30-30/Red Dot

[Texas by God]

I 've loaded a handful of NOE 170(176grs) plain base with 7.1grs Red Dot(1.0cc Lee dipper) for my 30-30 to try today. Does anyone like RD for this? These are my first cast loads to try in my just completed 1926 Oviedo Mauser 30-30.
Best, Thomas.

[JPinMI]

Sorry, no I haven't tried it but I'm interested in how it works out for you. I just acquired my first 30-30 and have a good supply of red dot

[scattershot]

I like Red Dot, and have used it in the 30/30. Can't remember the exact load, but it was close to yours, amd I'll dig it out later when I get a minute. I have tried it with and without a Dacron filler, and can't see much difference. I was using a Marlin 336, you should get great accuracy with your Mauser.

Keep us posted.

Just checked, it was 6.5 grains.

[bedbugbilly]

I havne't got my loading data with me - it's back in MI - but I use Red Dot in 30/30 and it does well for me. I have played with a 150 ish grain plain base as well as a 170 ish - as well as both with GC and if I remember correctly, my load was just under yours. Out of a Winchester Ranger 30/30 and my old Marlin 336SC they shot pretty well. I was limited to 50 yards and was working on the loads prior to coming to AZ for the winter.

Please let us know how your range time goes. I like Red Dot. It works well in my old GEW98 8mm as well but I only shoot lighter loads. I have a number of different powers but I have a 8 pound jug of Red Dot sitting on the shelf for a reason - it works!

[Mk42gunner]

Several years ago I used Green Dot for loading plinking loads in the .30-30 for use in an H&R Model 158. They worked acceptably; so I have no doubt Red Dot will work, it is just finding the sweet spot for your rifle and load.

Robert

[jmort]

This is the data I use

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm (http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm)

[typz2slo]

I use Reddot for my 30/30 for cast. It will smokes like a chimney with my traditional lube but its clean with my PC boolits. I will have to look to verify but if I remember correctly I am using 8.0gr with a 150gr cast boolit.

[JWFilips]

5 Gr Red Dot is good for me with a 165 gr boolit in my JM marlin 30-30 Boolit sized .311

[RickinTN]

I have recently been working with several bullets in the 140 to 180 grain range in the 30-30 with between 6 and 8 grains of Red Dot. One thing is for sure, A little goes a long ways. I'm using it for plinking loads and the results are certainly acceptable. I'm thinking with a plain based bullet you may get better results with a charge in the 6 grain range, but that is of course just a guess.
Good Luck, and have fun,
Rick

[Thumbcocker]

Happiness for me was around 6 grains with a 170 grain boolit.

[Texas by God]

I have recently been working with several bullets in the 140 to 180 grain range in the 30-30 with between 6 and 8 grains of Red Dot. One thing is for sure, A little goes a long ways. I'm using it for plinking loads and the results are certainly acceptable. I'm thinking with a plain based bullet you may get better results with a charge in the 6 grain range, but that is of course just a guess.
Good Luck, and have fun,
Rick
I will try that. The 7.1 charge grouped around 3" at 40 yards but this was sitting with a bipod and a trigger that hasn't improved in 90+years.....

[jmort]

5 Gr Red Dot is good for me with a 165 gr boolit in my JM marlin 30-30 Boolit sized .311

That is a good choice based on the data linked

[rintinglen]

+1 on 5.0 grains of Red dot.
I have used it with a 311-291, as well as a 311-245 with complete satisfaction out to 50 yards.

[JWFilips]

Yes I have used it with the 311291 also 5 gr very nice!

[Treeman]

6.4 gr Red Dot and 165gr gc design without the gas check tumbled in Liiquid alox gives me 1050 fps in my 30/30. It is a hoot to shoot.

[Texas by God]

I'm trying 5.6 grs under the 170 and also the Lee 150 fpgc. Shouldn't be too loud.
I'll get on the bags this time and give it a fair test.

[barrabruce]

Got a picture of that mauser.

Iv'e used some adi powders of similar burn rate and my 30-30 shot well.
Mine seamed to like a soft lube and bullets better.
50/50 bw and vas but anything soft should work.

[Texas by God]

Swirling winds today so I shot at 40yds. 6 shot groups with both boolits were 1-1/4" with no earplugs needed. I played chase the bullet on plain cardboard for a 1/2" 3 shot group with the Lee bullet, it fed better too. Pictures of the project are in the barrel works / gun smithing section.
I'm happy with this for a plinking/small game load.
Best, Thomas.

[Outpost75]

Good data happily shared by all. I am late to the party here but have little to add.

Used lots of Red Dot over the years,

2.5 grains in .32 S&W Long with 98-105 grain bullet
3 grains in .32 H&R Mag and .32-20 with 100-120 grain bullet
4 grains in 7.62x39 with 150-162 grain bullet
5 grains in .32-40 with 170-grain bullet
6 grains in .30-30 with 130-170 grain bullet, and in .44-40 with 200-grain bullet
7 grains in .30-40 Krag with 200-230 grain bullet, and in .44 Magnum with same weight
8 grains in .30-'06 with 160-grain cast bullet
13 grains in .303 Brit, .308 Win., .30-'06 7.9x57 with pulled military FMJ Ball bullets.

[Texas by God]

I may try it in the .358 for a play load. I'm loading some hunting loads-cast & jacketed-soon.

[LeadPoisonTX]

Better late than never... I was after a Target Load for my Winchester '94 30-30. My 175.5 grains 311041 load development went from 4.1 to 7.0 grains of Red Dot, with powder coated, no GC, and unsized boolits. This load combination hit an accuracy node at 4.5 to 5.1 grains in my rifle. I used the Lee Factory Crimp to apply a firm crimp and obtain consistent ignition. No Filler. Below are pictures of my targets, 4-shot groups at each progression at 25 yards open sights (my sight is not what it used to be), and velocity data. I will do another round of test, but this time at 50 and 100 yards (if I can hit the side of a barn at 100 without a scope...)

19472519472619472719472819472919473519473619473719 4738194739

[ohiomadman]

Better late than never... I was after a Target Load for my Winchester '94 30-30. My 175.5 grains 311041 load development went from 4.1 to 7.0 grains of Red Dot, with powder coated, no GC, and unsized boolits. This load combination hit an accuracy node at 4.5 to 5.1 grains in my rifle. I used the Lee Factory Crimp to apply a firm crimp and obtain consistent ignition. No Filler. Below are pictures of my targets, 4-shot groups at each progression at 25 yards open sights (my sight is not what it used to be), and velocity data. I will do another round of test, but this time at 50 and 100 yards (if I can hit the side of a barn at 100 without a scope...)

19472519472619472719472819472919473519473619473719 4738194739Great post. I use the same boolit with 5.7gr of Red dot in a H&R model 157 and usually can get 3 touching at 25yds
I was wondering what the fps was, now I got a good ideal.

[GhostHawk]

That 4.5 to 5 node is a good one, and thus far 4.6 has given me good accuracy in everything from .223, the various .30's, through the .357. The .357 with 4.6 grains of Red Dot and the Lee .358 158 gr round nose does awesome in my handi rifle.

I also recently tested some 4.6 grains of Red Dot in a .444 marlin case with a 220 gr boolit. Worked fine, very mild report and recoil. But had scope issues so need to go back another day to see how the accuracy works out.

Beats the heck out of loading 30-50 grains of powder just to punch paper when 4.6 will do.

[LeadPoisonTX]

Great post. I use the same boolit with 5.7gr of Red dot in a H&R model 157 and usually can get 3 touching at 25yds
I was wondering what the fps was, now I got a good ideal.

Thanks Ohiomadman. I'm glad this helped you get a rough idea of the velocity you might be getting out of your load/rifle combination. My Winchester '94 has a 20 inch barrel, if that helps you guesstimate the velocity out of your barrel.

[TCLouis]

Texas by God

Are you loading from the magazine, or single shot?
If you are loading from the magazine did you have to modify anything to get it to feed?

[LeadPoisonTX]

Are you loading from the magazine, or single shot?
If you are loading from the magazine did you have to modify anything to get it to feed?
I'm not sure if your question is for me, but just in case, yes these feed from the magazine without any special treatment. Cases trimmed to 2.030", boolit seated to crimp groove for COL= 2.540", and crimped with Lee FC.

[lreed]

Interesting posts.I personally would like to hear about the rifle and how you did the rimed case in a rimless feed Mauser.I have a .30-30 Mauser I put together,always interested in other peoples approach to the problems of doing so. Thanks lreed

[Texas by God]

Interesting posts.I personally would like to hear about the rifle and how you did the rimed case in a rimless feed Mauser.I have a .30-30 Mauser I put together,always interested in other peoples approach to the problems of doing so. Thanks lreed

It is still in The Barrel Works section of Gunsmithing under Barrel Nut for SR Mauser.
Basically I added a stop screw to the mag follower, faced the bolt out and modified the extractor for the 30-30 rim. The feed ramp needed polishing to get flat points to feed. It actually works well if you load three rounds only and stack the rims correctly.
Best, Thomas.

[bluelund79]

Great info on this post. Someday I'll get around to developing a load for my Savage 340 with cast. Red Dot seems like a good powder to use, thanks for sharing

[Texas by God]

Thanks to LeadPoison I have some of his pretty red&blue boolits. I'm ging to try his load in my Mauser and my Win 94.
I'll be back.

[fatelvis]

I've only loaded 2400 and 4759 in my 30-30s. I've got to try Red Dot. I'm impressed by the recorded group sizes and extreme spreads.

[Texas by God]

I've only loaded 2400 and 4759 in my 30-30s. I've got to try Red Dot. I'm impressed by the recorded group sizes and extreme spreads.

I think you'll like it just fine & a pound lasts Forever,

[fatelvis]

Rarely does "cheaper" and "better" go together in a sentence, but when they do, you've got to love it! LOL


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[res45]

I've been using Red Dot in the 30-30 for a number of years as a general purpose plinking load. My old Sav. 170 pump gun like 7.0 grs. with the Lee 170 gr. RNFP with two light coats of Alox/JPW lube once before and once after sizing with the gas check left off. I need to try some PC,ed an see how they do.

50 yds. with the iron sights
http://i.imgur.com/7wv4iJd.jpg

[Texas by God]

I had flyers with the 5 gr Red Dot load and the PC boolit;
27 grs IMR 3031 grouped an inch for two 3 shot groups.
This was in the 93 Spanish 30-30. When I'm done with these I'm going to scrub the barrel & try the Lee 150 fpgc with the RD load- not giving up on a fun accurate cheap load just yet.
Best, Thomas.

[jmort]

According to the data I linked, 5.5 grains of Red Dot and a 170 grain bullet is the sweet spot but 7 grains looked good as well

[Texas by God]

I'm trying something different today. I've loaded the Accurate 31-090B (95 grs sized to .309") over 5 grs of Red Dot with Rem 9-1/2M primers. Lee factory crimp. Shot two test loads last night and liked the sound and POI/POA impact. Maybe at dusk I'll try them in the 94win.

[Texas by God]

My old lever action put 5 shots in exactly 1" @ 25 yds. The report is mild. They feed just fine through the action. I seated them in the lower lube groove so they won't win any concentricity awards- but they'll head shoot a squirrel! They do impact quite low so the elevation slide on the 5D sight will need to come up. Happ Fathers Day continues!

[toallmy]

This looks like fun .

[Texas by God]

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[Low Budget Shooter]

Based on Harris article, I started using Red Dot for 30 cal rifle loads a few years ago. That 13 gr Red Dot load he recommends for 30.06 works great.

I was interested to read in the comments above about someone finding 4.6 grains Red Dot accurate in a variety of applications, because 4.5 grains Red Dot has so far given me better accuracy than anything else under 150-160 gr bullets in 38 Special case in my 357 Mag revolvers.

[JWFilips]

I shoot 90 % light rifle loads From 223 up to 358 winchester ( 223 rem, 243 Win,..30-30, 8mm x57 35 Rem, 357 win )
I usually use Red Dot or American Select ( More then always American Select) 4.5 grain to 8.4 grains in all calibers in all grain bullets.
It is amazing how 900 to 1100 fps works in all calibers...Extreame accuracy and you only need plain base boolits or gas checked boolits without checks!
I'm not hunting with these just killing paper
Jim

[GhostHawk]

l am not so sure that a lot of those loads would not be dang deadly in the woods. Granted at those speeds we are not talking over 150 yards. But that is still plenty of reach.

A 158 gr bullet moving 900 to 1100 fps is going to plow through stuff.
Seems like a lot of people get hooked on speed, think they need speed to kill. Not true.
Look at all the critters shot by black powder at 1100 to 1300 fps tops.

Big bullet, soft lead, slow speed holds the expansion down to a reasonable level and gives awesome penetration.

No I am not convinced that the .357 mag with 4.6 grains of Red Dot below a 158 gr round nose tl bullet would not kill a deer clean at reasonable ranges.

I think people get lazy, speed is easy. Speed means flat trajectory's with very little change needed in point of aim from 50 yards to beyond 250 yards.

I had my fling with it, worked fine for crows at 3-400 yards. Till the crows got smart and would no longer land within half a mile of my truck. They ain't dumb.

But being as I am old and low on energy and ambition it will likely take one of you younger fella's to prove me right or wrong.

Cast em out of range lead or at most 50/50 range lead/COWW 4.6 grains of Red Dot under a bullet big enough to fill the barrel. I always liked BLL for lube, or BLL with 2% carnuba wax added.

Get one of those loads in a .35 or bigger bore stacking bullets at 100. Then drop one of those slugs into the boiler of a nice deer. Tell me what happens please. Bet that deer does not take more than 3 steps.

[KenH]

Since the discussion has been on Red Dot powder in a 30-30 case, what do ya'' think of Red Dot (or Green Dot) in a 45-70 case for light loads of less than 1,000 fps? Just a decent plinking load?

[Texas by God]

Since the discussion has been on Red Dot powder in a 30-30 case, what do ya'' think of Red Dot (or Green Dot) in a 45-70 case for light loads of less than 1,000 fps? Just a decent plinking load?
I'll bet it will work. Time to break out the old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook!

[Texas by God]

I didn't find anything there. I'll bet one of our 4570 Shooters has an idea.

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[jmort]

45-70 Government 350gr FPbb
PR: WLR CM: Rem TempF: 52 OAL: 2.530"
PT PW Vel SD GS
RedDot 8.0 897 8.9 1.61
9.0 966 10.6 1.51
10.0 1034 10.4 2.3
11.0 1095 6.9 2.1
12.0 1160 12.2 1.58

[ohiomadman]

Since the discussion has been on Red Dot powder in a 30-30 case, what do ya'' think of Red Dot (or Green Dot) in a 45-70 case for light loads of less than 1,000 fps? Just a decent plinking load?

I use 10gr. of Red Dot with a 405gr boolit. Pretty accurate and still sub sonic.

[KenH]

Playing around with QuickLoad this morning and got the following results with a 45-70 loaded with the Lee .457-405-F cast bullet using each of the following powders with a charge to put final fps within ±1 fps in a 32" barrel.

Red Dot: 10.0 grains = 19,026 psi; 1084 fps
Green Dot: 10.5 grains = 17,743 psi; 1085 fps
Bullseye: 9.5 grains = 13,483psi; 1085 fps
Unique: 10.43 grains = 13,183 psi; 1085 fps

I think that shows why most folks tend to like Bullseye or Unique for light loads in 45-70 rather than Red or Green Dot powders. Get the same fps at a good bit lower chamber pressure. Not saying the "Dot" powders won't work, and might use some Green Dot myself since I've got 2 lb left over from shotshell reloading days.

Ken H>

[Eddie2002]

Haven't tried Red Dot yet but I've had great luck with Green Dot, BE86 and Bullseye for all my .30 caliber rifles when loading in the 5.5 to 7 grain range pushing 100 grain cast boolits. Been using the Lee dipper set for measurement and just a pinch of cotton to hold the load in the bottom of the case. Lots of fun out to 50 yds and I have found that neck tension really can make a difference if the case isn't crimped. Hoping to pick up a Marlin 30-30 next week and will put some Red Dot on the shopping list.

[Texas by God]

Jmort's link in post #6 tells the tale. 9 to 13 grs with a 405 gr bullet.
Have fun!

[TCLouis]

How about a new thread on 45-70 and Red Dot with light to heavy boolits.

[GhostHawk]

Don't have one of them. But my .444marlin single shot loves Red Dot. 6 grains under 220 gr .430 cast to 13 gr under the Lee 310 gr RCBS clone with gc.

They all shoot.

[Treetop]

Reading this thread the last few weeks piqued my interest in using Red Dot in my .30-30 Mossberg 464.

I found some 311291s already lubricated and gas checked but not sized, I used a .312 diameter die in my Lyman 450 to lube and apply the GC. I knew the GCs would be overkill but that was all I could find to load initially. Later I found some "as cast" 311291s which I tumble lubed with Lee Alox, so I loaded 2 batches of 10 each. Everything was identical except the method of boolit lubrication. Rem. once fired cases, CCI 200 primers, 5.0 gr. of recently purchased Red Dot.

At 25 yards, I first slow fired the 10 lubed and GCed cartridges from the front and rear sandbagged 464. The results were a disappointing group around 1 1/2-2 inches. All shots were called good.

However, the second batch of identical cartridges except the boolits were just tumble lubed, all 10 grouped into one ragged hole about 1 inch in diameter! What is going on here anyhow? Anyone else had similar results re: tumble lubed vs. GG lubed and GCed?Treetop

[Texas by God]

I decided I was using too much powder. These are fun and no ear plugs needed.
Soon I hope to try the accuracy.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171002/9630eb36cde0770b4f34de6e87521a09.jpg

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[scattershot]

Do you use a filler with that load? I found that it didn't make much difference, but with that light of a load, it might.

[Texas by God]

No filler used. The 5 gr charge under the same bullet worked great, I hope the light-er load does too.

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[Bill*B]

A Spanish Mauser in .30-30! Sounds sweet. Back in the day (Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd edition, 1980) Lyman listed Red Dot loads for the 169 grain 311291 and the 170 grain #31141, both with a starting load of 6.5 grains for about 1150 fps, and a MAX load of 8.5 grains for 34,500 cup pressure, and about 1350 fps. For the same bullets, the more recent 48th Handbook suggests 4227, with a starting load of 16 grains (around 1600 fps) and a MAX load of 22.0 grains (35,000 cup +, for 1950 fps). Now, these are gas check bullets. A gas check will cover a lot of sins, and makes it much easier to develop a pleasing load. Good luck! Have fun! The old .30 WCF is, in my not so humble opinion, the VERY BEST cast bullet rifle cartridge. Bill

[GhostHawk]

I have shot a fair amount of Red Dot in Rifle from 3 to 5 grains. No filler. Not needed IMO.

Light load with a slow powder, nother story.

[Kosh75287]

I've used RedDot/Promo in .223 for "gallery loads", and it worked quite well. I've also seen some phenomenal groups shot with Ed Harris's "the load", 13.0/RedDot/150gr. cast, in any number of military-caliber bolt actions in various calibers, and I am a believer. I'm not sure what it is about RedDot's formulation that makes it usable for reduced rifle loads in so many calibers, but it seems to be widely and well applied to the task, while many other propellants on either side of the burning-rate scale seem not to be.

[HangFireW8]

However, the second batch of identical cartridges except the boolits were just tumble lubed, all 10 grouped into one ragged hole about 1 inch in diameter! What is going on here anyhow? Anyone else had similar results re: tumble lubed vs. GG lubed and GCed?Treetop

Not sure what GG means, but I think I know what is going on here.

If all the lube stays on a boolit, or all of it is shed immediately on muzzle exit, the group will be smaller than if it some shed some lube, some more, some less, some from one side, and some from the other.

This was the concept behind Felix Lube, it was made to spin off the boolit immediately. On the other side of things, Lee Liquid Alox doesn't go anywhere. Since your low velocity boolits don't generate a bunch of RPM to efficiently spin off all the greasy lube, LLA is working better.

If you really want to explore accuracy, read all of Felix's posts, then try to figure out what he was really getting at. He knew more than all the verbacious pontificators here put together.