can this conversion be done?

[mozeppa]

i bought a new Rock Island 1911 ...on the .22TCM caliber.

this is a hot fast moving high pressure round. (can do north of 2500 FPS.)

they also give you a 9mm barrel and slide return spring so that you can also shoot 9mm ammo thru it.

now for the rub.....the 22 tcm cartridge is a wildcat round based on the .223 rifle cartridge as the parent
shell case. they cut the case down and re-form the neck to .22 caliber ...the finished cartridges are loaded into a .38 super magazine.

it works fine as a .22TCM because the cartridge overall length is 1.265" and you must use the .38 super magazine....however you also must use the same magazine to shoot 9mm ammo and their overall length is 1.150" that's about .115" shorter... and what happens? stove pipes!

now it seems to me that the better conversion choice might have been .22TCM and .38 super...BUT!
.38 super has a very small rim..... so......the .38 super cartridge case won't butt up on the slide like it's supposed to in order to go into full battery....is it possible i could turn the rims off in a lathe?

so...i was thinking, since the .22TCM is based on the .223 case...why not use a .223 case...cut it down to .38 super length, get a .38 super barrel add a spring ....work up loads for it.

to my thinking having the 2 calibers very close to the same overall length should help eliminate stove piping.

or should i use a 147 grain boolit and seat it out to 1.265" and work up loads for it that way?

[bob208]

have you tried a 9m/m mag?

[mozeppa]

have you tried a 9m/m mag?
you cannot use a 9mm mag in a .22TCM

[Mytmousemalibu]

Just get some .38 Super Comp, its the rimless version of .38 Super. Its still a pretty popular caliber in USPSA Open Division. I have a few piece i picked up off the ranges but my open gun is 9mm so if you want a few to play with, I can donate some to you. You can also seat your 9mm out longer. I run my 9mm Major power factor loads between 1.150 out to 1.200 OAL. As long as it fits your magazines and still chambers, you are good.

[NavyVet1959]

I have one of the RIA M1911 .22TCM / 9mm combos like you are talking about. I've added a .38 SUPER barrel to it. I've even fired 9mm in the .38 SUPER barrel. For hot loads, I make my ".38 SUPER" brass out of .223 and since I'm loading it to 9x23 pressure, what I've been informed that what I've basically created is the 9mm Super Cooper.

Guns & Ammo -- Page 1 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-1.jpg)
Guns & Ammo -- Page 2 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-2.jpg)
Guns & Ammo -- Page 3 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-3.jpg)
Guns & Ammo -- Page 4 (http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/9mm-super-cooper-4.jpg)

It is possible to fit a full size M1911 barrel in the mid-size RIA M1911 frame, but it requires a bit of filing to remove the ramped portion in front of where the connector attaches.

With my conversion though, one thing that I noticed is that the 105 gr SWC Lee mold does not feed well, but the 124 gr TC mold works a lot better.

[NavyVet1959]

you cannot use a 9mm mag in a .22TCM

The RIA .22TCM/9mm uses the .38 SUPER mags made by Mec-gar. Same magazine is used for both .22TCM and 9mm. It's a full size magazine, so it can handle the OAL of .38 SUPER or 9x23.

[Mk42gunner]

I believe what bob208 was suggesting was to use a 9mm magazine for 9mm rounds, not the .22TCM. It would cure the feeding isssues when shooting 9mm from the gun.

Robert

[mozeppa]

I believe what bob208 was suggesting was to use a 9mm magazine for 9mm rounds, not the .22TCM. It would cure the feeding isssues when shooting 9mm from the gun.

Robert

I know that is what he meant....but the fact is a 9mm mag does not fill the slot that a .38 super mag. does.

.38 super is about 1/4" wider than the 9mm magazine.

[mozeppa]

thanks navy vet!

now to get some .223 brass ...a barrel...a chop saw....some skills....

[Texas by God]

Seating the 9mm bullets out farther won't work why? I had a 7.62 Tok with an extra 9mm barrel and it worked for me. Best,Thomas.

[Mk42gunner]

I know that is what he meant....but the fact is a 9mm mag does not fill the slot that a .38 super mag. does.

.38 super is about 1/4" wider than the 9mm magazine.
I was thinking it was a single stack 1911, in which case they do make 9mm mags that fit. Double stack, I'm not sure.

Robert

[NavyVet1959]

Seating the 9mm bullets out farther won't work why? I had a 7.62 Tok with an extra 9mm barrel and it worked for me. Best,Thomas.

If you are using a light bullet, seating the bullet in a 9x19 case at the OAL for .38 SUPER or 9x23, you just don't end up with enough lead in the brass to hold it adequately.

This is a photo of the Lee 358-105-SWC loaded to the SAAMI max OAL for 9x19. It's just barely in the case. If you tried loading it to the max OAL for 9x23 / .38 SUPER, it wouldn't even be *touching* the case.

http://images.spambob.net/navy-vet-1959/lee-358-105-swc-loaded-saami-max-oal-9mm-320w.jpg

[Texas by God]

True Navy Vet. I used 124 gr in mine. I should have said that.

[KYCaster]

thanks navy vet!

now to get some .223 brass ...a barrel...a chop saw....some skills....


Seems to me 38 Super Comp would be a much easier solution than chopping, sizing, trimming, reaming, annealing 223 to end up with the same case.

Or 38 TJ, or 9X23. Starline offers all of them. Don't be concerned about the strength of the Starline cases, they're +P rated, even though the headstamp doesn't say so.

Jerry

[NavyVet1959]

Seems to me 38 Super Comp would be a much easier solution than chopping, sizing, trimming, reaming, annealing 223 to end up with the same case.

Or 38 TJ, or 9X23. Starline offers all of them. Don't be concerned about the strength of the Starline cases, they're +P rated, even though the headstamp doesn't say so.

Jerry

I figure .223 until the neck splits... Then convert to .300 AAC until the neck splits... Then convert to either .38 Super Cooper or .22 TCM...

[GoodOlBoy]

FYI stovepipes are not caused by overall bullet length they are caused by limp wrist-ing a low pressure/recoil round in a 1911 with a milspec or heavier recoil spring...

Just a note.

God Bless, and One Love.

GoodOlBoy

[Multigunner]

Heres a suggestion that may not work.
Get a follower and spring made for a 9mm magazine of the same general type as the mag you have and install those parts along with a spacer block in the magazine or a spare magazine that fits the frame.

Wasn't the rimless version of the 38 Super Auto a development of the Army Marksmanship Unit?
They created several wildcat cartridges and chambered pistols for them trying to come up with the best combination of features for competition shooting.

[Green Frog]

Heres a suggestion that may not work.
Get a follower and spring made for a 9mm magazine of the same general type as the mag you have and install those parts along with a spacer block in the magazine or a spare magazine that fits the frame.

Wasn't the rimless version of the 38 Super Auto a development of the Army Marksmanship Unit?
They created several wildcat cartridges and chambered pistols for them trying to come up with the best combination of features for competition shooting.

You may be thinking of the 38 AMU. It was a rimless 38 Special round used until they figured out how to get MRWC rounds to feed reliably in the Colt National Match and the S&W Model 52.

Froggie