Problem with 45/70 Remington brass

[Ken@ MN]

Newby here: I just tried loading cast bullets yesterday for the first time using Remington and Hornady brass. I used a Lee die to resize the brass. The Hornady brass worked just fine but the Remington brass bulged out in two places so I could not close the chamber. Have I done something wrong or is the Remington brass just not suitable for cast bullets. The cast bullets I was reloading were 350 grain Oregon laser cast. The Remington brass worked just fine when used it to reload 325 grain Levereverlution bullets.
Thank you in advance for any help you may give!

[plainsman456]

I think that the only thing that might do that is the Hornaday brass is shorter.

if the dies were set for them and then other makes are put in bad things happen.
I learned this the hard way,just glad it was only a few pieces.

[KenH]

Not sure if it's the problem or not...... Ooops, I see Plainsman already mentioned the Hornady brass is shorter than normal 45-70 brass, and if you crimped the Hornady brass, then tried to crimp the Remington brass, it would most likely bulge the Remington brass because it's longer.

Ken H>

[BK7saum]

Too much crimp due to remington brass being full length. Excess crimp bulged the case. I'd separate by headstamp and then load each batch separately.

[NSB]

Hornady LeveRevelution brass is shorter than industry specs so that it feeds in lever guns. Measure the length of both cases and see if there is a significant difference in length and you'll have the answer to your question.

[buckshotshoey]

All of the above. Hornady Is shorter for a reason. So they can use the longer (tube safe) ballistic tip. Sort your brass.

Case length is critical to achieve a consistent crimp. Keep them trimmed to .001 of each other. Measure all cases before reloading.

Also seat bullets and crimp in two separate operations. This will also help with achieving a consistent crimp without case and bullet damage.

[runfiverun]

I have a feeling the bulged out brass is from the crimp being set on the Hornady cases, and the Remington brass is longer.
this would crumple parts of the case bulging it out.

[44man]

Yes crimp, the OP missed the foreskin loads a friend made with the .444.191931 He made the mistake as a new loader to read the net that said "crimp hard".

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Yes crimp, the OP missed the foreskin loads a friend made with the .444.191931 He made the mistake as a new loader to read the net that said "crimp hard".

Those should fireform just fine.jk


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[Engineer1911]

The case rim is on the wrong end!

[David2011]

Is there any reason Ken shouldn't trim the Remington to the same length as the Hornady?

[MT Chambers]

Folks should not mix brass for any caliber, problems such as length, internal capacity differences, etc.

[mold maker]

He isn't the first to learn that lesson and I suspect there is a great following in that 45-70 school.

[JimB..]

Is there any reason Ken shouldn't trim the Remington to the same length as the Hornady?

Probably not, but I keep them separate so I know what's what. If it's hornady I save it for reloading those jelly tips and if it's anything else I keep it at full length for cast. Just dislike the idea of cutting good brass to the "wrong" length to accommodate a commercial round that I don't shoot often.

[pjames32]

I use the short Hornady stuff for my single shot and don't really crimp it. That said I also use a Cowboy die set from RCBS. You have to adjust it down to bell for the Hornady stuff which reminds me not to crimp. Sort your brass. My Hornady brass will soon age out and I'll be happy to be done with it.

[buckshotshoey]

Is there any reason Ken shouldn't trim the Remington to the same length as the Hornady?

Yes. In my case, using a Lee 3 die set, I couldn't get the seating die adjusted down far enough to get it to crimp. I had to "improvise". Not worth the trouble when there is really good Starline available.

[plainsman456]

I only have a box of Hornaday brass so they are kept by themselves.

I put the Star,Rem.and other brass in the same pot.

They can be trimmed to whatever length you want,just remember what you did to them.

[Lostknife]

I turned 0.050" off the base of my Lee factory crimp die inner collet to use with the shorter Hornady cases, works great for my cast bullet loads and use the Bonanza seater/crimper die for all the rest of the brass that are "normal" length.
Lost

[muskeg13]

Both Hornady and Remington and almost every other brand available in the US is good brass, perfectly suitable for reloading with cast bullets. Never rely on a certain make of brass to be a certain length. Case lenghts vary all over the place, especially after several firings, and if you didn't buy the brass new, you have no idea how long it may be until you measure it. If you are going to reload and don't have have one, buy a dial calipher and check the case lenghts against what the lenght is supposed to be according to the drawing in your reloading manual (assuming you are reloading with data from a manual). Trim all the cases to the recommended lenght, and then check them occasionally after firing. Over time they will "grow" and need to be trimmed. This is normal. After many firings and trimming, the cases will eventually stretch and thin to the point of failure and should be thrown away at some point before you have a case separation. Cases about to fail usually show a crease around the circumference of the lower part of the case body near the rim.

Using straight walled cases that headspace on the rim and are slightly shorter than recommeded is no problem as long as you adjust your crimping die to form the crimp on the shorter cases. This is as easy as turning the crimp die in or out of your loading press, and then tightening the locking ring. You should never have to turn (machine) any material off of your dies under normal circumstances.

Industry spec length for the 45-70 is 2.105". How short are the "short" Hornady cases?

[muskeg13]

The original posting said that the problem occurred when trying to load 350 gr cast bullets in Remington cases, but there were no problems with LeveRevolution bullets or when using the cast bullets in Hornady cases. The problem may not be case lenght, but could be related to how the cast bullets fit in the neck of the Remington cases. Were the case mouths flared to accomodate the cast bullets? The bases of LeveRevolution bullets are tapered, so they will enter the case easier and the harder bullet jackets will not catch/hang up on a tight fitting case neck. It could be that the cast bullets are catching on the case mouths, and as more pressure is exerted by the loading lever to seat the bullets, Remington cases are being buckled. Hornady cases may not have as much problem accepting cast bullets because maybe the fit isn't as tight, the case mouths might be slightly flared or the cases might be a bit stronger. I've noticed that new Hornady .405 Winchester brass is extremely stout, much thicker than old Winchester .405 brass.


After checking Remington .45-70 case lenghts, try flaring the case mouths slightly so that the cast bullets can just be started into the necks by hand. Then, fully seat and crimp them. The other thing to look for is where the crimp groove, or lack thereof, is on the Laser Cast bullets. If you are trying to apply a standard roll crimp where there isn't a crimp groove or grease groove on the bullet, particularly with a hard bullet alloy, you can easily cause the case to bulge. The remedy is to adjust the seating depth to where the case mouth can be crimped into a groove.