Farmingdale 1874 Sharps

[Stoneke]

New to the forum and to black powder cartridge shooting. Just purchased a Shilo Farmingdale #3 Sporter in 45-70. 30 inch barrel with 20 inch twist. Serial # in the 3200 range. Bore .451, groove .457. I know that much experimentation is before me, but I was wondering if any readers had experience with a similar Farmingdale. I haven't yet cast the chamber to determine dimensions, but expect to shortly. The rifle has a Shaver globe, with level, and a Kelley Soule mid range tang sight. I don't anticipate shooting a more than 500 to 600 yards at most. Any info is greatly appreciated.

[BrentD]

If you have the original barrel on the gun, be careful when you do the chamber cast. What you find may scare you.

I have a .45-100 #3 Farmer. It was a .45-90 when I got it, but I rebarreled it after killing an elk with it.

This can be a very difficult rifle to work with, but it is doable.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Africa%202006/Eland%202006%20small.jpg

[BrentD]

This is what my original .45-90 Farmer chamber looked like
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/M74%20Sharps/Farmingdale%2045-90%20chamber.jpg

[Boz330]

If you have the original barrel on the gun, be careful when you do the chamber cast. What you find may scare you.

I have a .45-100 #3 Farmer. It was a .45-90 when I got it, but I rebarreled it after killing an elk with it.

This can be a very difficult rifle to work with, but it is doable.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/Africa%202006/Eland%202006%20small.jpg

Brent, I use to guide elk hunters and I never saw one quite like that. :-)

Bob

[BrentD]

Aye, just a little spike bull.

Be glad you didn't have to pack him out though.

[BrentD]

Aye, just a little spike bull.

Be glad you didn't have to pack him out though.

[Boz330]

I was always pretty lucky never had to pack too far to a truck or 4 wheeler. Those evening kills made for a supper at midnight or 1 in the morning though and it wasn't hot.

Bob

[John Allen]

Are you planning on running blackpowder or smokeless? I personally only run blackpowder in those big cases but others do use smokeless. I would recommend a 500 grain to 550 grain cast bullet, blackpowder, wad, ribbon lube and then another light wad under the bullet. I use playing cards under the bullet.

[BrentD]

John, with a lube cookie, put the light wad (i like just wax paper or parchment paper, between powder and lube. Anything heavier simply scrapes the lube out as fast as it is laid down. Put the thick wad between bullet and lube.

Bob, to be honest, they snaked a truck back in to get the eland out. I've packed a few elk though. They can be tough, especially for an Iowa guy who doesn't spend a lot of time over 10,000 ft

[Stoneke]

Thanks for the comments so far. I plan to use only black powder. I have lots of 2F, but plan on getting some 1 1/2F. My barrel twist is 1:20, so I will likely limit the weight to 500 gr bullets. Any suggestions on the casting process - probably some advise to be found if I do a search. I have ordered cerrosafe from Brownells and plan to chamber cast on Saturday. I have a 6x6 bull elk (337 inches) shot 40 miles from home here in Oregon with a 45-70. Unfortunately, not with a Sharps, but a Marlin 1895. Now hunt the elk with a full stock 54 Hawken in flint ignition.

[Boz330]

The Lyman Postel is hard to beat for an off the shelf mold. If you don't have any casting experience you can find almost anything on youtube or here for that matter. 20-1 pure lead to tin as a starter. Get a Lee pot to start and after that you can spend as much as you want. When I got my 74 Pedersoli I started with 68gr of Old Eynsford 2F and the Postel and it shot good enough that I never found anything better. Shot that combo out to 1200yd.

Brent, an Eland can top a ton so that is some serious meat to move. It would take me about 2 weeks to finally get use to the altitude when I got out to NM. Most of our hunting was in the 7500 to 8500ft range. Had to go easy on the hunters since you couldn't quarter them to get them out.
Where did you get the Eland? Kind of looks like South Africa or Namibia. I worked in SA back in 82 & 83 but started making hunting connections about the time I came back. I really wanted to hunt a Kudo. My boss offered me a Kudo hunt if I would sign on for another year but my wife had already come back to the states. It would have been a financial mistake had I stayed since the Rand headed into the dumper right after I came home.

Bob

[BrentD]

the eland was in Namibia. It wasn't a 2000 pounder, but it certainly was bigger than any elk I've ever seen. Maybe 1500-1700 I suppose. It was a great trip.
http://bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=753

If I ever go back, it will be for kudu or buffalo. I can't really afford the latter though, so that's super unlikely. I'd rather hunt out west or in Alaska though. After watching kudu when we were over there, it stuck me that they were the most elk-like of the African antelopes so far as hunting goes. I would like to give them a try sometime, but then, why not just stay here and hunt elk :).

[Big Mak]

There is an Oregon meat farm you can shoot Eland at, for a price. Still cheaper than going over the pond and back. :)

BrentD, how do they taste? Any comparison to Elk, Moose, Beer or Reindeer? (those I've eaten)

[BrentD]

Big Mak, I sure wish I could say. That night, we had to travel so I didn't get a steak out of it. It was the only animal that I didn't get to eat, and I've heard they are better than anything else in Africa, and even much better than Moose or Elk. My favorite big game bounces back and forth between antelope and moose. But Elk is right up there. Eland is supposed to be really special, but I've never been able to try it. Warthog is awesome too.

[Big Mak]

Big Mak, I sure wish I could say. That night, we had to travel so I didn't get a steak out of it. It was the only animal that I didn't get to eat, and I've heard they are better than anything else in Africa, and even much better than Moose or Elk. My favorite big game bounces back and forth between antelope and moose. But Elk is right up there. Eland is supposed to be really special, but I've never been able to try it. Warthog is awesome too.

Awesome.
Antelope surprised me! Really good meat!

[BrentD]

Antelope is so good and so underrated, but so easy to ruin in the field or truck. I freeze mine on dry ice in the field within a few hours of killing it. That is the greatest. Had a steak tonight as a matter of fact.

[Stoneke]

I agree that Pronghorns are both my wife's and my favorite - even over elk. Cubed, breaded with Panco and seared in a hot fry pan. Back to the main topic of this post: Besides trying a cerrosafe chamber casting, I'm going to try a lead impact impression of the chamber. Has anyone done such an operation? Alleged to be more acuarate than a casting.

[BrentD]

Yes, I've done it and it is very precise and "easy" to do. But a bit scary and hard on stuff.

My method, since I was interested in only the chamber mouth and throat/lead, was to use a case that I shortened a little bit and then I filled it mostly full of of lead or maybe it was wooden dowel. On top of that, I placed a 550 gr, pure lead paper patch bullet. The chamber was lightly lubed with swaging lube (don't forget to clean this out later).

The rifle was placed on a thin rug on a concrete floor, a steel cleaning rod (in my case a 1/4" rod with fixed handle) with a jag on the end was taped with blue masking tape every 6". the tape was made thick enough to just barely fit into the bore w/o resistance. The rod was inserted in the muzzle and then beaten HARD with a rubber mallet. the jag had a little bit of a tip or taper to it that helped expand the lead slug, but it took a while to expand it enough to fill the bore/throat/chamber mouth. I removed the slug every once in a while to see how it was progressing and then carefully reinserted it with the same alignment to continue.

No damage was done to the bore, but the rod's 8x32 threading was very loose before this was all over and I eventually rethreaded this to 10x32 w/o redrilling the rod. I still use it today, but only for normal cleaning purposes. I have made a dedicated rod from tool steel now. It has no threaded tip, just a polished round nose tip, it is thicker (less flex on being beaten) and it has a "handle" that is a larger piece of round steel that prevents damage to the rod or hammer. It works much better, but still has to be taped, of course.

I hope this helps.
Brent

[Boz330]

the eland was in Namibia. It wasn't a 2000 pounder, but it certainly was bigger than any elk I've ever seen. Maybe 1500-1700 I suppose. It was a great trip.
http://bpcr.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=753

If I ever go back, it will be for kudu or buffalo. I can't really afford the latter though, so that's super unlikely. I'd rather hunt out west or in Alaska though. After watching kudu when we were over there, it stuck me that they were the most elk-like of the African antelopes so far as hunting goes. I would like to give them a try sometime, but then, why not just stay here and hunt elk :).

The weekend before I came home from SA a friend threw a going away party with grilled Gemsbok loin which was excellent. He informed me that he needed 6 guys to fill out a cull hunt for Buffalo and it was shame I was leaving. A Buff hunt even back then was 6K and this one would be free although I would have to find a rifle to hunt with. It seems that I was just getting to the point where I was making the connections enough to hunt free down there when I had to leave. I did get out to a local farm to hunt Blesbok one weekend which wasn't much of a challenge.
One of the guys that I worked with down there had moved back to England but was going down every couple years to hunt, invited me on a Gemsbok hunt in 93. Unfortunately the monetary situation didn't allow me to go at that time and the political situation was forcing the friends down there to move to other countries and I never got another chance to go.[smilie=b:

Bob

[Stoneke]

I did an impact (swagged) chamber impression and found that my free-bore measures .375 with a .463 diameter, the bore is .452 and groove .457. At this point, I think I should be relieved, knowing that load development and shooting is the final word.

[Stoneke]

I'm looking for a suggestion for a 500 gr. or so Grease Groove bullet that might be suitable for my chamber as described in the previous post. I'm initially looking for a suggested commercially cast bullet and then look for a suitable mold for casting.

[Lead pot]

If you indeed have a shallow 2-1/2 thousands deep groove in that rifle a paper patched bullet patched to bore diameter would serve you better then a GG. A PP bullet seems to favor the shallow grooved bore. I have a rifle with a three thousand deep groove and it shoots the PP a lot better then a GG. The original 74 Sharps I have looked down the bore have very shallow grooves and they shoot very well with the patched bullets. Also a duel diameter patched bullet that fits the freebore and bore would also be something to look at. But this would take a custom build mould.
Kurt

[Stoneke]

My error: The bore measures .450 with a .457 groove. The twist is 1:20. Would I be best served with bullet weight of 425 to 500 grains? I won't be shooting at distances over 600 yards.

[BrentD]

I think that is a fine bullet weight range to be in. Something without too much of a pointy nose will be short enough. I would look at whatever will fit in that freebore.

[Gunlaker]

I would definitely want a bullet that is the same diameter as the freebore, or as close as you can find.

I had a rifle with a .463" diameter freebore but it was a much shorter than yours. I was able to make it shoot reasonably well with a 0.460" bullet that had reduced driving bands up front to help align the bullet. It shot smaller diameter, hard, bullets quite well with smokeless though, as long as they were seated to engrave the rifling.

Chris.

[Stoneke]

This shows my lack of knowledge, but if I was to use a .460 bullet, would that not be exceeding the size limit for a .450/.457 bore?

[Gunlaker]

With a soft bullet and black powder, going well over groove size won't hurt safety wise. It will get swaged down to groove size. The problem accuracy wise is that the black powder will bump up the bullet to the diameter of the freebore anyway. If the bullet is small in diameter this bumping up is likely going to cause the bullet to be unbalanced which will result in poor accuracy. Think of it like this, if you have a .457" bullet say 1.4" long, you'll have most of that bullet entirely unsupported by the chamber, or the rifling. Maybe 0.7" of the bullet will be the nose, and another 0.375" will be in the freebore. That's 1.075" of your bullet that is not supported or aligned if it's seated out all the way. If the bullet is the diameter of the freebore, or very close, say 0.001" under, then it has little room to get bumped up out of balance, plus it is more likely to be aligned with the bore.

I believe that Brent has shot one of these freebored early Shiloh rifles. I'd go with whatever he recommends for a bullet.

Chris.

[BrentD]

I"m no expert with those early freebores, but I shot mine with fat bullets. As long as I could chamber the bullet so that it would reach the beginning of the lands, it wasn't too fat. The bullets I started with were made by Bruin and were .452" before patching. After patching they were easily .459+

bobw over on the shiloh forum has some experience with these chambers and has a bit more luck with them.

[flint45]

I have a Shilo sharps very simlair to yours its at its best with a .460 boolit, barrel is .458 .525 grs. 64 grs of Goex ctg. wlr primer over powder wad and 1/8 in. compression.