1905 Hand Ejector 32 wcf

[ebner glocken]

I just bought a S&W 1905 w/ a 4" tapered bbl with 32 wcf marked on the bbl. Also bought a new ruger old army in the same buy, but that's for another post. The finish looks to be in 70% and 100% mechanical. After cleaning it looks like it has been fired extreamly little.

Any of you have one of these? If so, what shoots well in them? I have no experience with 32-20s at all rifle or handgun.

Ebner

[9.3X62AL]

Ebner--

You got yerself a GOOD 'UN! The 1905 HE series formed the basis of the S&W K-frame Military & Police revolver line, which still exists in some variants to this day. I have a later-series M&P x 5" in 32-20 WCF, which I enjoy very much.

More well-versed authorities than I'll ever be have classed 32-20 revolvers in three strength levels, going from lightest to strongest--

1) Colt Police Positive Special

2) S&W K-frames (HE, M&P), Colt New Army

3) Colt Army Special, Colt SAA

There is also the Ruger "Buckeye Special" Blackhawk variants in 32-20/32 Magnum convertible, which are in a strength class well beyond any of these classic models. Whole 'nuther critter. These strength classifications aren't hard-and-fast among all enthusiasts, but seem reasonable to me.

As far as revolvers go, the 32-20 can be a problematic caliber to make accurate at times. Reports from shooters of factory loads indicate that squib loads are a somewhat common occurrence, and a lot of 32-20 revolvers show swollen barrels where a shooter blew out a lodged bullet with a succeeding fired round. Even when all the rounds go off, factory loads can show some pretty wide velocity variations and resulting wide downrange dispersion. I have seen this myself with both old and recent factory ammo. MAKE CERTAIN that all rounds clear the barrel if factory ammo is being fired--a light recoil impulse or muzzle report is a BIG CLUE.

I found a 1980-vintage article by Ken Waters in his "Pet Loads" column in Handloader that became the single best source of loading information on the 32-20 WCF in wheelguns. Distilled into forum-friendly size, it recommended the use of SR-4756 powder as its "Pet Load", top-end being 6.0 grains of that fuel lit off by small pistol primers and launching 115-120 grain boolits like Lymans #311008 and #311316. In my Colt PPS, I used 100 grain boolits and 5.5 grains of SR-4756 and it shot right to the sights with fine accuracy. With either #311316 or a 120 grain Mountain Molds design I cobbled up, 5.5-6.0 grains of SR-4756 shoots VERY well in my S&W M&P and SAA Bisley. Velocities run about 900-950 FPS, which is roughly standard 1873-vintage blackpowder performance in a wheelgun. These DO IN jackrabbits with authority, and will cartwheel ground squirrels like nobody's business.

I would get Starline brass for this caliber. It is so far superior to the WW and RP weak-sistered casings that it bears no discussion. The latter cases will buckle and crumple if stared at hard or spoken to with brisk adjectives.

[Bret4207]

As usual, Al and I are agreement on things. The only thing I could add is that for some reason 32-20 brass seems to fire form into odd lengths. The really weird part is that the brass will SHORTEN rather than lengthen. I suggest anyone shooting a 32 WCF sort their once fired brass and trim to the shortest length. That will get rid of a great many fliers. Starline brass may not have this issue, I haven't had a chance to use any yet.

[Ghugly]

Brian Pearce has a good article in June's Handloader on loads for the 32-20. His standard load is 4.0gr of Universal under a Lyman 311008 in Starline brass for around 900fps at under the SAAMI standard of 16,000 CUP, from a 4 3/4" barrel.

[Glen]

What shoots well in them? This is what worked for me:

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellPreachersGun.htm

[Harry O]

I agree with everything AL said. One thing I would stress even more is to make sure the brass is trimmed to the same length, even if you have only one headstamp. I would say that 75% of the inaccuracy in these is due to variable length cases which give different crimps which give poor accuracy. Having an undersized bullet is most of the remaining inaccuracy. The Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 32-20 is a must and I was very happy with it when it first came out. However, trimming is still necessary.

Here is my take on reloading the 32-20 for handguns.

http://www.sixshootercommunity.com/articles/harry_o/reloading_32-20.html

[9.3X62AL]

GREAT MATERIAL from both Glen and Harry O! MANY THANKS!

Bret's comments about 32-20 brass doing weird things upon firing is consistent with my own experiences. It has grown length-wise unevenly on given cases and from case to case (same load), and once in a while seems to have contracted as Bret noted. Some of this may be due to the thin-walled brass from Red Square and Big Green, but it is also present with the Starline to a lesser degree--a thing I've noted more recently since using the SL brass in the wheelguns.

I've read somewhere that 32-20 and a number of the other hyphenated Winchester WCF calibers suffer from some rather poetic chamber dimensional standards, and these standards inflict themselves not only on revolver and rifle chamber dimensional integrity--but also upon the die makers' practice and products. Can't say for sure, 'cause even after five 32-20 revos my experience is at best limited--but all of them have produced case-stretch anomalies of one sort or another. Some calibers just made the transition from The Holy Black to The Smokeless Pretender more gracefully and deftly than others, I suppose.

[Glen]

Al, you have a gift with words -- "...rather poetic chamber dimensional standards..." -- I wish I could come up with stuff like that! That is wonderful!

[NoDakJak]

Yep! I have a Hand Ejector in 32-20 and it is a round butt beauty with genuine Ivory grips. I have not shot it much as of yet however. Most of my testing and shooting was performed with a fine Colt Police Special. I absolutely agree with everything that both Al and Bret stated above. Cases wouldn't even come close to interchanging between the two revolvers. The cases fired in the Colt did fit into my Savage Model 23 however.
You bet those cases shorten. My theory is that it is similar to firing a 22 Hornet in a K-Hornet chamber. The Hornet has pressures high enough that the neck clings to the chamber walls and the shoulder is thinned as the case fire forms. The 32-20 just doesn't have pressures that high and the mouth is pulled to the rear to replace the metal that is hoved out to fireform the case. I may not be right but that is my theory.
The worst piece of advice that I ever recieved was to use a Lyman "M" die when loading cast boolits in the 32-20. When I ceased using it my flucuations dropped from as much as 400 fps by fifty percent. Switching from alox to a hard lube reduced it even more but I hit paydirt when I polished the expander button down about a thousandth. Some of the cases look like a snake swallowing an egg but it certainly helped accuracy. Make sure that you kee your cases trimmed. Trim after the case is sized! I have been using 32-20 cases to make 7.62 Nagant revolver ammo. I would state that it is every bit as precocious as the 32-20 but I think that the term perfidious is more apt.
Neil

[9.3X62AL]

The Nagant round has inspired adjectives a lot more aromatic than "perfidious", I dare say. Can you imagine being an officer in the Imperial Russian armed services--having had a fine S&W #3 variant in 44 caliber as your duty sidearm--only to have it replaced by that little contraption? That move ranks right along with the Famous $500 Toilet Seat as the king of government-issue boondoggles of all time.

[NoDakJak]

That change from the 44 Russian to the dinky 7.62 was an even bigger boondoggle than our switch from the 45acp to the piss ant 9 mm. The little Nagant does make a fine small game round however. 311008 works great in it.
Did you ever think that the $500 Toilet Seat and the $200 Hammer funded Black Ops? I don't think that we will ever know for sure but I suspect it.
Neil

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't run the Nagant on critters, yet--it will connect on 35 yard dinger plates pretty reliably at Angeles Shooting Ranges, though. It needs a jackrabbit safari very much--as does its owner.

If the seats and hammers funded black ops on bad guys, then it's all good. I would be more inclined to believe vendor/rep bass boats and travel trailers were enabled through this means, though.