To Brush or Not to Brush

[dale2242]

I have always used bronze brushes to clean my barrels.
Now that I am putting more money into a premium barrel, read Benchmark here, I started researching what the manufacturers recommended as far as using bronze brushes in their barrels.
Pac Nor says yes.
Lilja says yes.
Benchmark says NO
Volquartsen says they will void their warranty if you use them in their barrels.
Why such a difference in opinions?
OK, now I know most will say do what the manufacturer says.
WELL, what say you?...dale

[C. Latch]

The newer bore cleaners are supposed to work without brushing.

I don't have the answer, though.

[Wayne Smith]

With modern brass dissolvers use nylon brushes, otherwise you are dissolving your brush. Same with all cleaning equipment exposed to, for instance, Sweets.

[runfiverun]

they are saying no because the bronze brushes can scratch a soft steel.

[44man]

If a brush harms a barrel, it must be softer then the brush. Do you even want to shoot jacketed bullets?

[bedbugbilly]

While I understand the part of the new solvents being able to work on a bronze brush . . . as far as I know, a bronze brush is supposed to be softer than a barrel . . . if the barrel is so soft that a bonze brush is going to scratch it, then I would be looking for a different barrel to shoot.

What it boils down to is that it's your gun, your barrel and you have the option to use whatever you want to. If the barrel mfg. doesn't recommend it - still your choice. Personally, I think a lot of this is nothing more than "advertising hype" to sell another mfg. or their own cleaning supplies. I have used bronze brushes to clean many, many barrels of different types and calibers - cartridge and muzzle loaders - for over 50 years and the bores are just as good today as they were when I got them. Again, I think a lot of it is "advertising hype" to make you feel that their barrels are the "best" and thus, must be cleaned with a special expensive product. After all . . . you can't shoot lead boolits from a Glock barrel can you?

[wv109323]

My Hammerli pistols came with nylon brushes. You can damage the barrel more with the cleaning rod than the brush.

[Mk42gunner]

I don't really see how a bronze brush could harm a steel barrel, the manufacturer can put whatever conditions they want on their warranty. I would think if you were going to need to replace a barrel under warranty, you would know it well before it needed cleaning for the first time anyway.

It will be your barrel, clean it however you like until it you are satisfied.

Robert

[GhostHawk]

Simple, take some burned powder residue, add a liquid, turning it into a slurry. Now run it up and down in your steel barrel. It may not be the brush doing the damage, it may be the vehicle.

Diamond is way harder than most everything. How do they cut it? Polish it?

They grind diamond, use as a slurry or glue onto a surface, or embed it in metals with low melt point so that sharp diamond edges are sticking out but stuck into the metal.

Carbon is hard.

Me I have sworn off brushes, brass, bronze, with too many it is too hard to tell exactly what they really are. I have seen brushes that looked like brass/bronze that were steel electroplated to look like them. Tend to be the cheaper ones but how do you know?

Cotton Patch's, ATF (my current is Dextron III only because it was what I had)
Tight patch's, dampened with ATF, one pass, discard. Repeat. 2 or 3 damp ones then a dry one.

When nothing comes off anymore your done.

And I don't do it often, normally when a visual inspection shows leading or accuracy is failing.
I also much prefer to work from the breech end rather than the muzzle. Crown's can be delicate, aluminum rod, plastic or piece of paracord with a loop are my prefered tools.

It is one of the many reasons I like my Handi Rifles. It is just so easy, first to look and see, second to do whatever is needed.

[dverna]

I use bronze brushes, but I am not a benchrest shooter.

I would think those guys have the answer you seek. There is also a benchrest crowd that shoots cast. Not sure if you talking both cast and jacketed or just one.

[John Allen]

I personally have not ever worried about the brush as long as it is a good quality one. I however do prefer the coated or synthetic rods and use a bore guide. I think more barrels are ruined by this than any brush going up and down the bore a couple of times.

[xs11jack]

John I don't want to complicate your life but I think one should check the plastic sleeving on cleaning rods as some of the carbon may inbed it self into the plastic and act as a mini rasp on the barrel. I just run my fingers up and down after cleaning the cleaning rod to see if it is smooth.
Ole Jack

[country gent]

A lot of competitors adapt a cleaning process that cleans just enough to get thru the next match. Not always completely clean as this may cause changes in zeros until the bore is back to its fouling level. I use a Nylon, Phosphor Bronze, brass jags as needed to clean the bore. A patch wrapped around a nylon jags makes a pretty effective cleaning tool. The newer solvents are more chemical than mechanical so not as much "elbow grease" is needed. But the chemical cleaners may take a little more time to work though. ANother bigger No No is mixing different cleaners due to chemical reactions and changes to the solvents.

[John Allen]

John I don't want to complicate your life but I think one should check the plastic sleeving on cleaning rods as some of the carbon may inbed it self into the plastic and act as a mini rasp on the barrel. I just run my fingers up and down after cleaning the cleaning rod to see if it is smooth.
Ole Jack

Jack, I actually do that with a cotton ball to see if it grabs. I have gotten ridiculous with this. I collect 1800's guns and have a cleaning rod just for them to get the crud out.

[jcwit]

Take a piece of bronze rod and place it in the tool holder of a lathe, then chuck a piece of barrel steel in the chuck, turn the lathe on and see how long it takes to have a groove into the steel?

Now tell me you can not cut steel with a softer material!

[jcwit]

You can also do it with fiberglass, or try it with carbon fiber.

[runfiverun]

try a green scrubby pad on some steel or your neighbors paint job.
watch how quickly it scuffs right through it.

[woodbutcher]

:D Easy to tell difference between brass/bronze or electroplated steel.Take a magnet along next time you go shopping for cleaning supplies.
Good luck.have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[toallmy]

try a green scrubby pad on some steel or your neighbors paint job.
watch how quickly it scuffs right through it. I don't know, it might not go well .

[toallmy]

I have been considering trying out some of that foaming spray stuff in the long guns , because I find myself using a piece of clothing and a jig more than the brush , but that is with jackets .

[lightman]

I brush my Krieger barrels and I brushed my Douglas barrel. I use a coated rod and a bore guide. I never brush the barrel dry, it always has a coat of solvent in it before the brush gets there. My routine is to run a few wet patches through the barrel, let it sit for a few minutes, run a wet brush through it maybe 5 times, and patch it out.

[54bore]

I dont think they are needed with the solvents available to us today. I use a Nylon brush, most any of these 'super solvents' of today will eat a Bronze brush up in short order.

I read an article awhile back on this exact subject, the BIG barrel manufacturers, top shooters, etc. it seemed about a 50/50 Split on the use of Bronze bore brushes. Some swear by them, some swear at them

[Half Dog]

Well the tree finally fell on my head. I have seen plastic wear out stainless steel.

Thanks for the post, I've learned something useful this morning.

[jmort]

Here is some advice from the best of the best
http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

[Blackwater]

I've tried most of the various concoctions and brushes out there. My preacher's 7 mag. needed cleaning recently, and I thought from looking in the muzzle that it'd be an average cleaning job. Didn't turn out like that, though. After the initial effort, I found there looked to be MORE copper in the bore! My initial efforts just scrubbed off the black stuff off the top of it, showing all the copper in the barrel. He thought the barrel was worn out, but it turned out to just need a really thorough cleaning. I used my best copper solvents, leaving it rest for 15-30 min. before running a patch on a stiff nylon brush in it. Repeated doses of this finally got it almost squeaky clean. Took about 3 hrs. to get it there, though! Apparently, he'd just run some solvent or oil or whatever was handy in the bore, and let it go with that. Copper fouling CAN build up enough to ruin a barrel's accuracy, but cleaning it back to bare metal CAN "save" it. His is once again shooting like it did when new, now. Sometimes, we can create more problems in "saving time" than we actually save in the long run. I like to clean after every range session, which usually runs 50-100 rds. I think it saves me time in the long run, and I've (so far!) never had fouling affect my groups. Discipline ain't fun, but it sure pays off when we go with it, instead of "convenience!"

[flint45]

I have been using bronze brushes for 50 years know and still have not hurt anything it is a nonexistent problem to probably 95%of our shooting IMHO.

[Geezer in NH]

Easy way for a manufacture to deny warranty IMHO only reason it seems to me as shooters including winning bench guys used them for years.

Seems to be they want to make barrels out of cheaper steels.

[samari46]

I've known some bench rest shooters here in Louisiana and our range used to host the Crawfish Invitational every year. We'd watch the matches and stock up on supplies and I've never seen a shooter not use bronze bore brushes. Powder and copper fouling build up in layers and basically that is how you get a barrel clean by layers. I read the link that jmort posted And it seems that the thoughts regarding using bronze brushes versus the copper and carbon removal compounds are divided. Then again if you shoot a hot loaded cartridge your barrel and throat wear is accelerated and if you shoot a standard velocity cartridge not so much. I normally shoot 308, 30-06 and other military cartridges and use bronze bore brushes Only rarely do I resort to using abrasive compounds like JB or Rem Clean when I first get a mil surp because who knows how many rounds have been fired and when it has had a proper good clean out. So my cleaning process is different than a target shooter or bench rest shooter. Frank

[dale2242]

The more I read jmorts link the more I realize each shooter/manufacturer has his own differing opinion.

Since I am buying a Benchmark barrel, I called them and asked why they did not recommend using a bronze brush.
The tech told me that a bronze brush would not harm their barrels if used properly.
He said that if you used a bronze brush or brass jag with a copper removing solvent you would get a false indication that you still had copper in the bore because the solvent was reacting to the brush/jag rather than copper in the bore.
He recommended nickel coated jags such as Tiptons.

What I have learned is that a bore guide and gentle use of cleaning rods, jags, and brushes is what is most important......dale