I have tried 5.5 gr of Bullseye, and 6 grains of Red Dot with good results. I'm wondering if any of you guys have any experience with 44 wadcutters, and what loads you prefer for yours. I have a plethora of other powders including Unique, 231, Titegroup and others. If you have suggestions, thanks for sharing!

Some folks may not have noticed... But there are others who "DO" want to shoot 44s with Wadcutters.

Regardless if others do NOT want to use them, he was asking about what those who "DO" want t shoot them & what they have to offer for suggestions..

I do not see where there was any request for why "NOT" to shoot them....

I have a Ruger SRH with a 7.5 in. barrel. I have not shot full WCs, only JHP & some of my own cast SWC just recently. I do not hunt with this weapon on a regular basis nor do I want to hunt with it often.

BUT... I do like to shoot it & have for close to 30-35 years.... I don't have a place where I can shoot more than 50 yards safely most of the time. So, I shoot at closer distances.

I would like to hear about the use of full WC.

I am all aware of some folks pasts that they tell of, talking about their abilities & their suggestions/opinions about other types of boolits, but in this topic I was hoping to hear more about Full WADCUTTERS in a 44... and the experiences of those who DO like to use them & what they have for suggestions about doing so...

JUST LIKE THE OP wanted..

Not long ago, I remember reading about someone wanting to close a topic. I hope this one does not.. I hope it goes back to where it started & folks can answer the OP & the questions , JUST AS WAS INTENDED..



I have a saying I like to use..

"You take your path & I will take mine."

We might get to the same destination or we might not. But , each one of us should enjoy the trip without others throwing rocks at us while we walk "our own" path....

Maybe some folks might want to just let folks take their own path , knowing that even though it is not the same, it is just fine for them to walk that path & learn on their own.

You want to drive the weapon to its extremes, to see what can happen,,,
while others want to just enjoy the ride & the view by just shooting & having a good time just doing that...

Maybe consider this... Not everyone wants to know your "trip report" of your path. They just want to enjoy their own...
;)

BTW, I do enjoy the tales, but not the way they are being told..{and once in a while, I used to be able to make things "hop" with the 44, but I am not that good any more, or out of practice, but I don't' talk about it much. I let others talk about it. }
;)

Anyone gonna help get this back to how them full WCs work & suggestions on USing them?
:)

[jmort]

@44man

Does it ever occur to you that others may want to do something different from what you do???
Why not go back and read the O/P???
Friendly post asking for input on something he and his family enjoy.

[dbarry1]

ShooterAZ - love full wadcutters in most of my revolvers. I would be right about where you are at with bullseye to keep it under 1000 fps. About 6 grains of unique for similar velocity.

Forrest - Enjoy the pics and information!

[TCFAN]

I am like the rest of you that like wadcutters. I love wadcutters. I have never had a 44 wadcutter mold so I have been using a Lyman 429215 mold that cuts a nice clean hole in the 50 yard slow fire pistol target.I use this boolit with a home made gas check and 6.3 grains of Trailboss powder in my Super black Hawk.. It work very well for me.

I don't need the big heavy boolits at wrist breaking speed any more.I out grew that years ago.I would like to see more posted on the use of 44 wadcutters for target shooting.

[runfiverun]

okay.
I cleaned up just this last page.


Jim:
c'mon man,,, let it go.

they want to talk about wad cutters and their uses.
they are NOT talking about 200 meter shots.

[jmort]

Bless you

[ShooterAZ]

Ahaa! Trail Boss, I honestly never even considered that one. I just looked in the cupboard, and I do have some of it. Thanks TCFAN for the reminder! That will be my next powder to try.

[TCFAN]

ShooterAZ...... Trail boss has worked very well for me in the 44 mag.Never had much luck with TB in any other cartridge.Sure don't have to worry about a double charge.

[44man]

okay.
I cleaned up just this last page.



Jim:
c'mon man,,, let it go.

they want to talk about wad cutters and their uses.
they are NOT talking about 200 meter shots.
OK, I understand the why. I will let it go.

[ShooterAZ]

I have a few loads laddered with Bullseye, Red Dot, and Clays. Before the weekend I will load some up with some Trail Boss. I will be shooting in both Ruger Blackhawk and 14" T/C Contender. I will report back with some range results. Thanks to those who posted in support of keeping the thread on topic!

[bluelund79]

Looking forward to the results. I love the WC in 38 and 357, so 44 would be awesome! I second TB, it's one of my favorites, or should I say Mrs. BL79 favorites. I wonder if RCBS has a full WC seating stem for their dies like they do for the 38/357?

[ShooterAZ]

I'm using the RCBS regular seating stem that came with my 44 dies. I'm seating these wadcutters with it and no problems at all, works perfectly. Just a very slight roll crimp in the groove.

[dbarry1]

Ahaa! Trail Boss, I honestly never even considered that one. I just looked in the cupboard, and I do have some of it. Thanks TCFAN for the reminder! That will be my next powder to try.

I've used trailboss in many pistol and rifle cartridges. Like it the 44 too.

[Forrest r]

Every time I see a post about trailboss it reminds me to get busy and do some testing with it. Looking forward to the test results also.

I've has such good loads with pretty much any 44cal bullet weighing from 160gr to 240gr and 6.0gr to 7.0gr of clays it's hard to move away from it. American select is absolutely outstanding in the 38spl/hbwc's & clays will cut the x-ring out with 4 different wc's. It's time to see what tb can do. My last powder order for target loads for revolvers.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/clayspowders_zpstjvuxwee.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/clayspowders_zpstjvuxwee.jpg.html)

I picked up #5 of tb and just haven't done anything with it. Shame on me.

Fast burning powders help with position sensitivity of the small/light target loads. WC's help take up case volume decreasing the position sensitivity of the small/light powder target loads. Bullseye is a favorite target powder for a lot of calibers. Those powders pictured above vs bullseye.
clays ='s 33% more case volume for the same load
AM-select ='s 23% more case volume for the same load
trailboss ='s 100% more case volume for the same load

Consistency ='s accuracy

Looking forward to the trailboss tests.

[ShooterAZ]

I love Clays too. I use it all the time in 38 Special and 45ACP. I tried it with the 44cal 200gr Wadcutter at 5.5 grains Clays, and it wasn't quite as good as the Bullseye (5.5gr) or Red Dot (6gr) loads. I think I will load some more up into the 6-7 gr range with Clays and see how they shoot. It's definitely much cleaner burner than the other two powders.

[35remington]

I also highly favor the deep seated wadcutter bullet in terms of ballistic consistency. Most of the revolver cartridges have excess capacity when loaded to standard or lower velocities. Extreme spreads in velocity are halved or more compared to shallower seated bullets.

This is of such relevance to me that wadcutters are my choice for my hot weather CC 638 Smith. Consistent performance powder forward or backward.

Simce most shooting that leads to hitting is done within a wadcutter's effective range I find them no real handicap for most shooting doable with a revolver.

Given I kinda like the Lee TLWC in .38, anybody have a similar example in 44 that they know of?

I do not want a button nose, just a totally flat front face. Keep in mind I am looking for something currently available. For no good reason I do not have a wadcutter in 44 and I need to rectify that. Due to the long case would prefer 240-260 grains if possible.

[ShooterAZ]

Tom over at Accurate Molds has the widest selection of 44 WC molds that I have seen. I ordered and received mine (190W) within a weeks time. Have a look at this one, perhaps this would be to your liking?http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-240Z-D.png

[35remington]

That is reasonably close.

[John in WYO]

"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun."

Sir, I must respectfully disagree on this statement.
The statement is a bit over broad. It might have been better accepted had it been prefaced with "In my opinion.."

I'd like to point out that tens of thousands of PPC and Bullseye competitors, as well as casual plinkers, also might disagree. Personally, I find utility in their use for cheap, fun shooting with friends and family. Low recoil loads encourage kids and women to shoot more. That's my experience. For the first 10 years of my current career, I found utility in their use for scoring targets from my, my partner's and recruit's revolvers, then in 1987 we switched to pistols.
Yes, we now know we should have then qualified with duty-level ammunition, but that was the way things were taught in the '70s, as well as the '50s and '60s.

That's one of the problems with the written word on forums. We sometimes write in "absolutes" when even science as we now know it may/will be proven wrong in the future. The Earth was once known to be flat. Pluto was a planet when I was in school.

Im not trying to continue an internet argument. I respect your wealth of knowledge and lifetime of earned experience. You obviously earned it through your experimentation and determination. Your tendency to write in absolutes, based on your experience, may conflict with the experience of others. That may be, or likely is, what causes some to be in conflict with some of your statements.

Hey, I enjoy what everyone contributes here. I rarely comment. But I learn a lot from all of you and your contributions here.

Thanks for letting me share my opinion.

Edit: I just read more pages of this post and see where 44man took offense and Run5run made some edits.
If this post stirs things up again, please feel free to remove it. I'm late to the party.

[ShooterAZ]

"There is no reason for a wad cutter in any gun."

Sir, I must respectfully disagree on this statement.
The statement is a bit over broad. It might have been better accepted had it been prefaced with "In my opinion.."

I'd like to point out that tens of thousands of PPC and Bullseye competitors, as well as casual plinkers, also might disagree. Personally, I find utility in their use for cheap, fun shooting with friends and family. Low recoil loads encourage kids and women to shoot more. That's my experience. For the first 10 years of my current career, I found utility in their use for scoring targets from my, my partner's and recruit's revolvers, then in 1987 we switched to pistols.
Yes, we now know we should have then qualified with duty-level ammunition, but that was the way things were taught in the '70s, as well as the '50s and '60s.

That's one of the problems with the written word on forums. We sometimes write in "absolutes" when even science as we now know it may/will be proven wrong in the future. The Earth was once known to be flat. Pluto was a planet when I was in school.

Im not trying to continue an internet argument. I respect your wealth of knowledge and lifetime of earned experience. You obviously earned it through your experimentation and determination. Your tendency to write in absolutes, based on your experience, may conflict with the experience of others. That may be, or likely is, what causes some to be in conflict with some of your statements.

Hey, I enjoy what everyone contributes here. I rarely comment. But I learn a lot from all of you and your contributions here.

Thanks for letting me share my opinion.

Edit: I just read more pages of this post and see where 44man took offense and Run5run made some edits.
If this post stirs things up again, please feel free to remove it. I'm late to the party.

Better late (to the party) than never. Hopefully he will refrain from "crashing the party" from here on out. Wadcutters are pretty awesome in my opinion. I'm getting some darn good groups from them in both my Super Blackhawk and my Contender. They are flat out accurate and fun to shoot. I size to .431 and lube them with BAC. No leading and the bore is bright and shiny after bunches and bunches of rounds.

[lightload]

For me in .38 Spl. Lyman's 158 grain RN always shot better than wadcutters, and decades before ever having heard of 44 Man, I came to the conclusion that the round nose shape guided the bullet in the forcing cone and thus was responsible for its accuracy. If somebody gave me a big batch of wc bullets, I'd use them for close range plinking. If I'm casting, I choose another shape. One reason is that I enjoy shooting out to 1-150 yards, and with other shapes, it's easier to get higher velocity and accuracy at the same time. That's my experience. I read the thread closely and saw no instance where 44 Man disrespected anybody. I'm not certain that he received the same courtesy. Sometimes I've posted on an AR forum where I'm thought of as a fudd and dirt clod shooter. In the recent past I shot a flying bird with my AR fudd rifle(cheap AR)and made the mistake of referring to hitting the bird in flight. I'm certain nobody believed me.

[Forrest r]

Well thank you lightload for the tip on the lyman 158gr rn bullet. Lyman made several different rn bullets for the 38spl. I used to cast rn bullets from a lyman mold, the 358311. If I remember correctly it was very accurate.

Are you referring to the 358311 or the 358250???

[44man]

You do not know my history with a SWC. I loved the original 429421 and the 358156. But I think guns were fit better long ago. I was 16 with the S&W 27. I hit a chuck in the head at 65 yards. short barrel and 2400 with a 358156HP. Nickle plated with peeled plating. I was given a pile of old .38 ammo and one stuck at the muzzle. I shot and split the muzzle. I sent it in and had an 8-3/8" ribbed barrel put on, Nickle stripped and blued. Cost $35.
We iced fished for blue gills and the warden got mad when we tossed 1" gills on the ice. I packed them in the little frozen juice cans, took them 100 yards and from us and from prone, blew them up. Since then I have never seen a revolver shoot a Keith or Thompson shoot from any revolver like from the old 27 or 1956 flat top. Or the original S&W 29. I would say today the .357 is the hardest to make shoot. We ran over 200 different loads through a freedom 357 and it never would get close to the old 27. I found throats at .357 and groove at .3599. And out of round.
But I still ask of what purpose is a full WC in a .44?

[runfiverun]

probably the same reason I shoot a full wad cutter in my 41 mag.
50 yds is a long ways with a handgun for me.
I could probably do better at further distances but I don't care to practice with a handgun that much.

I can kill ducks and geese out to about 75 yds easily with a shotgun or head shoot one with a rifle at 200.
I'd put money down on a head shot with one of my lever guns at 100 yds.
I spend my time with those.

handguns are short range messy affair type tools in my world, handy to have on the hip and effective when needed.

[44man]

My primary deer gun is a six gun. OK, a 5 gun with most. Who cares? Need one shot anyway. Yes I have missed but never had a deer wait for another shot. i will never see a WC of use.

[44MAG#1]

My question is this, why would what someone else wants to use be such a burr under the saddle of another.
If these guys want to use Wadcutter bullets that should be okay. Does it make any sense? I don't know. Maybe they want to simply because they can. Heck I sometimes shoot a sized to .452" 520 gr bullet in an Encore 454 Casull. Why one may ask is because it is getting tougher and tougher to get adequate penetration on this newer paper targets are made of. Especially at longer distances than 25 yards. And since we all know an Encore won't stabilize that big bullet because it needs to be spun up because of the slow twist rate my 101.57FPS is too slow to spin it up and there is no way this side of the blue sky it can be done because it has been proclaimed impossible.
So leave these guys alone, let them do what they want because they will anyway. Wasting one breath and typing fingers is stupid. It is like arguing with a woman or management of a company..

[44man]

My question is this, why would what someone else wants to use be such a burr under the saddle of another.
If these guys want to use Wadcutter bullets that should be okay. Does it make any sense? I don't know. Maybe they want to simply because they can. Heck I sometimes shoot a sized to .452" 520 gr bullet in an Encore 454 Casull. Why one may ask is because it is getting tougher and tougher to get adequate penetration on this newer paper targets are made of. Especially at longer distances than 25 yards. And since we all know an Encore won't stabilize that big bullet because it needs to be spun up because of the slow twist rate my 101.57FPS is too slow to spin it up and there is no way this side of the blue sky it can be done because it has been proclaimed impossible.
So leave these guys alone, let them do what they want because they will anyway. Wasting one breath and typing fingers is stupid. It is like arguing with a woman or management of a company..
Love ya.

[ShooterAZ]

Really?

[44man]

Really?
Yes, so much truth. Ever explain to a supervisor at work? Or to the wife? It is like trying to teach a 6 month old to tie shoes or poop in the pot.
I see many 6 month old guys here. Experience comes from reading a rag. That is if you can read of course.
Einstein said you can't exceed the speed of light. Time slows for you as you go faster.
Gravity is magnetizem so why does a strong magnet fall and not float? Beam me up so I can make things work that never will. Break the WC into molecules to re-assemble at the target.
But I was born a burr and spent my life to disprove every single thing. Not a single thing ever posted or written has not been tested.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I thought that this `Cow Pie Throwing Contest` of who is right or wrong was put to rest and this thread retired?Robert