6.5 x 55 dies, now what?

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

I was at a salvage/resale store over the weekend and picked up some reloading tools really cheap. In my excitement I did not think of the consequences of my actions. Among the items that I picked up was a set of dies for a 6.5 X 55 and a lee loader for the same, but I have no rifle to match.:roll: I would like to guage the group to see the most owned and best liked of the rifles chambered for my new dies. Tell it.

Regards,
Everett

[45 2.1]

Get a Swede Model 38. It is the easiest to get shooting well.

[pearson1662]

Get a Swede Model 38. It is the easiest to get shooting well.

Interesting. Why do you think that is? I have a M38 and a M96 but have not shot any cast from them as of yet.

[sundog]

http://home.windstream.net/corkyconnell/swede_1pt6.jpg

[45 2.1]

Interesting. Why do you think that is? I have a M38 and a M96 but have not shot any cast from them as of yet.

I've shot several different cast designs from the Swede semi-auto, M96, M94 and M38 and have gotten excellent accuracy out of most of them. The M38 was the best to work with. Please note that Swedes have deep rifling and a steep twist.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

Understanding that the market is widely varied from area to area. What is the norm for cost of one of these rifles in "good" condition?

Regards,
Everett

[Calamity Jake]

I know where there is a 96 for sale here @ $400. I have 3 so I don't need another

[Dutchman]

The record holders and match rifles in Sweden are all m/96. They're considered the better rifle, more accurate rifle. The m/38 was never used as a match rifle nor a sniper rifle. The two Swedish sniper rifles, the m/41 and m/41b, are both modified m/96 rifles. The m/96 is also the better finished rifle. The 20,000 Husqvarna m/96 built for the Swedish target shooters were better finished than the m/38 Husqvarna.

As with anything, the more you educate yourself prior to buying the better the chance that you'll make a good choice. I've tried before to do abbreviated tutorials on how to pick a m/96 but it can't be done (by me). The longer you've been involved with a specific rifle in collecting the more insidious are all the details. The best advise I can give is to buy a rifle from a reputable dealer or someone you know. With the prices being realized lately it'd be easy to get stung. There are no cheap Swedes anymore. $300-650+.

Don't buy a Swede without a matching bolt. Minor mis-match parts like barrel bands isn't a huge big deal. They sometimes end up mis-match during the rebarreling process. Also, don't buy a Swede with a mis-match buttplate number. This nearly always indicates a mis-match stock as buttplates were individually fitted to each stock by hand its hard to swap buttplates so they don't. The seller in the U.S. who swap stocks to get a better price don't really know this little tidbit and wil lie about it. Don't rely on the brass disc for the current bore condition or size as most Swedish Mausers have been in the U.S. since circa 1987-88-90.

There is one single stupid indicator to look for. White tape across the top of the comb of the buttstock with a two digit number like 77 or 79. This tape was put there by Swedish regimental armorers to indicate the date of the last inspection.. 1977 or 1979. Most American collectors, myself included, won't leave that piece of tape on the stock, they take it off. If you find a rifle with the tape in place its usually an indication that the rifle was purchased when they were $50-60 and stuck in the closet. I've seen this exact issue come up many times over the last 15 years.

Always inspect for a small crack in the stock at the rear of the receiver tang. Many Swedes will have this. Despite what anyone tells you these small hairline cracks are not "stabilized". They are latent. They'll continue opening up or going futher into the wrist of the stock until the end of time. It may be a slow process but its a severe detraction in value. I cut a stock once on the table saw and within one week the crack opened up to the bottom of the wrist. This is why I call it latent. "Exposed but not yet developed". Sellers will say "its stabilized". Don't buy such a rifle. Its caused from flawed inletting, insufficient clearance between the rear receiver tang and the stock.

See... I can't get into this without going on and on and on:).

It is a metaphysical phenomenon that if you buy or otherwise acquire the sling or bayonet, or in your case the dies, that you will then acquire the rifle. This bass ackwards approach to gun collecting has been duly noted by the American Psychiatric Institute and the Edgar Cayce Association for Research and Enlightenment in Virginia Beach, VA. Don't fight it, just follow the light and you'll be fine.

Dutch - enlightened by Swedish Mausers since 1966

[45 2.1]

The record holders and match rifles in Sweden are all m/96. They're considered the better rifle, more accurate rifle. The m/38 was never used as a match rifle nor a sniper rifle. The two Swedish sniper rifles, the m/41 and m/41b, are both modified m/96 rifles. The m/96 is also the better finished rifle. The 20,000 Husqvarna m/96 built for the Swedish target shooters were better finished than the m/38 Husqvarna.

Your probably right, for jacketed bullets. My recommendation came from practical tests with cast boolits out of nine different mold designs. They all shoot pretty darn well within the confines of what most guys here shoot ( that is under 1700 fps ). If you want to shoot faster than that, the M38 does better.

[Dutchman]

Your probably right, for jacketed bullets.


Correctomundo.. I momentarily lost consciousness that we were discussing the narrowness of cast bullets only. And with cast bullets in the 6.5x55 I'm on the lower end of the learning curve, though I'm aiming to change that. I have to <ahem> admit that so far my better shooting with both the 140 Loverin and Lee 170 was in a Carl Gustaf m/38..... <dohhh!>. I erringly put the converted Gustaf m/38 into the same category as m/96 because they were m/96 while the purpose built Husqvarna m/38 were never m/96. Such is the esoterica of Swedish Mausers. I have 266673 on the way. I hope it does as well as the other two I've tried so far.

Dutch

[beemer]

The Swedes are very well made and usually more accurate than most people can shoot. I prefer the 96 because of the long sight radius. When the deer hunters come around to sight in their scope sighted rifles I drag out the old army gun and give them a lesson. The old Swede shoots better groups than most of the Remchesters with Loophole scopes and plastic stocks.

Prices have gone up around here, what cost a $100 8 or 9 years ago will cost about $350 now. Dutchman's advice is correct, just be picky and always check the bore. When I am looking for another milsurp I carry a jointed cleaning rod. If the dealer will not me wipe it out I walk. It might be his rifle but it's my money.

beemer

[45 2.1]

Dutchman-
I'd be interested in hearing how well the m96 and its conversions shoot with jacketed. No S&L rifle groups please, just the military versions.

[Beaverhunter2]

My M96 shot 2" 10-shot groups @ 100yds from a bench. That was with the standard sights and the military trigger. Not bad for a 100 year-old rifle. I sporterized it (Timney trigger, scoped, free-floated carbelite stock) and worked up some loads. With a 95gr V-max it consistently shoots sub-1" 10 shots now. I wish I'd picked up a couple more when they were cheap.

John

[9.3X62AL]

Other 6.5 x 55 variants out there.........Ruger still puts out a few Model 77 bolters in this caliber. I have one, and love it. 1-9" twist, not as fast as the milsurps but still kinda quick. Mine has never seen a cast boolit, and likely won't.

CZ-USA imports a few of their CZ-550 bolters in 6.5 x 55 as well. Both half-stock American (slick barrels) and full-stock Mannlicher versions with open irons are available.

[Dutchman]

Dutchman-
I'd be interested in hearing how well the m96 and its conversions shoot with jacketed. No S&L rifle groups please, just the military versions.

S&L ? No savvy nada.

A good m/96 can do 1 MOA without breaking stride... with a good shooter. As with any military rifle series, not all will do this. The long stocked m/96 can still be influenced by stock pressure or bedding problems as any rifle can. But Sweden was a nation of riflemen, as were the Swiss, Germans, Americans and Finns. Moreso than some other nations, so they paid more attention to detail in attaining long range accuracy potential.

Most all of the serious Swedish Mauser shooters who I rub elbows with over on gunboards will tell you every time its the m/96 they've found to be the more accurate of the models. When Husqvarna purpose built 20,000 rifles for the FSR shooting clubs it was in a m/96 configuration, not m/38. Because of my website and my involvement at gunboards with the Swedish military firearms forum I hear from collectors and shooters of Swedish Mausers in Australia, Italy, Canada, New Zealand, Germany, Holland and Sweden. The Dutch Open high power rifle championship a couple years ago was won by a m/96 Swedish Mauser that kicked ass on tricked out Ar15s. It just happened to be a exceptionally good rifle and a above average shooter, Ger de Kok.

Most of my cast bullet testing will be with two m/96, one with a long eye relief scope and one with iron sights. The 96/38 I have has a receiver mounted 3-12x scope and has proven to like cast bullets so I'll use that because of the scope to test handloads. If it didn't have the scope I probably wouldn't have shot it as I just prefer the m/96 for balance and.. ambiance. I just have an emotional attachment to the m/96, and all long barreled rifles in general.

But I came to frequent this forum to learn and sometimes I need to remember to shut up and listen because the amount of knowledge here is awsum. I'm enjoying learning things I never knew and remembering things I did know. The world of bullet casting has changed a lot in the 15 years since I was involved.

I don't shoot or own sporters. The only rifles I mess with are mis-matched usually with the bolt and other parts. Installation of the Dayton single stage trigger and my own design no-mod long eye relief scope mount are the only things I do to my rifles and only on the mis-match rifles, my range rifles. One also has a Harris bipod stud mounted to a lower band keeper but its on my FrankenSwede parts rifle. I'm a believer, an adamant believer and practitioner of leaving collectible rifles in collectible condition and that means I don't mess with them in any way.

Dutch

[45 2.1]

S&L ? No savvy nada.
Shultz and Larsen match rifles, Danish built.

A good m/96 can do 1 MOA without breaking stride...
So will cast at the shorter ranges up to two hundred yards, most of the time with the m96, all of the time with the m38.
Try 11.3 gr. of Unique with the 170 gr, Lee.

[Cap'n Morgan]

I'd be interested in hearing how well the m96 and its conversions shoot with jacketed. No S&L rifle groups please, just the military versions.

A friend of mine has a converted M96 he uses for hunting(new stock & trigger, original barrel shortned to 23" ). It took a bedding before it really would shoot, but now It will easily hold one inch groups at 100 meters, using Norma match ammo - and this is under "hunting" conditions; prone, using a bi-pod.

It will do 1.5" all day long with 140 grain Nosler Partitions at 2700 fps.

I have seen a handful of converted M96 who wouldn't shoot at all. They all had full length stock made from 'Danish Cheapwood' (beech) In two of the cases I managed to persuade the owner to chop off the front of the stock - after which the guns shot absolutely great.

[beemer]

I looked over the loads for the Swede that I worked with over the past 10 years. A good many would do under 1 1/4 and some an inch or better at 100 yds for 5 shots off a bench. I have to add that it is harder to do than a few years ago but thats me not the rifle.

The best loads were with 140 gr match grade bullets and some type of 4350 and AA 3100. The Sierra 107 also did very well. One rifle was drilled and tapped and a scope was mounted but really didn't do much better. Most loads were shot with a M96 in very nice original condition.

I also like the long barrels on M96, the long sight radius is a big help with iron sights. I have paid 3 times as much for a new heavy barreled rifle and scope and it didn't shoot much better if you consider practical accruacy.

beemer

[Nelsdou44]

I've built a couple of 6.5x55 rifles on Turk mauser actions. The particular Turk action to use is the large ring K. Kale receiver that accepts the small ring barrels.

One is a sporter with a 21 inch A&B barrel six-groove, 9 twist. Excellent cast shooter. The sporter barrels have shorter throats than the military swedes.

The other is in the original Turk military trim with the original 8mm barrel replaced with a swede barrel. Both military barrels (29 inch) are the same dimensions, so it is a simple drop in, including finish ream/headspace. The only modification I had to do was to trim the Turk handguard to accept the rear swede sight. It hasn't seen cast yet, due to the fact I'm still breaking in the barrel by shooting jacketed. I'm not a big fan of long barrels, but its accuracy is impressive and I've grown fond of that Turkish walnut.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/BubbaChevy/100_0555.jpg

Nels

[C1PNR]

Look for the model you like, and can afford. Almost all of the Swedes will shoot.

I, unfortunately, found one of the few that wouldn't. It was a well sanded and no bore disc (first clue) 96/38 short rifle dated 1900. After I got it home I found a barrel that looked more like a sewer pipe. My fault, didn't insist on a cleaning rod look. I bought it to shoot, so the sanded stock didn't bother me and it did bring the price down (second clue).

Long story short, I got a replacement M38 barrel, had the bolt turned down, installed Lyman 57 Rear and Globe front sights, and eventually I'll put new wood on it.

And as was previously mentioned, Ruger sells one, CZ has one, and Winchester did for a while in their M70 FW, and there are probably some others as well.

[Ricochet]

6.5 x 55 dies, now what? (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=33038)

Tried CPR?

[Prodigal Son]

Anyone have any time with the M94, I was working on Norma brass all day today. It shoots copper good, I want to try some lead and see what she will do. Not completely original, but all matching number. Has a 57 SME and shorty front ramp. Someone sporterized it, but still a nice shooter!

[Bodydoc447]

My wife bought me one in 6.5x55. It is a NICE rifle!! I expect it will bring home the bacon and the venison this Fall. I am still working up condomed loads for it. Then I will start with the Lyman 266469 mould and see how that works out. If not, I got a 2 cavity Lee custom mould some years back as part of a GB Mark Harris ran (I think that's who ran it).

Doc