Next Step

[Smk SHoe]

Been casting for a few years and lately ( last year or so), gotten really involved. Have a few NOE molds along with a couple Arsenal and a bunch of Lee and RCBS. Well, I need to move from shooting range recovered lead ( Mostly bought from Evilbay) that I am not sure of hardness to a more caliber correct mix. I picked up 4 ingots of Rotometal 30% ant / 70% PB along with a pound of tin. I know I have a lot of playing around to do, but the big question is, How much 30/70 to add to, lets say 15lbs of range lead, to raise it one Brinell point. Are we talking small amounts to change or large amounts of 30/70. Just trying to get a good starting point. Don't want to waste 30/70 by putting a lot in the mix for little gain but also don't want to not make any gains by not using enough. Mostly looking for a starting point to, well, start. ( hardness tester is on the wish list)

I think most of my bullets are to soft now, thats what got me thinking I needed to step up my game and get more serious with the casting.

[Ed_Shot]

What caliber weapon(s) are we talking about? Why do you think most of your boolits are too soft now?

[Smk SHoe]

Everything now is pistol (9mm and 45) and some 300 blackout. All plinking stuff. the 158 grain .358 I cast for my neighbor i can squish with a set of linesman pliers. Everything shoots fine and has no issues, but I need to be sure of what I'm casting and not just what some Knucklehead on Evilbay say it is. Just hoping it's right isn't working anymore. Do want to stretch my legs out and cast some steel plate ringers in .30 cal ( neighbors 300WSM) and my 6.5X47 laupa. Mostly for the trigger time and bragging rights.

[country gent]

What calibers, What velocity ranges, and What uses ( hunting plinking target)? More information would be helpful. Bullets fit in a given barrel is very important to performance. Lube is also a big factor in performance.

[RogerDat]

Alloy Calculator!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?105952-Lead-alloy-calculators

You need Excel from Microsoft or Open Office Calc which is a free download to use the alloy calculator but plug in weights for each type of ingredient and at the bottom see the final ratio of Sn, Sb, and Pb along with approx. BHN of that mix.

Adjusting an ingredient changes the results on the bottom, so you can enter your basic ingredient (say range lead in your case) and then adjust the premium alloys with small increases or decreases to get the alloy and hardness you desire.

Did I mention Open Office is free and available for Windows, Mac, and Linux https://www.openoffice.org/download/index.html from the apache foundation, the folks that developed the web server software that over half the web sites in the world run on.

[Reddirt62]

Since reading in here I believe most of mine are too hard!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Smk SHoe]

Mostly looking for how much of X changes how much of Y. Most pistol works fine with range lead with a little tin added for fill out. But if you took 15 lbs of range lead and added 1 lb of 30/70, how much would it change the hardness? 1/2 a point - 1 full point.
And at what point do it become non benificial, if you added 5 lbs of 30/70 to 15 lbs of range lead would it raise it 5 times what 1 lb added or does it hit a plateau at a certain level and then you are justing wasting antimony.

[Smk SHoe]

I am really just trying to work thru the mixing process. I know antimony adds hardness to lead while tin helps with fill out during casting. Are these big windows ( where it takes a lot of metal to move the numbers ) or do small amounts make drastic changes. I know guys mix their alloys in large batches to keep uniformity, but would small variations change that much?

[C. Latch]

But if you took 15 lbs of range lead and added 1 lb of 30/70,

You're adding 2% antimony (and slightly reducing your tin) to range lead. Expect a hardness increase of around 1.8 BHN points, according to the alloy calculators I've seen.

The real question is, do you NEED that?

You could also water-drop to get harder bullets.

[Ateam]

Use the alloy calculator Roger posted. It will tell you what you want to know without any guessing. It also sounds like you are trying to fix a non existent problem, if it shoots, is accurate, and doesn't led the barrel, then why go and change things?

[mold maker]

I spent over 30 years chasing the best alloy and found they all sorta worked. Back then there was no internet or forum and I didn't know another caster. Little was written in my world about bullet fit, and lube was either something you bought or a concoction you made behind the shed.
Thanks to this group and others I have found a better way of doing almost everything related.
Along the way, I acquired a Saeco, Lee, and cabintree tester. I actually used the Cabintree until I found that hardness was a boogie man everyone chased for naught. Most all bullets cast and sold are harder than necessary. Truth is, fit really is king and lube can be simply a toss in a can with BLL#1 or 2. For everything but the most demanding application, a 96-2-2 alloy will suffice.

[Smk SHoe]

Your question is 100% correct.
I am not sure if I need it ( I kinda don't think I do), but trying to nail down the knowledge to make a informed guess vs a WAG ( wild *** guess).
I think next casting session I'll add about a half pound of the 30/70 mix to the pot and cast away. Give myself a little comparison from last bullets I cast and the new ones. Maybe it will be a great revaluation or more than likely a " i don't see a difference"

[Smk SHoe]

Use the alloy calculator Roger posted. It will tell you what you want to know without any guessing. It also sounds like you are trying to fix a non existent problem, if it shoots, is accurate, and doesn't led the barrel, then why go and change things?
I do believe it is a non existent problem right now, but acquiring the knowledge for later if needed. Would like to be able to cast harder bullets when the need arises with already tried knowledge

[runfiverun]

I'm real scientific about my alloy.
I air cool for pistol stuff and water drop for my rifles.
this gives about 11 bhn for the air and about 18 for the water.
your range scrap is probably a 10 bhn and would maybe cast a little better with some tin.

but for harder a bucket of water would get you to about 16-17 and costs pretty much nothing.
oven treating should get you up near 22 or so easy enough. [probably more without the tin addition] or could get you just a few more bhn and do it consistently by adjusting the soak temperature or by drawing down an older batch.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I THINK A 5LB BLOCK WOULD MAKE 80LBS OF LEAD (PURE) ABOUT 3%, OR EVEN MORE USING RANGE LEAD SINCE IT PROBABLY ALREADY HAS 2-3%SB ALREADY, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG. oops, sorry bout the caps

[GrayTech]

I am really just trying to work thru the mixing process. I know antimony adds hardness to lead while tin helps with fill out during casting. Are these big windows ( where it takes a lot of metal to move the numbers ) or do small amounts make drastic changes. I know guys mix their alloys in large batches to keep uniformity, but would small variations change that much?

Antimony (Sb) increases hardness and contributes hardenability by quenching after casting, or heat treatment (baking & quenching) and maxes out effect at about 3℅ I think. Trace amounts of arsenic (As) also contribute to heat treat-ability of Pb/Sn/Sb alloys.

Your alloy composition is dependant on your intended application, desired expansion, muzzle velocity, etc.
I think heat treatment is the way to go rather than using high Sb content to raise hardness.
I have found lead alloy of equal quantity Sn/Sb (3℅ each) to work well for most rifle applications and it can be hardened by quenching at cast (18 BHN), or heat treatment within a pretty wide range of BHN reaching into the high 20s.

[RogerDat]

Quick check of numbers in alloy calculator:


15# of range lead + 1/2 lb 30% tin solder = 1.13% Sn and ~.97 Sb with BHN of 9.8 air cooled.
15# of range lead + 1# 30% tin solder = 2.03% Sn and ~.94 Sb with BHN of 10.1 air cooled


Toss in 2# of COWW's and you would push the Sb up above 1% and have the Sn still at 1.86% Only gain tiny amount of BHN at 10.2 but it might be more reactive for water dropping or heat treating. It also happens to be the BHN of the popular 50/50 alloy of COWW/Pb + 1.4% Sn

But knowing what you have is not nearly as important as knowing what works. If you get good results from your range scrap and a little solder why do anything else?