Hard cast PC'd 55 gr .223 with H335

[Dieselhorses]

I searched a bit in forums to find an answer and maybe I missed something. I started casting about some months back and probably will forever be experimenting. I have WW CF-1 .223/5.56 1:8 twist AR and want to shoot 55 gr hard lead (about 22 BH). I do powder coat twice. My question(s) is: Is resizing necessary? GC's? And can anyone tell me what the starting load would be using H335? Yes, I know there's a possibility of leading both barrel and gas tube.

[Efin]

I GC mine as well as PC, they are 62.5g with PC/check, I use IMG 4198, lite load at about 16g.
The Hodgdon scale I have shows H335 at 21.3 to 22.5 for a 55g pill, nothing actually shown for lead.

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[Dieselhorses]

OK well on to order gas checks. Do you mind telling me where you got your data from for the IMG 4198?

[autopilotmp]

I just loaded some Lee c225-55 boolits over 18, 18.5, 19, & 19.5 gn of H335 to work up an alternate load to my 19.5 gn of H4895. From what I've been able to find around here starting load of @ 18gn of these medium burning powders is where to start and working up from there.
I also have some Hodgdon varget that I am going to load with these same loads. I am using a 16" carbine gas length 1:8" bbl. Best load so far was H4895 @ 18.5gn with a .5gn tuft of polyester batting. Shot 2" @ 100yrs, and cycled the rifle.

[Dieselhorses]

Now we getting somewhere. I have the same length barrel, same twist and probably same Lee mold you are using (I have the 6 cavity w/gas check 55 gr). Are you using gc's?

[DrewSeeg]

I'm shooting the noe 62gr fn with GC powder coated (HF sprayed) out of a 1:9 16" dpms ...I loaded 19 - 23gr H335... Got the best groups around 2inches at 21 gr which ended up being around 2350 fps. I also tried 8208 xbr but was getting pressure signs earlier so stopped playing with it. My bullets drop big and I size to 226 after coating. Good luck

[autopilotmp]

I water drop coww, gc, and size/lube in my Lyman 45 (carnuba blue). I have run them with pc and gc and they shot well. Have not shot these without the gc. Yes same mold I am just using the two cavity version though. I did away with pc, weight sorting, and dacron filler because they were extra steps that I didn't need for plinking ammo

It all depends on how much work you are willing to do to get the best accuracy, you will find that good accuracy is at the point of just functioning the rifle. Then to dial it in like runfiverun says "you gotta look at each one like it owes you money" & weigh them down to the tenth of a grain. A little dacron filler with the loads on the fringe of function will help get a good complete burn.

19.5 grains of H4895 fully functions both my ar and my dad's mini14, and is accurate enough for what we do. Ymmv

[Dieselhorses]

Valuable info guys and TY! Just trying not to screw up my gas tube and end up with a weeks worth of cleaning out lead from bore. Experimentation comes with some effort. Ironically "DrewSeeg" 23 gr's of H335 works really good with the 55 gr FMJ's as I was getting quarter size groups at 50-60 yards (went to 23.5 and opened up). Back to the lead.....yeah I'm gonna land some checks first. Can anyone tell me what the ID of an AR check is? .223? .224?

[Lloyd Smale]

the bullets ive been fooling with are 55 grain. I cast the out of ww with about 2 percent tin. I size and at that time install gas checks. then I pc coat and bake. Let them cool coat them again, bake again and the water drop them. After that I run them back through the sizer and size to 225. I would probably recommend sizing them. Not for accuracy but to insure function in all of my ars. The load I use is 20 grains of wc844 which is real close to 335. I have a couple with pretty tight chambers so it just makes sense to size them. Is it all nessisary? I don't know. But it works.

[Dieselhorses]

Yes, I'm going to size mine despite a couple of YouTube fellows using their barrel on AR to size (yikes). So another dumb "?", after casting you "size" while installing GC's. If you use lube when sizing first doesn't this thwart the way the PC sticks? Something I always wondered...

[Lloyd Smale]

no lube. As a matter of fact I don't even use my star. I use an upside down c press with a lee die. I mount it upside down so I can put a piece of hose on the lee die to channel them into a can. If you use lube or even have a die that hasn't been cleaned out well it will effect your coating.

[autopilotmp]

When I pc my Boolits I pc first then size/check. But I also did not water drop after pc didn't figure with pc I needed to. The few that I did size first I swished around in some acetone before pc.

[Lloyd Smale]

if your shooting them at factory ammo levels theres more to consider then the coating is stopping leading. At those pressures about any bullet not water dropped will deform in the barrel or strip through the rifling and its doubtful your going to get any kind of accuracy. Especially at long range.
When I pc my Boolits I pc first then size/check. But I also did not water drop after pc didn't figure with pc I needed to. The few that I did size first I swished around in some acetone before pc.

[autopilotmp]

if your shooting them at factory ammo levels theres more to consider then the coating is stopping leading. At those pressures about any bullet not water dropped will deform in the barrel or strip through the rifling and its doubtful your going to get any kind of accuracy. Especially at long range.

Yes this is probably true and on that subject I have no experience as I am still learning. This is my first venture into rifle cast boolits so have been working at the lower velocity levels to keep things simple. I am absolutely taking notes when it comes to full power loads, may one day decide to take on the challenge of pushing them faster. But for that I will need to pick up a mold for heavier boolit as my 1:8 twist and the current 55gn boolit probably won't be accurate.

[Lloyd Smale]

your 1-8 twist will do fine with 55s at full power.

[mjkonopka]

Is it possible to just PC and not gas check them?

[stubshaft]

Only if you can insure the base does not project past the boolit shoulder.

[Lloyd Smale]

if they are crimped on checks which most brand named ones are it doesn't hurt a thing to seat the bullet with the base down deeper then the neck
Only if you can insure the base does not project past the boolit shoulder.

[gpidaho]

Like LLoyd, I use the Lee size dies for sizing and gas check seating and do PC. If for some reason your cast bullets aren't sizing as easily as you would like, just use a little Dawn dishsoap mixed with a small amount of water to lube the bullets. It rinses right off. Make sure the bullets are dry and rerun to seat the checks or seat the checks after PCing if the check shank allows. Any moisture under the gas check will cause steam and pop the checks off when baking. Sounds like popcorn. lol Don't ask how I know. Gp

[BlaineD]

Is it possible to just PC and not gas check them?

Just ran a bunch today with no gc's. 2350 fps with W748. No leading so far, but only been 40 rounds.


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[Motor]

I'm working with the Lee 55gr RF. I'm using HF red PC. So far I haven't shot anything hotter than 19gr H-4895.

This boolit relies on the gas check for rear bearing surface. Without the gas check there is only a small band of bearing surface in the middle of the body. I tried some without gas checks and the groups were about 20" at 50 yards. Shooting them without gas checks did not cause any problems whatsoever with the rifle. There was no fouling at all they just simply don't shoot accurately.

I'm thinking about removing the gas check diameter from the mould making it a non-check design. The PC has no problems with loads in this range.

I'm shooting a 16" 1-9 twist. Up until today 18gr H-4895 was my most accurate load with checks of course but today I tried 17gr and 17.5gr and the 17.5gr looks like it may be best. But even it isn't anything to brag about.

It all seems like a lot of work just to make a cast shooting 2000fps semiautomatic rifle that has mediocre accuracy. But hey, it's all just for fun. Right?

Motor

[WickedColt]

So for 223, if you PC them (with no gas check), there is no leading, just worry about accuracy? I've been getting everything I need to PC for my 300 Blk for the upper I built but my original came with a 5.56 upper so this is relevant to my interests. I am going to have to buy a 22 cal mold now. Man, dollars add up quickly with this hobby haha!! There are so many facets to this that I am going to be learning things for a long time...actually, scratch that, learning forever!! :) Thanks for the great info!

[Sghinds]

I ran some this past weekend with and without gas checks and Winchester 748 and did not see any major difference in accuracy at 100 yards. 19 gr of 748 gave me about 2 1/2 in group, but going to drop the charge to see if I can get it to tighten up some. I went up to 23gr and accuracy got worse, probably about 6-8 inch groups at 100 yards. All cycled fine, so I think I will do some testing with 17-19gr to see if groups tighten up and still cycle.

Mold is the Lee 225-55 6 cavity, PC and sized to .225 in Lee push through sizer.

193999

[BlaineD]

I'm getting 3"-4" groups at 50 yards with 23gr of 748. 2350fps, cycle good. I'm going to try and back it down and hope it tightens up as well.


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[fishbait86]

On the same note as this. Can anyone tell me what my oal should be with these cast 55gr boolits?

[Master Samwise]

I'm getting 3"-4" groups at 50 yards with 23gr of 748. 2350fps, cycle good. I'm going to try and back it down and hope it tightens up as well.

Glad I found this, I'd had a damned'able time trying to get Lee 55's to print worth a S#!t. I even sold the mold I had, I was so frustrated, but I had a couple hundred checked and PC'ed stored. Every load I tried it printed like a shotgun at 10 yards.
with the shortage of ammo and components I wanted to finally see if I could get Cast 223 to fly straight. So I looked, and I ran across these loads.

I was able to load up 23.5 to 24.0gr of 748 under the Lee 55 GC PP and NOE 65 GC and PP. The 65's were all over the place but the 55's did real well, including hitting steel at 300 yards.
The 65's were all over the place, paper plate at 10 yards. I bet if I reduce the charge a little, I can improve it.


I also have a 75 grain mold coming in to try, and Miha has a group buy going on for a 65 and a 75. I'll get some loaded and report back.

I think I'll try a two cavity Lee 55, so I can modify it to Flat base. If it works, I'll pick up another 6 cavity and modify it.

~Samwise~

[BlaineD]

Glad I found this, I'd had a damned'able time trying to get Lee 55's to print worth a S#!t. I even sold the mold I had, I was so frustrated, but I had a couple hundred checked and PC'ed stored. Every load I tried it printed like a shotgun at 10 yards.
with the shortage of ammo and components I wanted to finally see if I could get Cast 223 to fly straight. So I looked, and I ran across these loads.

I was able to load up 23.5 to 24.0gr of 748 under the Lee 55 GC PP and NOE 65 GC and PP. The 65's were all over the place but the 55's did real well, including hitting steel at 300 yards.
The 65's were all over the place, paper plate at 10 yards. I bet if I reduce the charge a little, I can improve it.


I also have a 75 grain mold coming in to try, and Miha has a group buy going on for a 65 and a 75. I'll get some loaded and report back.

I think I'll try a two cavity Lee 55, so I can modify it to Flat base. If it works, I'll pick up another 6 cavity and modify it.

~Samwise~

Any updates?


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