too much neck?

[EScott]

Is this a normal amount of neck and throat for a Winchester 94 30-30? I measure 0.225 inches from front of casing to end of throat?

191252

[RickinTN]

Most of my 30-30 experience is with Marlin throats and such but I do have a little with Winchester chambers. Your throat is quite long as compared to the Marlins I have encountered but is very similar to my one Winchester chamber. It looks like your rifle would be a good candidate for the Ranch Dog 165 gr. bullet. I think I'm correct that Lee no longer offers this mold but that NOE does produce it from time to time and may have it available. Maybe someone with more Winchester chamber experience will chime in.
Take care,
Rick

I might ad that if the case shown in your picture is anywhere near normal length you will probably never have to worry about trimming cases.

[barrabruce]

Mine's like that in a different rifle thou.
My oa case length is something like 2.120" I'll have to check.
Iv'e used some Starline 38-55 long resized and trimmed for my "special cases" which I use for paper patching althou they could be a little thin for my liking.
The 50 I got was hard enough to get here in OZ

I believe ww bigbore cases are supposed to be better if you can get them.

That said I have had reasonable success with The lee 170 fp
308466 loverin
308241 ideal pb 150 rn
PP'd bullets to fired case neck size would work too with a compressed powder charge.
I found if I can get the nose to engrave and the drive bands on the throats leade it will shoot ok with short normal cases loaded out.
Don't know how they would cycle in a lever thou.

Hope it helps

[Griff]

Is this a normal amount of neck and throat for a Winchester 94 30-30? I measure 0.225 inches from front of casing to end of throat?

191252No. Off-hand I would say that's a collapsed case... caused by a maladjusted seating/crimp die, or untrimmed case. Pull bullet, dump powder,, relube case, resize, check sized case length, trim as necessary, chamfer case mouth, refill with appropriate amount and type powder, then carefully seat bullet to a few thousands shy of the crimp groove, back off seating stem, adjust die body so that the case mouth is just at the crimp ledge, screw seating stem back in, to it contacts the bullet nose and pushes the ram down that same few thousands, then push handle down, seating/crimping in one smooth motion.

I highly recommend that one uses a "dummy" case (no powder or primer), to adjust dies, keeping the completed dummy with the die set for any future adjustments.

Here's my tutorial on adjusting seating/crimp dies: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment - Updated (http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2809&p=33483&hilit=seating+crimp+adjustments#p33483).

[Griff]

Is this a normal amount of neck and throat for a Winchester 94 30-30? I measure 0.225 inches from front of casing to end of throat?

191252In rereading your post, I may have answered the "wrong" question. ;) :?: I don't have any of my reloads with me, but... I would say that front driving band looks a tad long. More importantly, did the case collapse during chambering, vs. seating as I previously assumed? If yes, then I have to say a qualified "yes". What diameter is it? A chamber cast will give you a definitive answer. My most accurate boolit in my Winchesters is a Saeco 316. A 150gr GCFN mold. Even this relatively short bullet engages the rifling in a couple of my Winchesters.
191321
As can be seen by the bright smear just in front of the driving band. In looking at an enlarged version of your attachment, it looks like you got about ½ the bullet into the lands before friction stopped it and the case collapsed, correct? My conclusion would be that this isn't an appropriate boolit for your .30-30. Certainly not in that alloy and loaded that long. In looking at it, I would wonder if it even cycles thru a 94's action?

[Harter66]

I might be off a little but that looks like a pound cast and I would say that the brass is a little short or the neck cut long .
I have a couple of Colts chambers that are 1.315 vs 1.285 SAMMI drawing .

Your brass there isn't Hornady LevEvolution is it ?

[OverMax]

I side with Griff. Shoulder does appear to be collapsed some.

[EScott]

Thanks all
It is a pound cast of the chamber and the case is full of lead so I doubt the shoulder has collapsed. The brass is Remington and is normal length. My issue is that I think it will take a custom mould to get a bullet in the neck and still function in the action. Does anybody have a Win 94 with a similar issue and what did you do about it?

[Harter66]

As a long shot , there appears to not be a basic case for the 30-30 family , get a few 38-55 cases or start with 32 WS . See if you can grow the brass some to get it to fill up the chamber . The 38-55 only starts out .005 longer than the 30-30 . With the added taper of the 30-30 body it might get you .1 .
My thinking would be to use a common 35 cal carbide die after a trip through a 35 Remington or 358 sizer die then use the carbide 9mm/38/357 die to get a longer neck then a 32 WS die and a 30-30 FL . This is just me thinking about what you need to have in that chamber for case length and what I have or have had on the bench . The simple 35 Remington , 32 WS , 30-30 might be enough 32 Win Special to 30-30 might be enough .

The hard option is to take it to a good gun smith and have the bbl set back and not have to mess with the brass length and other dies to make proper brass for this particular chamber .

[Griff]

Thanks all
It is a pound cast of the chamber and the case is full of lead so I doubt the shoulder has collapsed. The brass is Remington and is normal length. My issue is that I think it will take a custom mould to get a bullet in the neck and still function in the action. Does anybody have a Win 94 with a similar issue and what did you do about it?It certainly appears to be collapsed. Lead is malleable, not as much as air... but still capable of being deformed. Here's the SAMMI specs on the .30-30. Get out your dial calipers and measure away.
191351

It may just be an optical illusion, but that shoulder looks far too sharp and its angle appears too steep. Bite the bullet, get some Cerrosafe and make a chamber cast. For a pound cast, you need to use dead soft lead that deforms easily against the steel, but not so hard that can deform your brass., . What alloy were you using here? What mold are you trying to make work in the .30-30?

I have 24 Winchester 94s in .30-30, from 1898 to 1979, chamber dimensions vary, but... very little. I load & shoot lots of .30-30, and if you'll forgive a little soapboxin', embrace it what it is, not for what you want it to be. Even 190gr boolits need a little massaging to go thru the 94's action.

[Harter66]

I would make the presumption that EScott took a measurement from head to the end of the "neck" as seen on seeing the difference . Just in case the lead swallowed the mouth or something bizzar . For the record that is just about what the shoulder looks like in my 1949 chamber when there is nothing for scale .

[popper]

Yes you need a boolit that is sized to fit that space and will fit the throat/bore. Also need the nose that fits without jamming the lands. My BO is about the same, drive band in the 'freebore' nose not jamming. Shoots great. Kinda do the same for my Marlin with modified RD.

[RickinTN]

Don't worry about the throat/chamber length for right now. As mentioned earlier it is similar to my one Winchester 94 30-30 throat. Load a few up with your cast bullet of choice and give it a try. My Winchester is one of my most forgiving 30-30's and will shoot reasonably well most any bullet I feed it. My first choice for powder charge would be IMR4227 in the 15 to 16 grain range with most any 150 to 170gr bullet although many powders would work. Seat them to 2.550". The original Ranch Dog 165gr RF bullet does a good job of dealing with chambers/throats such as yours.
Good Luck,
Rick

[OverMax]

ID the manufacture of your boolit mold and its cast weight for us please? Knowing that bit of info may help others including myself firm up a more plausible reply to your question/s.

[RickinTN]

Guys that's a throat cast. There was no bullet seated and there is no bullet, it's a cast!
Rick

[OverMax]

That's what I thought I read but wasn't sure. (a Throat cast of all things ) Thanks Rick

[QUOTEs this a normal amount of neck and throat for a Winchester 94 30-30? QUOTE]

I don't know of anyone who measures the same way as the OP stated. (mouth of brass to flat of cast for _0.225 for OAL of throat?)

My 30-30 win is a pre-64 model that measures 2.591 OAL with a bullet seated. Of which includes measuring its chamber~ throat & forcing cone ~ with its bullet nose barely touching the barrels rifling.
As far as I know Throat is lathed at the time of a barrels breech machining. I would assume such breech machining's are repetitive CNC or old school technology either/both ways I do believe are held to minimum tolerance.

That's all I have to offer EScott.

[barrabruce]

Is this a normal amount of neck and throat for a Winchester 94 30-30? I measure 0.225 inches from front of casing to end of throat?

191252
If the length from base of cartridge to the end of the chamber is actually longer than normal then you have a section of 0.330" free bore before the nice sharp ball seat.
A long body bullet and short nose bullet may be your friend here as you can seat them out to the lands and in the throat and keep your overall length shorter.