Mod 94AE light primer strikes

[T-Bird]

After about 600 rnds of flawless shooting, my mod 94ae 38/55 JES rebore began to misfire suddenly about 2 wks ago. I took it to my gunsmith, me dismantled it removed the firing pin, inspected and cleaned the bolt with brake cleaner said all looked ok. I had forgotten the bring ammo so he couldn't examine it, but suggested I check it for thinned case heads causing excessive headspace. I did this with a dial caliper, can't tell any difference between my 3x shot brass and new brass in thickness of the rims. He also suggested I try Winchester primers since they are softer then the CCI I was using. I have done this as well, nothing's worked. I recently began priming on my new Lee Classic Turret so I thought I might be seating the primers too deep- tried not seating so hard- no help. Any Ideas? Gunsmith says he's lost.

[Griff]

More info needed: is it a complete failure to fire, or intermittent? What trigger/lock group? Half cock notch? Rebounding hammer? XBolt safety or tang safety?

1. Unload gun. Close action, and carefully examine all mating surfaces. Is the link all the way up? With the lever fully up, (trigger block up), is the extracort fully in the groove and bolt mating up with breech, no gaps, etc.? Is the locking lug all the way up? With the hammer down, are there any scratches or drag marks on the sides? With the hammer back, any scratches or marks inside the hammer slot on the bolt? Again, with the hammer back, push on the firing pin extension, move freely, with just spring tension?

2. Unload gun. Stand on butt, (the rifle, not you :D ), put a lightweight wood dowel down bbl, long enough so some sticks out. Cock hammer, pull trigger, does dowel jump? If yes, do it again, but this time hold your finger over the exposed end. Remove dowel, is there a dent in the other end?

Report findings. Cause from here on, it's disassembly time.

[GhostHawk]

Well I personally prime everything with a RCBS Universal hand tool. Feel is excellent and to get them too deep would take more strength than I have.


Have you checked firing pin protrusion? Probably hard to do on a lever action huh.
Pretty easy on single shots.

It is possible the pin just wore enough that it is giving light strikes. If it is not that you might check hammer spring strength. If it is getting weak it might not be hitting it hard enough.

You are sure that the safety is off?

[T-Bird]

Late '80's mod, rebounding hammer is safety. Thought about firing pin wear, but I don't know how long it's supposed to be. It does protrude thru the hole when the gun is tipped muzzle down.It does fire about half the time. Those strikes are deeper- I assumed from recoil of the round.

[T-Bird]

Taking it back to the smith today he said he would look at it again.

[Griff]

Taking it back to the smith today he said he would look at it again.Rebounding hammers are known for developing light primer strikes. Either print it to take to your gunsmith, or study it well enough that you can describe what is need to to improve the hammer force. (I suggest the former). http://www.time-slice.com/mohave.gambler/favorites/LeverGuns/Winchester94.htm

there's another trick to improving the hammer strike, and that is to shorten the lower leg on the hammer strut... but the best fix is to use the late top eject hammer strut. This is one from serial number 4,580,000 to about 5,000,000. These are scarce... so the shortening of the leg is the best bet.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Perhaps if you convert the rebounding hammer to a standard hammer, covered in other threads, you will solve the problem.

Change out the hammer spring for a new one.

I'm at a bit of a loss concerning the conversation about primer seating depth. I've always thought it a good idea to seat the primer completely to the bottom of the pocket. The primer needs the resistance of being crushed against the bottom of the pocket to fire reliably. Otherwise some of the force behind the firing pin is used in pushing the primer down to the point at which it meets that resistance.

[robg]

Has the hammer spring been shortened to lighten trigger pull ?seat the primers as far in as they will go.firing pin should slide back and fore with no resistance .hope you solve the problem.

[T-Bird]

Hammer spring has't been touched by me. Got the gun from my dad in the '90's be had bought it from someone that I doubt touched it since I was fairly new then. commented about the primers only because the problem surfaced about the time I started using the Lee Turret Press and I used to hand prime. I wondered if it was possible that they were being seated too deep by the increased force of the press. I too thought that primers were to be "bottomed out" but I was just trying to think of everything.

[pietro]

commented about the primers only because the problem surfaced about the time I started using the Lee Turret Press and I used to hand prime.

I wondered if it was possible that they were being seated too deep by the increased force of the press. [





The FP should still be able to ignite the primers, provided that the hammer impact isn't being lessened.




In a rebounding hammer action, there are two things that can retard hammer fall, resulting in light strikes.

1) The top (driving) leg of the forward end of the mainspring strut has worn or bent over the years of shooting, effectively shortening it microscopically, but enough to deliver a less than full power hammer impact.

The E-Z fix, as stated above, is to slightly shorten the lower (rebound) leg of the MS strut, so that it begins it's rebounding action a bit later than it does now.



2) The mainspring can lose a bit of tension/power.

The E-Z (read: less expensive) fix is to install a shim washer on the MS strut, at the rear end of the MS, or (better yet) install a new MS.


.

[T-Bird]

Makes sense pietro, is back with the smith now.

[T-Bird]

You know what Griff? I'm a veterinarian, people bring me stuff off the net all the time " for my education". It's NEVER helpful. I'm not a gunsmith, but I hesitate to send him something that he probably knows or doesn't apply to my specific prob.

[Griff]

You know what Griff? I'm a veterinarian, people bring me stuff off the net all the time " for my education". It's NEVER helpful. I'm not a gunsmith, but I hesitate to send him something that he probably knows or doesn't apply to my specific prob.I understand. I've seen a huge variance in the experience and knowledge in gunsmiths. Far more don't have a clue about leverguns than do. I assume nothing. Don't discount what's out on the internet, just because most of it's garbage. There can be some very useful tidbits hanging around, here 'n' there.

I'm not a gunsmith either... but I've had to learn to work on my mdl 94s Winchesters, because after spending good money to have something fixed... It wasn't. Took it to another 'smith... same deal. At least the 3rd said he didn't know squat 'bout Winchester 94s... but loaned me a book, and offered to help me on his own time... after I'd read the book and at least knew how to disassemble & reassemble it on my own. (He was our departmental gunsmith... didn't have to do that, but... a friend to this day). That was the first of several books on the 94 I've read.

Good luck.

[OverMax]

My suggestion. Change out the hammer spring T-Bird.