1938 Turk Mauser

[Junior1942]

Buckshot, I ordered two 38 Turks from J G Sales. Total w/shipping was $139.10.

Question: I want to put a scout scope on them. I don't want to pay for hole drilling. Reckon there's a scope mount I could solder in place of the factory rear sight? I'm wanting to do the 38 Mauser exactly like the 93 Mauser of mine shown below.

http://www.castbullet.com/misc/photos/m9303.jpg

[StarMetal]

Junior,

One time I needed scope mount base that I could mig weld on a gun. I looked high and low and the only place I found on made of steel was from Brownells gunsmithing tools and parts. It was a Weaver type base plain, meaning it didn't have the cross slots in it even, but it was steel, most of them are aluminum. It was about 10 inches long and what you could do is cut section to fit where each ring is instead of soldering the whole thing, unless you wanted to. I cut the slots with an old 1/8 inch kerf 40 tooth carbide tipped sawblade for my table saw. I made a wood fixture to hold the base and I wore gloves and a safety goggles when I did it. You could probably do it with a hacksaw and a file as they only let that screw go across that clamps the rings. Just as long as they are straight, that is 90 degrees to the base.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Thanks, Joe. Would the mount diameter fit the barrel?

[Buckshot]

.............Junior, get a piece of keystock to fit in the rear sight base. Remove the ladder and the elevation wings. File in the wedge on the keystock that fits back into the rear end of the sight base. You can readily see it in the sight alteration photo's in my "Turk That Should Have Been" thread. Then narrow the keystock by filing so it snugs down into the entire length of the sightbase, just fitting in between the ears the ladder pivot goes through.

Drill a hole crossways through the ears on the sightbase, (using the ladder pivot holes) and your piece of keystock and drive in a rollpin. Depending upon the size keystock you used, you may want to reduce the height of it. Without a milling machine, you'll have to use the Nicholson mill via draw filing.

Put the barreled action in a vise, as straight and level as possible. Best if you have a straightedge and a small square. You'll use these to check your filing progress on the top of the keystock. The square you lay crossways across the keystock and use the vertical arm hanging down, to sight against the vise jaws. using them as a reference. For axial orientation if you have a straightedge use that. If not a decent carpenter's level will word.

Lay it longways (axially) on top of the keystock so it sticks over the front ring. The top of the front ring will be the reference. Either by eyeballing the seperation between the 2, or via the ID jaws of a dial caliper.

When you drawfile. swap front to back and back to front every so often. Naturally you'll strive to do your best. However you'll probably still need shims and even the best scope blocks and actions sometimes have to be shimmed into alignment.

Once you have the top of the piece of keystock to your satisfaction, D&T the mounting holes into the keystock for the scope mount. It's best if you can leave the barreled action in the vise to provide a steady platform for fitting the scopemount and scope. Aim it out the door or a window. Pull the bolt out and align the bore on some distant object. Leave the attaching screws loose when you put the scopemount and scope on top.

Now look through the scope and put the crosshairs on the same target as close as possible. Do not use the crosshair adjustment for this. If you have an old set of feeler gages you don't mind snipping strips off of, that'd be great. Use the shims either front or back, or possibly under opposing corners to get the crosshairs 'On Target'.

Once that is done go ahead and cinch down the scope mount to the base using some Loc-Tite, rubber cement, whatever. Your fine tuning to be done via crosshair adjustment. If the scope had been used the adjustment might not have been centered, In that case, adjust your shim(S) to suit.

There should not be any issue with the soft solder holding the rear sightbase to the barrel, even with the added weight. There's 3.5" of solder contact between the barrel and sight base (if done well) and it will have pleanty of shear strength under recoil. If you end up thinking you need more, drill 2 holes crossways side to side of the sightbase, just catching the top of the barrel. Then drive in the 2 pins. Kind of like the pinned barrel deal done on the older S&W revolvers.

...............Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Buckshot, what is "keystock"?

[357tex]

Buckshot
My brother made a scout scope mount for my russian md.38 nagant with key stock,just like you said.But he used a milling machine,then drilled and tapped for a lyman 366 lever action mount.They have a flat bottom and are cheap.He put a set screw in the frount of it to keep it tight.
It works good.Never had any problems with it.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot, what is "keystock"?

...........It's the rectangular steel pieces used on round shafts to locate pullys and such stuff. It comes in assorted sizes from weensy to honker (not to be too technical :-). It come square like 5/8x5/8 and in varying lengths. A GOOD hardware store will usually have it in either 4" or 12" long pieces in common sizes like 1/8"sq to maybe 5/8"sq.

Machine dealers and catalog places also usually have it in varying rectangular cross section such as 1/2x3/4" and in 2 or 3 lengths, plus they'll have tapered keystock. The bad part is that some online or mailorder places have a minimum order charge. If there is a machine shop or fabrication place in your area you could check in with them too.

If you want to go the keystock route and have no source, I'll check my other M38 Turk and see if I can't scrounge up a suitable piece halfway close and send it to ya.

..............357Tex, sounds like what I did back in the early 90's to make a scout mount for a M38 Swede. Big boo-boo I did though was to D&T 2 holes through the ladder alignment ears at the rear of the base to hold the back of the block. EEEK!! Well back then it was a $79 rifle :D. I'd imagine it'd still fetch $275 or so as it looks (otherwise) unissued, but those two 8-32 holes de-valued it a good $150 I suspect.

Oh well. Didn't buy'em to get rich, but my grandkids might cuss me some!

...............Buckshot

[Junior1942]

I'm looking in the Brownells cataloge page 341 at the Weaver Grand Slam "Solid Steel" bases. Only $8.95 a set. Maybe I could find a set with a close-fit diameter and solder these onto the barrel or have them TIG welded on? What say ye?????

[StarMetal]

Junior

I say that's a hell of alot easier then Buckshot's method. Being you'd take that rear sight assembly totally off it would probably look alot neater and cleaner too.

Junior if you go that route use the low temperature silver solder, also sold by Brownells, as it's much stronger then regular solder. That's what I used to anchor my 30 Luger barrel liner.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Thanks, Joe. I actually want to solder the bases on the barrel because I've never done it before. It's best to learn how on a $60 rifle, huh?

[Junior1942]

My rifles came today--totally coated in cosmoline. How do I get that stuff off and out? I'm thinking gasoline and rags in the yard. Maybe all that grease protected the bores. . . .

One has a 4 digit SN and the other one has a 6 digit SN. Both came with bayonet and scabbard, to my surprise.

I had a $12.93 overpay on the books at the dealer/FFL, and he said, "Let's call it even." So two rifles cost me a $12.93 handling/FFL charge.

[sundog]

Junior, there are some who will say, 'naw," but I used oven cleaner on wood only HEAVILY laden with cosmolene. Takes it down to the wood. Had a couple 03 that were way bad and they look good now. Don't get the stuff on you, I got a scare from a [chemical] burn. I would shy away from the gasoline, for sure. One thing about oven cleaner, though. If there's any kind of a finish on the wood, it's gone too! Right down to bare wood. Mine were so bad I had to do them twice. Sure took alot of work out it. Make sure you have eye protection, also. And rubber gloves. And ventilation. sundog

[Herb in Pa]

Junior, good old mineral spirits (paint thinner) works great for removing cosmoline and old grease. If you can find or make a trough large enough to put the rifle in (stock and all) and then just let the spirits do their work for a couple of days, you will be amazed at all the crud that will dissolve. The spirits wont raise the wood grain either.

[StarMetal]

Junior,

Don't use gasoline. Use something less volatile like kerosense. Mineral spirits like the other fellow said is good too. So is WD 40 if you buy it in the gallon can like I do.

On soft silver soldering those bases make sure that both metal surface are clean and free of oil and that you use the flux for silver solder, which one is sulfuric acid. Only apply the amount of heat needed to flow the solder. Best to tin best parts then join them.

Joe

[waksupi]

The last one I got, I used Goop hand cleaner, and a toothbrush to loosen things up. Then about three miles of paper towels. Worked pretty good.

[Jumptrap]

What have you fellers against gasoline? It's one of the best solvents ever made and at (currently) $2.39 a gallon...about as cheap as it gets. I've swallowed enough to kill a horse and ain't dead yet.....and surely to god, you hope to have enough damned sense not to smoke or stand next to torch while using the stuff.

It's my favorite solvent and I learned many years ago from a long departed uncle, who was a real mechanic, to keep a bucketful of the stuff with a lid on it and a parts brush. Cleans anything and everything.

Now, if you're stupid and a total klutz and was born an inbred retard, then by all means, stay away from it and don't use it for anything......even have somebody else pump it in your car.

If gas won't cut it, use carb. cleaner...which is really some horrible ****, but it works wonders.

[fiberoptik]

HEAT. I.E. blowdryer (for hair) on up to a heat gun for stripping paint (carefully on wood, it scorches) will melt off that Cosmo just fine. Save all the chemicals for afterwards. Steam cleaners work really good too. [smilie=f:

[Captain Midnight]

Question: I want to put a scout scope on them. I don't want to pay for hole drilling. Reckon there's a scope mount I could solder in place of the factory rear sight? I'm wanting to do the 38 Mauser exactly like the 93 Mauser of mine shown below.

Why not just a mount with no gunsmithing at all?
http://www.scopemounts.com

I'm ordering them for my M93's in7x57. Rings are included too!

Captain

[wills]

http://www.parkerizingtanks.com/yabbse/index.php

[Buckshot]

.............Remove the stocks from the barreled actions and go to the dollar car wash (usta be the 25 Cent car wash, but that was 20 years ago). Set'em on the ground and have at it. Flip'em over a couple times. Get the barrel channel good and the action inletting area of the stocks.

Now if y ahave to drive into the next county for a do it yoursef car warsh then your better off doing it manualy via a container of gas, paint thinner, parts cleaner, whatever.

Like Sundog I use the spray oven cleaner on the stock. If you have areas where grease and oil have really soaked the wood, use heat and a paste. I mixed up acetone and baby powder. Point a heat lamp at the spot and let it cook until it's quite warm to the touch. Chances are you'll have a quantity of it just oozing out.

I mixed up the baby powder and acetone in a glass jar to a paste consistancy and then just brush it on. The acetone will soak in and thin the oil and grease and the heat will pull it out. The baby powder will turn brown with the stuff. This isn't for the entire stock. Usually behind the action tang and maybe around the magazine area.

.............Buckshot

[Four Fingers of Death]

Sugar soap. Mix it with hot water and put the stock in the bath and cover it. I buy the liqid stuff and put a whole bottle in. Don't forget to clean the bath afterwards or the cook will get real nasty.

Talk about welded mounts, I was given this Israeli mauser which has been 'sporterised' class job on the mounts. I don't quite know what to do with it. The barrel is ok, but is pitted between the lands. I will see how it shoots. I will probably give it to a new shooter to get someone started. I have done this twice so far, strangely enough, both times with Israeli Mausers.

Mind you the old saying about no such thing as a free lunch, I have a mate who picked this up when a gunshop closed down and the dealer gave the last guns he couldn't sell to his best customers and retired. My mate is a collector of smick military rifles and didn't want this one, so he gave it to me. I went and picked it up and ended up paying $A100 storage and $25 licence transfer fee. Bit expensive for a rifle that looks like it has a good bolt and a cheap scope. The mil stock has been chopped short, the barrels is sad and the receiver is welded. What am I gonna do with this old ex nazi critter (nazi markings still on the front receiver ring)?

[Junior1942]

Well, after all morning with a brass-bristled brush, a plastic-bristled brush, lots of rags, and a solvent from a pump in front of a convenience store, one of my Turk 38s is cosmoline free.

Rifling = gone at the muzzle. A couple of inches below the muzzle, it looks like it ain't had a bullet shot through it. This is gonna be a shooter!

I thought I broke the lower band screw during its removal, but a call to J & G Sales gave the info that the screw ain't a screw--it's a swaged pin. As I want to be able to quickly remove the barreled action, looks like I'll have to tap the lower barrel band and install a 6-48 or 8-48 screw instead of the pin. Any better ideas? The tech guy at J & G said he installed a roll pin in his and swaged both ends.

[LIMPINGJ]

Junior I was just wondering how the Turks in the bath were doing? I was thinking about ordering a couple to make knock around rifles for myself and grandaughter. I was waiting to see how yours cleaned up before I ordered.
Jim

[StarMetal]

Junior,

Tapping that band for a screw sound fine if you can find a screw that long. Most the screws I've seen for barrel bands have the threads right under the head end of the screw so that when you screw them in you aren't compressing the band.

Joe

[Buckshot]

.............Nah, don't put no stinking screw through there! Inlet for a for real band spring. They're cheap.

...............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Yeah...that band spring idea is great, I forgot about that Buckshot. I may even have one Junior, I'll look.

Joe

[versifier]

4fingermick,
What is "sugarsoap"? It's probably something simple that we just use a different name for, "divided by a common language" and all that, but I'm curious. :confused:
Junior,
Attached is a shot of my 1916 Oberndorf Gw98. The scope mount is aluminum, d'd, t'd, and screwed onto where the sight used to sit. It didn't take much more than an hour to do it, and there was no soldering involved. I guess if you want to practice your soldering, you should go for it and have fun. Personally, I'd be more apt to use a total junker than something that will still shoot, but that's the Yankee in me. Post a shot of how it comes out, OK?

[Junior1942]

>The scope mount is aluminum, d'd, t'd, and screwed onto where the sight

I have a bench drill press, but I don't have the nerve to drill a hole in a rifle barrel.

Limpingj, the one I cleaned looks great. The stock was split in the area of the rear through-bolt but had been expertly repaired many years ago. I gave it more support via a headless nail epoxied in a drilled hole through the stock in the area in front of the rear bolt.

The area behind the recoil through-lug also shows a slight split, so today I will epoxy a brass through-rod across that area.

Both reinforcements probably aren't needed, but why not since it's so easy to do?

I must give J & G Sales a thumbs up for service after the sale. The forward guard screw on my 38 was h-e-double-L to remove due to boogered threads. The J & S guy said they had several parts 38s so he'd remove a guard screw and mail it to me.

[Junior1942]

Guys, here's a photo of the stock spit and the old repair. You can see where the grip area was inletted with two wood pieces to prevent the split from spreading. My epoxied nail reinforcement traverses the area just to the left of the brass pillar. I'll write an article about this entire process for www.castbullet.com so I'm taking lots of photos.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3803.jpg

[Junior1942]

This one shows it better. It shows me testing the cut-off nail for fit. The hole extends to within 1/4" to 1/2" of the other side of the stock. In other words, no hole shows on the other side. After the epoxy dried, the hole on this side is almost invisible.
http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3805.jpg

[versifier]

Junior,
While I'm certain that most of this is fairly obvious to you, I'll go into maybe a little more detail than I need to in case someone else wants to try it without a machinist to ask for help and advice. Like handloading, it's a bunch of fairly simple operations that taken together let you get done something complicated. As long as you have a decent cross-slide vice securely mounted squarely to the (level in both axes!) drill press table and you take extreme care as to the hole depth, it's doable. :coffeecom
First, level the action, then use a self-centering jig with a machinist's level to mark where the holes go. Use a punch to dimple the exact hole centers so the bit doesn't wander any. Double check that using the punch hasn't unleveled the action.
Next, chuck the bit and set your depth very carefully, double check the setting, then drill the holes, checking the depth of each one as you go and keep checking that the depth-stop hasn't loosened up from the vibrations - some of them do. :shock:
If you have a power tapper or a simpler one that can be chucked in the press, that's easiest, if not, use what you've got - they will all get the job done. Sometimes you can just chuck the tap itself and rotate the whole thing by grasping the outside of the chuck. Use a standard tap with plenty of thread cutting oil, backing off every quarter turn to break off the chips, then a bottoming tap (which can be easily made by slowly grinding off the tip of a same-sized tap, but keep it water quenched frequently to avoid heating - annealing - and thereby killing the tempering). 8-)
It's even easier to do it in a vertical milling machine, but not everyone has a Bridgeport in the garage or ready access to one at work. The main thing is to keep everything level and square and not to drill all the way through into the chamber :oops: (half-way is fine).
My soldering skills are pretty much limited to tiny projects, electronics, wood burning, and maybe plumbing repair if you're not fussy about the occasional leak. That's why I'd rather drill & tap. :rolleyes:

[StarMetal]

Junior,

You might enjoy this site:

http://www272.pair.com/stevewag/turk/turkmain.html

Joe

[Junior1942]

Thanks, Joe. That site's a gold mine!

[Four Fingers of Death]

4fingermick,
What is "sugarsoap"? It's probably something simple that we just use a different name for, "divided by a common language" and all that, but I'm curious. :confused:
Junior,
Attached is a shot of my 1916 Oberndorf Gw98. The scope mount is aluminum, d'd, t'd, and screwed onto where the sight used to sit. It didn't take much more than an hour to do it, and there was no soldering involved. I guess if you want to practice your soldering, you should go for it and have fun. Personally, I'd be more apt to use a total junker than something that will still shoot, but that's the Yankee in me. Post a shot of how it comes out, OK?

This originally was a powdered soap but is also available in a liquid form now and I don't know anyone who uses the old powder stuff. It is used to wash down walls prior to painting as it is especially good at dissolving grease and oils.

I'll drop into the hardware shop tomorrow and check out whats in it. No doubt there is a very similar product available in the states.

Aluminium can't be soldered to steel can it?

I have seen a few scope bases welded to actions in the past, most were farmers/graziers (ranchers) knock about rifles. The back receiver ring would be ok I suppose as there is not much strain on it, but I'd be a bit leery about welding the front ring, unless it was a TIG weld or something that was not going to deposit a lot of heat into the work.

[Frank46]

Sugarsoap, sounds like a cleaner with a lotta phosphate that home depot sell exactly for cleaning walls prior to painting. Mix it up with very hot water and wash away. Think the brand name is MEX or something similar. Frank

[Junior1942]

>but I'd be a bit leery about welding the front ring, unless it was a TIG weld

I plan to either solder steel bases or TIG weld steel bases to the barrel.

My surplus ammo should arrive today, so maybe by tomorrow I'll run some over the Chrony and also see how it groups with the military barrel and sights.

[Wayne Smith]

Frank, I think you are talking about TSP, trisodium phosphate. Used to be the cleaner for pre-painting, just about anything else. Don't think it's legal any more, too much phosphate in the environment causing alge blooms, etc. There's a substitute, but I don't know how effective it is.

[StarMetal]

TSP is still legal. Most all the hardware stores have it. I just bought some at ACE hardware.

Joe

[Frank46]

Wayne, home depot was where I last bought it here in looosiana. I do know that it was declared illegal for use in new york along with any phosphate based detergents. And for the reasons you stated. I have in the past used a paste made of acetone and whiting to leech out oil and grease soaked stocks. But here in LA its normally too hot and the acetone evaporates too fast. Need something with a slower evaporation rate.
Maybe naptha or something similar. Frank

[Junior1942]

I tried to fire the Turk 38 this afternoon. The firing pin just barely dents the primer. It wasn't cosmoline in the firing pin channel binding it, either. Looks like too much headspace. If the bolt out of the other Turk 38 doesn't work, looks like barrel removal time, huh?

[Scrounger]

I tried to fire the Turk 38 this afternoon. The firing pin just barely dents the primer. It wasn't cosmoline in the firing pin channel binding it, either. Looks like too much headspace. If the bolt out of the other Turk 38 doesn't work, looks like barrel removal time, huh?

No problem. Just take a primed case with maybe 10 grains of Unique and a cast bullet seated out so far it jams in the lands and the bolt will barely close. Fire that and adjust your reloading dies to just touch the new (farther forward) shoulder. You have a new wildcat round, 8mm Junior or whatever you choose to call it. Make some more brass and work up your loads, starting at 8x57 level and working up a bit. Another possibility is to simply run a .30-06 reamer into it and make it an 8mm/06, a definite improvement over the 8x57. Or you can have a gunsmith set the barrel back one or two threads and rechamber it to the original round, 8x57.

[StarMetal]

Art,

One of the gunrags not too long ago did an article on 8mm Mauser and touched on that 8mm-06. It said the main reason for that was with all the Mausers brought back there wasn't an abundance of 8x57 brass, thus ream them out for 8mm-06. They said, and I have to agree, that there was hardly any velocity improvement to make it worth while.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Junior,

Scrounger is right about fireforming that casing out if your Turk doesn't have a whole hell of alot of headspace. Then like he said you reset your sizing die to the new lenght. Headspace is really a SAAMI standard, it doesn't mean your Turk has to be the SAAMI standard, but they did SAAMI standards so manufacturers of both firearms and ammo would be uniform.

Joe

[Buckshot]

.............The tip of the firing pin could also be worn or busted. All the parts are built to be within certain tolerances. Could just be tolerance stacking which is the culprit. You have a firing pin length, bolt body length, cocking piece, sear, and bolt sleeve that all contribute to firing pin protrusion, amongst other things.

Remove the firing pin and stick it all the way into the bolt. Does the nose stick out further from the bolt face? If yes then there is something which controls it that isn't allowing that to happen.

..............Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Guys, what's the standards on Mauser 98 firing pin protruson? Mine on my Turk 38 is .030" to .035" and I'm thinking that's not enough.

[StarMetal]

Junior, being the pin is rounded on the end, theoretically it should never pierce the primer even it stuck out really far. I don't know what the standard is for the 98 Mauser, but I do know that if it's over .060 it's too much. Your's then appears alittle short. To bad it's not another type rifle such as say the Mosin Nagant as you can adjust how far the striker moves forward by threading it in or out more. Can't do that on the 98 Mauser.

Joe

[Junior1942]

A little Dremel tool grinding on the bottom of the cocking sleeve will increase the pin protrusion, looks like. The pin protrusion stops when the bottom of the cocking sleeve meets the inner top of the bolt sleeve.

I've got a no-go guage on the way, so I'll wait until I check headspace before I do any grinding. But it sure looks to me like .030" to .035" isn't much protrusion.

[StarMetal]

Junior if you go and grind on the sear it might upset the striker, sear, and safety coordinations. Don't forget there is a slot that the knife cam edge of the safety goes into on the striker sleeve. If that slot mores too much forward because you ground down the sear some, the safely may not ingage it.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Good point. Thanks, Joe.

[Wayne Smith]

Don't think I've ever posted this here, but I've got an old Turk that I got for $49 back when they could be sent to anyone directly. It had a questionable throat, muzzle wear, and a 30" barrel. I had a gunsmith cut the barrel back to 24" and run a '06 reamer in it, and essentially got a new rifle. I thought it was well worth the cost. I bubbaed up the stock, put a receiver sight on it, and it's my truck rifle and my experience rifle. When I get a checkering set that's the first stock I'll work on. It don't matter that much if I mess it up. Maybe someday I'll get someone to put on a different bolt handle and buy a Boyd's stock, but I doubt it.

[Junior1942]

Wayne, one reason I'm spending so much time and effort on my old Turk is the bore. Other than at the muzzle, it looks perfect. I'll cut the barrel to around 20", maybe less. I'll have a dandy scout rifle when I'm done. 'Twould be cool, IMHO, to stalk the thickets with a $60 tack driver slinging ~240 gr cast bullets at ~2,000 fps.

[StarMetal]

Junior

On a 98 mauser the firing pin, starting fromt he tip of the firing pin, is round, then it tapers up to a larger round diameter and they you come to a large chisel shaped portion. Okay, this male chisel had a corresponding female chisel in the the bolt body. You should take your bolt apart, take the firing pin out and make sure that there isn't any crud packed into that female chisel hole. After all those years who knows what might have accumulated in there. I would assume you know how to take the firing pin out of the bolt body. If not feel free to holler.

Joe

[Frank46]

Junior, I had a similar problem when I bought my bubbized krag. The firing pin fall was more of a splat rather than a sharp click. Disassembled the bolt and scrubbed our the interior of the bolt body. Lotsa old dried up grease and gruda. Lubricated it and reassembled and worked fine after that. The firing protrusion of .030 sounds likda short, should be on the order of .055 maximum. Also check to see if the firing pin tip is hemispherical. Maybe someone had pierced primers at some time and ground the tip back. Just a thought, Frank

[StarMetal]

I thought I would stick this in here on Juniors threat because first it's similar and second I know he will like reading it. I have a 1908 Brazilian long rifle (29 inch barrel) that I wanted to turn into a carbine. It's not matching numbers so I didn't care. I yanked the long barrel and installed a brand new military 19.5 inch barrel. I used the rear sight off a Jap T38 because it was shorter and easier to work with. I modified the upper forearm cover to fit the shorter sight and I moved the front sling band back. I made a new muzzle cap. None of this is done yet and it needs wood and metal finish yet. I modified the sights to square notch and square front post style. I need to turn the bolt the down and haven't decided if I'm going to scope it. I have a picture of it along side my Argentine Engineers carbine to give you and idea of it's new size. Took a picture of the muzzles of both also. That strip of inserted wood on the Brazilian's forestock is where the spring for the front band retainer was. After I refinish it, it won't be noticeable and the spring inlet still needs to be cut and the spring put in. Just showing yall what's going on it with it.

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/7385ShortMauser.jpg

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/7385Muzzles.jpg

Joe

[Junior1942]

Thanks, Joe. It helps to see what somewhat else is doing.

This photo gives a better idea of what I'm doing. The handguard is coming off, and the band will be cut off on both sides at the stock/handguard junction. This will allow me to use the original band as a sling attachment point. The band is tapped 6-32, as you can see. The stock will be chopped off at about the left edge of the picture, the barrel about 2" beyond that. I will slide the cut-off steel cleaning rod down through the barrel channel, then screw it in place via a hacksawed screwdriver slot in the front edge. Then I'll fill the channel with epoxy and also epoxy the band and the 6-32 screw in place.

The glued-solid steel cleaning rod will provide much stability to the forward part of the stock.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3814.jpg

[45nut]

The following is a report from Krag35,,,pc issues over at his household preclude his posting.
#############################################

My wife bought me a Turkish Mauser for Christmas 5 years ago. I have shot it probably twice, it shoots good, but is about as handy as a armload of coathangers. Was supposed to go Elk hunting Sat. but my partners skipped out, so I went to the shop with the Turk and a plan.

What I started with
http://www.hunt101.com/img/348694.jpg

I wanted to keep the kind of military look, and the bayonet attachment, I don't know why.
I shortened the barrel to 18"

http://www.hunt101.com/img/348696.jpg

Then filed the muzzle down so the front sight sleeve would go back on (that was a pain)
http://www.hunt101.com/img/348697.jpg

then it was stock work time

http://www.hunt101.com/img/348698.jpg

Pic. of the muzzle end with the parts I took out.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/348699.jpg


Finished product
http://www.hunt101.com/img/348700.jpg

It isn't going to win any pretty awards, but it ought to make a fine "Truck" gun.
When I get back from hunting in 2 weeks, going to have to try it out.

Krag35

[krag35]

Thanks 45nut
krag35

[Buckshot]

.............Krag35, heck that turned out right nice. You know that thing is going to blow your eardrums out, don'tcha? :D Moveing the front sight back will probably have you shooting lower, whcih is good as you can file the rear sight's notch deeper that way.

Joe, good looking job so far. That engineer's carbine is really nice looking. Makes my poor ole beat to heck thing look like an orphan, HA. SHoots good, but looks ratty.

..............Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Krag, that is a very good job. I like that you kept the bayonet lug. How tough was the inletting job on the front band? I might tackle that, but I have zero wood chisels. I can't decide on an 18" or 20" barrel. Why did you decide on 18"? Again, great job.

[krag35]

Thanks for the kind words;

It will shoot lower, but I intend to put a peep on it in the near fututre when I find one priced right. Might also try my hand at making a taller front sight. Filing the rear notch deeper is also good, them Turks must have had some kind of good eyesight to use them little bitty things. Loud, I reckon so, especially with Milsurp, or Seller and Bellot factory. When I get that shot up, I have a Lyman 4 banger for a 165 (?) loverin I can tone the noise down with. I once had a Remington 742 carbine 18 1/2" bbl, that was an obnoxoius loud little snot, quite handy tho.

Inletting wasn't that hard, mostly used a hacksaw to cut where I wanted a strait line, and used a horeshoe rasp for hogging out wood and a file once it got close. I did have to do a bit of chisel work to fit the flat piece in the front of the nosecap, but it could have been done with a pocketknife if a feller is carefull. I did not inlet the nosecap retaining spring, I simply drilled and pinned it. Since I don't intend to actually use the bayonet, didn't figure it needed the extra strength, but I might go back and fit it if I get REALLY bored.

I went with 18" because I wasn't sure where barrel length was measured from. I chambered a fired case and dropped the cleaning rod down till it hit, marked it then used it for a guide as to where to cut. I would have preferred 16" but wanted to err on the side of caution. Anything longer gets unhandy in the cab of a pickup :-) As it is now, it's only 1" longer than a Win 94 Carbine, but a good bit heavier.

My Son Dale helped me with the project, and that was the best part of it.


Next up is restocking a NRA Krag Carbine, anyone have a source for them?

krag35

[StarMetal]

Boyds has full lenght stocks, exact copies.

Buckshot

Thanks for the kind words on my eng carbine. I wish it was the cavalry one as that one doesn't have those ugly bayonet bands. Oh well. It is in pretty minty shape and it wasn't reblued either. Nice little carbines for sure.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Joe, when I get the article written about my Turk 38 you guys will get prominent credit.

I'd rather use the original stock as it has battle scars.

Midway flyer today says they have A & B 98 barrels for $79.99 with a FREE CoreLite stock!

[StarMetal]

Junior,

I appreciate the mention along with the other fellows. It's fun helping someone with a project that myself is undertaking. We all can learn from each other.

I tell you what I wish I had and that's a buffing grinder with the buff wheels. I can refinish the wood with no problems but the metal is tougher to finish without a good way to buff it.

I saw those kits at Midways you speak of. I kind of prefer a cut barrel for cast thought. You know that barrel on my carbine project is an old brand new barrel, like Buckshot mentioned.

Joe

[krag35]

Thanks Joe, I'll look them up. I beleive whoever it was that cut down the rifles for the NRA also cutdown the stocks, so I'll be keeping it at least to the second round of original :-)
krag35

[Junior1942]

Except for a couple of coats of boiled linseed oil and the scope mount, my Turk is ready for action. All my stuff for reloading plus the scope mounts
should be here by Friday. It all shipped this morning. Maybe I'll get to
hunt with the Turk on Sunday.

I'm glad I went without the handguard even though not using it meant several
hours of work altering the lower band. Without the handguard, it doesn't
look so much like a military rifle.

The steel cleaning rod epoxied inside the stock makes the stock as solid and
as rigid as an I beam. An hour with the Dremel tool with a sanding disc and
the barrel is free-floated. It's got good rifling. Might be a dandy
shooter!

The photo shows the lower band cut off and fitted and epoxied and pinned to the forearm. You can see the steel cleaning rod showing through the opaque epoxy in the barrel channel.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3819.jpg

[StarMetal]

Way to go Junior, you may have one fine shooter on your hands. I am heavy thinking about putting a scope on mine.

Joe

[LIMPINGJ]

Like Junior I decided to order 2 from J&G. Hope they show up later this week. The carbines you all have been making sure look good. I plan to try 1, hope it turns out as nice. The other gets the bubba sporter conversion.
Keep the post coming some great ideas on this site.
Jim

[krag35]

Joe;
I'm not coming up with a viable link for boyd's gunstocks. Do you have a good link?
TIA
krag35

[StarMetal]

Krag35

It's www.boydboys.com

I tried it and seems it's down right now

Try it tomr.

Joe

[krag35]

Will do, thank you very much
krag35

[Buckshot]

...............Krag35 I got a full length infantry stock and handguard for my Krag several months ago. Boyds sure does a super clean and sharp inletting job. All I need now is a rountuit and everything will be jake.

................Buckshot

[Junior1942]

Y'all can tickle me with a feather. Just fired my first reload through the Turk. I used one of the chopped off Turk bullets and 37 grs vs ~40 of the Turk powder. I estimate velocity at 2200 fps. I couldn't find the bullet in the berm--went under a log--but it hit about 8" low and exactly on in windage aiming at my 141 yard gong. I did a good job of eyeball adjusting the 3x pistol scope when I installed it. I could "Up" the scope 4 clicks and take the rifle hunting in the morning.

The B-Square Mauser 98 mount fit with some Dremel work on the ears of the military sight. I ground a little on the insides of the ears to give the mount some more windage adjustment, and to make the mount fit I had to grind down, a little, the forward bar that goes from ear to ear. My ears were a little short, I guess. The tapped holes in the sides of the mount wouldn't line up with the holes which originally held the pin in the old sight.

I also glass bedded the action, using J & B Weld on the crossbolt/recoil lug area and epoxy on the rear tang area. The photo shows the J & B Weld in the crossbolt area and shows the epoxied cleaning rod in the forestock. The barrel is free-floated from near the action all the way to the end of the stock.

The recoil lug on the barrel was probably 1/32" to 1/64" from touching the crossbolt on top and in front. The military blue on both mating surfaces wasn't even scratched. That explains why the front trigger guard screw was badly bent. It also explains why the take-off screw the J & G guy sent me as a replacement was slightly bent. The screw was absorbing all the recoil in my rifle and in J & G's take-off rifle. Y'all check your rifles!

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3821.jpg

[Junior1942]

Shot about 30 rounds through the Turk today. I gave up on the surplus ammo. Anybody coming this way, is welcome to the maybe 375 rounds left over. Goodbye $50. The super big meplat on the cut off tips didn't feed perfectly.

The Turk is zeroed and ready for the woods. The picture shows a 4-shot, 100 yard group shot with the Rem 185 gr non-cast bullet and 3.4cc/45.5 grs Varget for 2334 fps. Only problem I had all day was the B-Square mount shot loose once. I tightened it, but . . . . We shall see.

The picture shows the first 3 rounds in about 3/8". But I had 4 rounds loaded. A look through the spotting scope showed evidence of a fine 3 shot group . . . . Oughta, shoulda stopped there. But noooooooo. . . . Round 4 opened the group to 2 1/4". Now as far as I'm concerned that's fine for a $59.95 rifle with an elcheapo 3x scope on it.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3825.jpg

[StarMetal]

Junior,

Hell, that's outstanding. That fourth shot might have been when the mount come loose. Three in that one little cluster is outstanding.

I just started sanding down my stock. Metal work is done except for bluing. Still deciding to whether I should scope it or not.

Good job on your rifle.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Joe, I ain't positive but I think the mount came loose a few shots earlier. The jury is out on the B-Square mount, by the way. It's still tight after 20 rounds or so after the re-tighten job, but . . . .

Dang, I want to run some cast through the Turk! I have some 175 gr cast on the way from www.gardnerscache.com, and I have a 225 gr Lee mold on the way, too.

The Turk's going hunting in the morning if it isn't raining. I'll use the 185 Rem at 2334 fps.

[4060MAY]

junior
Don't throw away the turk ammo. if it has powder like the old sen-sen, squares.
I've been pulling bullets dump powder reload with 30gr and rcbs 32-170-fn.
use needlenose pliars to bell mothe a little, leave it there, bullets sized .325.
doesn't shoot too bad in a BRNO mauser straight bolt.

want some boolits, pm with an address, cover shipping.

Chuck

[Junior1942]

Guys, here's a look at my Turk soon after we came in from deer hunting today. The rifle's OAL length is 39 7/8". Only thing I'll do differently is use thinner rings and see if I can move the scope 1" forward for perfect eye relief.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3817.jpg

[StarMetal]

Junior

A suggestion is to use a set of extension rings. Both Weaver and Millet have them for a Weaver style base. Actually the set only contains one ring that is extended about 3/4 inch. The set ring that comes with the set is a standard right. Looking at your picture you could use the exstension ring on the front with the exstension towards the muzzle, thus you could slide the scope forward.

I got the B-Square mount for my Mauser, the conventional type for regular scope over the receiver and that puppy fit like God made it. It was very very easy to drill and tap the receiver too, not hard one least bit like a Jap or Springfield. I also scoped my SKS with a permanant type side mount.

Pictures will be coming soon.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Joe, you're right. One extension ring would fix me up. If the narrow Tasco rings don't work, I'll go with extension rings.

Here's a close up of scope and mount. If it shoots loose again, I'm having that rear vertical 1/4" screw TIG welded to the barrel. About 30 rounds so far and it's still tight.

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3818.jpg

[StarMetal]

Junior

On some ring styles you can grind those babies down thinner, mostly the steel ones with just two screws. Unfortunately you can't to that on those Weavers. For rings for my SKS I ordered the Millet Angle-Loc Weaver style, and for the Mauser just regular Weaver.

Joe

[8mmshooter]

Nice job on the Turk Jr. A little of the old american ingenuity strikes again. Can you possibly pull those bullets and drop the powder charge a mite and use the remington sp points in the turk cases for hunting? Hate to see your $50 go down the tubes. 8mmshooter

[Junior1942]

8mmshooter, I whacked off the FMJ noses with a Mini Cut Off tool down to the lead core, making a 189 gr FP bullet. I load them in R-P cases with CCI non-corrosive primers and 37 grs of the Turk powder for 2125 fps. Several 3-shot, 100 yard groups averaged 2.9". Maybe tomorrow this time I can tell you how they work on deer!

[Scotty]

I was always told its a bad idea to cut the nose off a fmj , they say its possible to shoot the core out and leave the jacket behind ... that could be bad :-( .
Just my $.02



Scotty, :redneck:

[Junior1942]

That is true, Scotty. It's why these cut off FMJ bullets are loaded down to ~2100 fps from ~2400 fps. I'd guess they're a low 30 to 32,000 PSI.

[bruce drake]

Junior,

depending on your setup, it might be easier to use some LocTite versus Tig Welding it. It sounds like it rotates within the scope base from the recoil of the rifle. Loctite has a reputation for holding that may be worth the price of a tube.

PM me with your address and I'll send you some 170gr Lee to try out in the rifle if no one has sent you any.

Bruce

[TCLouis]

Junior1942

As I remember it Brownells (who else) sells a all thread rod to use for repainiring split stocks. The grip provided bu the threads being the only advantage over your method.

Seems like a small machine screw from brass or SS would do the same thing by drilling a slightly undersized hole and just cut the screw off flush after screwing it into an epoxy filled hole.

[Scrounger]

Junior1942

As I remember it Brownells (who else) sells a all thread rod to use for repainiring split stocks. The grip provided bu the threads being the only advantage over your method.

Seems like a small machine screw from brass or SS would do the same thing by drilling a slightly undersized hole and just cut the screw off flush after screwing it into an epoxy filled hole.

Home Depot and other hardware stores sell the threaded (headless) rods cheaper and easier. I know they have 1/4-20, they may have smaller or larger, too, but that's a good size to work with.

[Junior1942]

Junior,

depending on your setup, it might be easier to use some LocTite versus Tig Welding it. It sounds like it rotates within the scope base from the recoil of the rifle. Loctite has a reputation for holding that may be worth the price of a tube.

PM me with your address and I'll send you some 170gr Lee to try out in the rifle if no one has sent you any.

BruceYou know what? I have a tube of blue Loctite and it never crossed my mind to use it on the mount screws! I used it on the scope rings but not on the mounts. . . .

I have a brand spanking new Lee 170 gr mold, Bruce. But thanks for the offer!!

Re: all thread bolt for split stocks: An all thread rod in 1/8" or 1/16" might come in handy some day. On my Turk stock, I used a cut-off nail and two pieces of a brass rod, all were liberally scored and scratched with a Dremel wheel or a file edge.

I thought you guys might want to see a photo of me and the Turk on its new battlefield--the deer woods. I'm packing it via a saddle ring sling hooked through the stock's rear swivel ring. The camera is tied to a tree limb and is on the timer. We're about 1/2 mile from my car and in the deep woods. Notice the cypress knees in the right background. My hands are in my jacket pockets and wrapped around HeatMax hand warmers. It was cold!!!

http://www.castbullet.com/makeit/photos/m3820.jpg

[krag35]

Looks good Junior;

Haven't gotten to shoot mine yet, pure lazyness on my part. What's "cold" down your way? The kids and I took the boat out fishing yesterday, it was 7 degrees when we got on the water.

Thanks for the posts on converting your Turk, have given me some good ideas for my next one.

krag35

[StarMetal]

Junior

Any thread locker is supposed to be used on the mount screw and not the rings. I would imagine if you have a severe recoil rings coming lose problem then it might be ok.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Seems like a small machine screw from brass or SS would do the same thing by drilling a slightly undersized hole and just cut the screw off flush after screwing it into an epoxy filled hole.You want the hole slightly oversized, not undersized. Making the hole smaller than the scew/rod/nail makes a stress point to cause more stock splitting. The epoxy will fill the excess in the hole.

>What's "cold" down your way? The kids and I took the boat out fishing yesterday, it was 7 degrees when we got on the water.

At 7 degrees here in north Louisiana, we'd all freeze to death. This morning it was 30 and I like to froze. Yesterday morning it was 24 and I wasn't nearly so cold. The coldest I remember it getting here was -1 about 15 years ago.

[Junior1942]

Junior

Any thread locker is supposed to be used on the mount screw and not the rings. I would imagine if you have a severe recoil rings coming lose problem then it might be ok.Joe, I've always put a daub of blue Loctite on a fingertip and ran it around the inside of the rings before tightening them. It leaves just a tiny coating of Loctite, and I've never had a scope slide in its rings.

[StarMetal]

Junior

I was talking about on the ring screws. Ross Seyfred who was into those big bore handgun wildcats said that scopes on them slip and he used 3M Liquid Electrical Tape on the insides of the rings, no more slip ever and also hard to get the scope out.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Good idea, Joe. I'm changing the rings today, so I'll put some of the blue goo on the screws and inside the rings.

[StarMetal]

Junior,

I'm not being clear I guess. When mounting a scope you normally put locktite on the base screws because the base is something that you don't remove often. On the ring you can put something inside the rings such as we discussed to keep the scope from moving, but normally gunsmiths DO NOT put any locktite on the rings screws either the screws that clamp the scope or the screws that clamp the rings to the base because a scope IS something that gets removed alot more then a base. They say this because the locking material will make the rings harder to remove. Now that's not saying that you can put it on there if you wish, but it's not really needed. Maybe in severe recoiling large handgun calibers there might be. Hope that clears it up.

Joe

[Junior1942]

Loud and clear.

[StarMetal]

Junior,

Shooting cast really doesn't impose much recoil unless you're loading them really hot and most of us don't do that. If you're going to keep shooting that machinegun 8mm ammo you have (hahahahaha) maybe you could use the locktite on everything.

My rings and scope should be here today for the Mauser project and also the rings for the Yugo SKS project...will be posting about that.

Joe

[Dutch4122]

I bet you were missing the beard that morning, eh?

[waksupi]

I use finely powdered pine resin on the inside of scope rings. Cheap, and works good.

[Junior1942]

I gave up trying to get good cast bullet groups with my Turk until after hunting season when I have more time to experiment. Looks like I'm gonna have to lower the velocity on the #323471 to less than 1600 fps to get a group of 2" or less. At 1700 fps or so, it'll put 3 in 4" and the next 3 in 18".

Got the Turk to shooting 1 1/2" to 2" 3 shot groups with the 185 Rem and 44 grs of Varget. Velocity is ~2225 fps est. That'll be my deer load for the rest of the season. Wish me luck in the morning.

[Junior1942]

Guys, there's an article starting on pg 68 of this month's, December 2005, _Handloader_ magazine on the 8x57 in a Remington Model 700 Classic. Long story short, he used 8 different bullets and probably 8 different powders and averaged, overall, 3-shot, 100 yard groups of 1.43".

He used a new, 2004 M700 24" barrel rifle to which he added a Timney trigger, a Gre-Tan firing pin assembly, and he topped all that with a 3 - 9x Burris Fullfield II scope. He's probably got $2,000 in that outfit.

With only one powder and one bullet with which to experiment, I'm getting 3-shot 100 yard groups of 1 1/2" to 2" out of my 38 Turk which is topped with a 20-year-old 3x pistol scope with built-in 50 yard parallax compensation, not 100 yards. The trigger is Turk. The firing pin assembly is Turk. The Turk barrel is hacksawed off to 20" and the stock is bedded with Wal-Mart epoxy. I've got $150 max in my outfit. :violin:

[Buckshot]

.....................Well Junior it's very simple. Just sink another $1,747.38 in your Turk and you can shave another 1/4" off your groups at 100 yards :). If I was you I'd write in about your rifle and be sure to include a picture!

Sheesh! No wonder people think you have to have a ton of money to get something shooting. Of course Remington and the others wouldn't like it too much if your story started, "Took my $49 Turk M38 and.................."

....................Buckshot