Lurkers & Newbies>>>Getting Started<<<How many $$$?

[OS OK]

Can I afford to begin reloading? - Bacon Economics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu2fbizruoI)

Can I afford to begin casting bullets? - Bacon Economics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b37y_x3STTY)

This is one of the best $/per round breakdowns I've seen anywhere on the web.

If your not sure about getting into our wonderful hobby? Well . . .

Please take a few minutes and decide for yourself.

After deciding to 'pull the trigger' you'll find all the help here that you could possibly need!

"Hope to see more of you 'NEWB'S' joining us here...good luck...OS OK!"

[shoot-n-lead]

Charlie...good post!

[reddog81]

Interesting video and good analysis. As long as you've got a cheap source of lead casting is worth it (assuming you shoot much).

The only problem I see in the video is the example they show only saves $70 per year on casting for 9mm. I wouldn't waste my time buying all the supplies and learning to cast if all I shot was 9mm and all I would save is $70... If all I shot was 9mm I probably wouldn't even bother reloading. The potential for saving kick in when you start shooting the more expensive rounds - 44 Mag, 357 Mag, .30-06, or even 45 ACP. Even then I'd be afraid to see an in depth analysis of all the money I've "saved" by buying $1,000's in equipment.

[daloper]

I know that when I bought my Ruger SRH in 480 I was paying $16.00 for a box of 20 rounds. Now they are $36.00 for 20 rounds. The only way I can afford to shoot it is by casting and reloading my own. My luck was that my uncle who is 86 yrs old decided to get out of casting and passed his equipment and lead alloy down to me. Other than the molds and sizer for what I shoot that he did not, I am covered. That said my wife is not that happy with my uncle.

[shoot-n-lead]

Interesting video and good analysis. As long as you've got a cheap source of lead casting is worth it (assuming you shoot much).

The only problem I see in the video is the example they show only saves $70 per year on casting for 9mm. I wouldn't waste my time buying all the supplies and learning to cast if all I shot was 9mm and all I would save is $70... If all I shot was 9mm I probably wouldn't even bother reloading. The potential for saving kick in when you start shooting the more expensive rounds - 44 Mag, 357 Mag, .30-06, or even 45 ACP. Even then I'd be afraid to see an in depth analysis of all the money I've "saved" by buying $1,000's in equipment.

But, those $1000's of dollars in equipment are not lost...if you spent your money wisely, it is very likely that you could get near all of your money back, by selling it.

[reddog81]

shoot-n-lead, You are correct in that most of the related equipment retains it's value surprisingly well. As long as you don't abuse your stuff it's not hard to get 75% back when you sell it. A lot of my equipment was purchased used and at the best price I could find. I could turn around and sell half of it for more than I paid - i.e. the Hornady LNL I bought for $250.

But that's assuming you're going to ever sell it. I haven't ever sold any of my casting or reloading stuff so it's a moot point for me so far.

The other variable you should consider is the time invested. In order to cast, PC or lube, size, load up 1,000 rounds of 9mm it would take close to 10 hours or much longer if using a single stage press. you can buy 1,000 rounds of 9mm for $200. If you value your time at anything above minimum wage casting and reloading 9mm is a labor of love and not a money saving proposition.

[shoot-n-lead]

shoot-n-lead, You are correct in that most of the related equipment retains it's value surprisingly well. As long as you don't abuse your stuff it's not hard to get 75% back when you sell it. A lot of my equipment was purchased used and at the best price I could find. I could turn around and sell half of it for more than I paid - i.e. the Hornady LNL I bought for $250.

But that's assuming you're going to ever sell it. I haven't ever sold any of my casting or reloading stuff so it's a moot point for me so far.

The other variable you should consider is the time invested. In order to cast, PC or lube, size, load up 1,000 rounds of 9mm it would take close to 10 hours or much longer if using a single stage press. you can buy 1,000 rounds of 9mm for $200. If you value your time at anything above minimum wage casting and reloading 9mm is a labor of love and not a money saving proposition.

I agree...but I think the guy stated that if he only loaded 9mm, that he would buy it. He was just using that as an example.

As for time to cast and reload...I spend what probably would be...tv time...so, the time thing doesn't have anything to do with it.

I cast for and reload more cartridges that are EXPENSIVE...a lot of bigbore...and the savings are real...I don't care what the naysayers have to say about it. It allows me to shoot all I want, anytime I want...sure couldn't do that with factory ammo.

Also, I have bought so much of my equipment used and in buy out deals...I have all of the stuff that I need and I have very little invested. As an example, I bought my last Dillon in a buyout deal...all of the stuff was new...a PILE of stuff...sold off what I didn't have a use for and recovered almost all that I paid for the entire lot.

[OS OK]

I read this 'value your time' statement a lot in our threads here on the forum...I'm not sure I understand how to do this?

This is a hobby and as far as I know there is no legal way I can do this hobby and make money at it. Perhaps collecting brass or lead and cleaning or ingotizing or casting and selling the results would make a few bucks but...as far as handloading...the final assembly of finished rounds won't legally make any thing but something we use in pleasure seeking, the shooting of our weapons.

We do these things after our 'honeydo's and upkeep of the home or yard work' is done...it is our spare time to use as we see fit...for some it's trying to have a relaxing and fun sport, a hobby. If our rounds are purchased, then every shot we take, the cost of that shot is completely gone up in smoke. On the other hand, if we shoot our own hand made rounds then after every shot we actually save the difference in the purchase of that ammo...it sorta goes towards promoting the hobby...more money is left in the budget to shoot even more should we choose.

Valuing our time? There is value in always having whatever rounds we want to shoot...there's value in the satisfaction of making that ammo...there's value in digging in the berm and getting re-use of the boolits we find...but a value in 'off work' time in itself?

The only way I can see value in our 'off work' time is to go back to work, punch the clock on your time off...actually get paid for the time you would otherwise allot to handloading...that would be a value...but, you prolly wouldn't shoot as much.

God forbid...'working on your time off'...you might end up a millionaire or something! . . . :bigsmyl2:

[dverna]

My numbers show even if you must purchase foundry lead, money will be saved.

I still reload 12 ga shotgun shells even though the savings are not that much....but I shoot over 400 boxes a year...so it adds up. And my equipment is all paid off....not talking MEC's either. Spolar and PW800+ with auto-drive.

[TexasGrunt]

I'm no longer able to work. This happened to be just before I turned 52, my chronic back problems took a major turn for the worse. Then just a few months after I turned 52 I was diagnosed with aggressive prostate cancer.

As it sits today I'm dealing with a leakage problem due to the prostate cancer. To be short I'm leaking like a funnel. I have to have my wife help me change my Depends every couple of hours. I have a clamp I can use but I can only wear it for about 4 hours and it's damn uncomfortable.

I love to fish. I've got a decent boat that hasn't been on the water in over four months. Too hard to fish with my condition. My wife doesn't like going out on the boat and I doubt any of my buddies are going to help me change my Depends :p

I don't leave the house much, maybe once or twice a week for a short time.

All I have is time on my hands. Way too much time. I started casting boolits in January. It's the most fun I've had in years. I had been casting fishing lures and jigs for over 30 years. Casting boolits is WAY different. Much more demanding. I don't even want to guess how much I've spent since I started. I already had the Pro-Melt as I grew tired of Lee pots a few years back. I do know I've cast enough boolits to cover my costs. Now I just need time to shoot them. I mainly shoot .45 ACP and 10mm. Now I can really afford to shoot my .38 SPL, .357 Mag and .44 Mag. I'm working on turning my .223 bolt action into a .22 rimfire replacement. It's not really saving me any money but it sure is taking up all that empty time.

Back when I was working I never would have had the time to do the casting that I am now. I was working around 55-60 hours a week in a physical job. When I came home I was beat. I regarded reloading as a necessary evil. I only reloaded because I was shooting 300-500 rounds of .45 a week and SWMBO didn't give me enough allowance to buy that much factory ammo. Buying cast bullets and reloading cut the cost down enough she didn't object.

Casting keeps me sane. I'll bet my Pro-Melt is running 25-30 hours a week. I've got a very comfortable chair at my casting station so I'm able to spend time out there. I started with Lee molds. They work great for starting out. I'm trying to convince SWMBO that I need to upgrade my molds. I picked up a few Lyman/RCBS molds in a trade. I've purchased a few more here and there. I still don't have a decent mold for my .45, everytime I find one on evilBay they go for as much as a new mold. I kind of wish the NOE specials this month had been a .45 mold.

[lightman]

Wow Tex, sorry to hear this! I hope things improve for you.

I've bought a few 4 cavity molds lately and they are a joy to use. I would not want anything bigger, the 4 bangers seem like a good compromise. They are heavy, but not too heavy, and the bullets add up quicker than they do with a smaller mold.

We just got home after meeting a couple of friends for supper and drinks. During the conversation, I mentioned that me and a friend or two were planning on casting tomorrow. He ask me if I saved a lot by casting! :p I said yeah sure, with free lead the bullets are nothing but the pot, molds, sizer, lube, ect ect are $XXX. About like you tying flys. He laughed, and said he understands!

Ones time is worth something. It just depends how much pleasure you get from what you are doing. There have been times that I paid people to do things that I could do because I could make more money by working. Mowing the yard was one of these. Now that I'm retired I do things that I did not have time to do while working. Like picking up a wheelweight on a street corner!

[Ateam]

I find the real benefit to casting, reloading, load development, etc, is that is requires you to think critical about what you are doing and what you want to accomplish. I know that all of this has been hashed out before by many others, but there is a sense of accomplishment that is good for the soul and keeps the mind alive.

[shoot-n-lead]

Tex, sorry about your trouble and I just sent a prayer for you.

I do understand what you are saying about casting...it added more to my reloading, shooting and enjoying my guns than anything that I have ever started.

[RogerDat]

Good video and a fair assessment of price. The problem if you want to call it that comes in when one spends a whole lot of money trying to save a little bit per round. On the other hand the cost for casting did not take into account scrounging for lead and getting it for better prices. I figure most of what I cast an load runs closer to 7 cents than 9 cents.

I enjoy doing it. The casting is fun, the reloading is fun, the shooting stuff I made myself likewise fun. More fun than yard work, way more fun than plumbing, near tie with camping. Somewhat less fun than a getaway weekend with the wife. :-) But in a perfect world, wife and I go camping without the kids or grandkids and do some shooting while in the woods and some chillaxing around the campfire.

My time has value, and I guess I could work overtime or take a side job and buy lots of ammo with less of it invested but what fun would that be?

[runfiverun]

I done a run of 10-K 9mm rounds last spring/summer.
I picked up all of the brass for free.
the mold was about 100$
the lead was leftover from when they gave it to you. [180lbs]
the primers were 11.99 up through 27.99 depending on if purchased before or after Klinton. [call it 200$]
the rest of a 104$ jug of bulls-eye got used up.
so about 3 cents each.
I can't buy 22's for that price.
if I had to buy the lead you could tack on another 180$
that's still under a nickel a shot. [4.8 cents]

time is a little harder to figure since I broke it up into smaller sessions.
3 casting runs.
5 sizing sessions
and I loaded some here and some there, and was loading 45 colt and 45 acp during the same time frame. [on different machines]

[reddog81]

I agree the time part is hard to value but it can't be ignored. If someone is interested only in reloading and casting due to the money savings they will probably be disappointed when they realize the time and amount of work involved. However if they want to shoot more, shoot better ammo, shoot ammo you made yourself, takes pride in their work, wants to test, analyze and start the whole process over when they think something might be able to be done better than that's great.

I think setting realistic exceptations is also important. Some people just want cheap ammo to shoot and reloading sounds like an easy way to do that. Reloading probably isn't the answer for them.

[shoot-n-lead]

I agree the time part is hard to value but it can't be ignored. If someone is interested only in reloading and casting due to the money savings they will probably be disappointed when they realize the time and amount of work involved. However if they want to shoot more, shoot better ammo, shoot ammo you made yourself, takes pride in their work, wants to test, analyze and start the whole process over when they think something might be able to be done better than that's great.

I think setting realistic exceptations is also important. Some people just want cheap ammo to shoot and reloading sounds like an easy way to do that. Reloading probably isn't the answer for them.

Depends on what they want to shoot.

I shoot a lot of 44 special...can't buy it for less than about $70 per 100.

Buying cast bullets...it can be reloaded for less than $30 per 100

No problem to load 200 per hour on a Lee turret press...$80 in savings per hour ain't too bad.

If they make $20 per hour on their job...they will have to work 4 hours to pay the difference between buying that 44 special and reloading it. Now, I am not a financial expert, but with my limited knowledge of finances...that seems to make it worthwhile.

[runfiverun]

yeah the per round savings can add up depending on what your shooting.
I think most new reloaders are looking at 20 round boxes of 30-06 ammo at 30$ going
whaat?
come on.

when we look at the simple economics of it you have to load in lots of 100 or 1,000 to realize the savings in a real world way.
you can buy the bullets, powder, primers, and brass and get that cost down to 50% right off the shelf.
but it's 5 cycles on the brass later where your savings come in.
guy's are too used to buying and shooting 20-50 rounds of ammo in a session.
[unless they shoot shot guns]
they have a hard time fathoming when someone walks in with an ammo can full of 0-6 ammo and is gonna be there all day 'doin stuff'.

[plainsman456]

Don't really care to put a dollar amount on my time,along with the equipment costs.

I don't do it to save money i do it to relax.

If i thought that my time was so valuable i would not even try it.
Besides the reloading,casting and other gadgets i have were not bought at one time.

I guess some folks just need to justify stuff.
Have fun casting and shooting,it pays for itself.

[clintsfolly]

I never saved a dime loading just shot more and had fun loading and casting!

[robg]

I recon on half the cost if you cast and hand load ,scrounge my lead but then I'm a poor boy .

[Plate plinker]

I like be able to make up custom loads too. And as noted I can shoot more for the same amount of dollars as factory ammo.

[dondiego]

I started reloading because I couldn't afford to shoot since I was so poor in college. Books, tuition, my apartment rent, and food were on top of the budget priority list. (I kept a little out for beer and women of course!) I crammed a full 4 year curriculum into 6 short years! I had to work the whole time. Now I am better off and still reload because I like to. I like to make lot of my own stuff.

[TexasGrunt]

My .45 ACP loads are running me around $0.08-$0.10 each with my cast boolits, and that's probably a bit high. I love being able to go the range and burn 3-400 rounds and not knock a hole in the months budget.

$0.0133 per load for WST
$0.025 per primer
$0.015 per 200 gr SWC

That's $0.0533 per round. Add in a couple of cents for equipment and it gets real cheap. I save even more on .44 Mag, .38 Spl, .357 Mag and 10mm.

$9/100 for .45 Acp vs $35/100 adds up real quick.

[JBinMN]

Round numbers, nothing exact...Pound of powder costs me about $20 with tax. 7000 grains to a pound. Using 4.5 grains per cartridge, that would be 1556 per pound. $20 / 1500 = $0.013 cents each. Lets just say 1 cent. $0.01.

Primers by the 100 cost me about $4.00 a pack, so $4.00 x 15 = $60.00 , then divided by 1500 = $0.04 each

So, right there for 9mm there is around a nickel (0.05) each so far & that is being generous or less than < actual cost.

I just reload cases that I have shot from buying the cartridges loaded commercially , so the brass is being recycled & has only a "used" value & I am not sure what that would be, but I do know that I have seen prices vary for once fired brass that range from $0.016 to $0.07 each. So, whether one buys mnf. cartidges & fires them like I have, or bought some once fired brass...Let's just say $0.025 each for 1500 rounds, that would equal $37.50, but along with our powder & primers the total per round is now about $0.075.

I used COWW so far & they are free to me, but since lead is going currently at around $1.01 or so , lets say that COWW cost us $1.00 a pound (which we know is very high, since many can get it, if not free, for very little cost). Since we can take the 1 pound, & convert to 7k grains,then divide for a 125 grain boolit, we get 56 boolits per pound, or $0.018 each. we round to $0.02 and add to the $0.075 of the primer powder & case for a total of $0.095 each cartridge without labor & being liberal with costs by rounding up. I would guess that the actual cost is lower, so I will use just $0.09 each to do the next math...

{Note: If you buy commercial 125 grain bullets(9 mm) the approx.cost is $0.10-0.15 or so, depending on source & amounts purchased, but you are still making a savings over commercial manf. cartridges, but not on the cost of the ones you cast yourself.}

If you buy a 50 round pack of commercial bullets, with a cost of about $15.00, there is a cost of $0.30 per round. So, based on the $0.30 per 9mm commercial round, you have a savings of about $0.21 for reloaded rounds, less time involved.

Now we are getting to the savings/costs...

Timewise...If you can make up 50 boolits in an hour, you are making $10.50 per hour, based on the numbers we have used.

I realize that I did not add in the cost of re-loading equipment & materials other than what goes into each cartridge you buy commercially. (<meaning the powder/primer/casing/boolit.) I am not figuring in casting time either. I realize this is just using liberal material costs also... Keep that in mind please. This is just a simple effort to determine a cost and is not applicable to everyones loads, choices of powders , availability etc. ( < I should not have to put that in here, but surely someone is gonna crab about how I did not take this or that into consideration. They can do this themselves if they want a different calculation, eh? LOL ;) )

9 mm- Reloaded Cast Boolit Cartridge Cost Ea.(Approx.)



Powder $0.01
Primer $0.04
Casing $0.025
Boolet $0.02

Total = $0.095 (< Using the numbers from above)


OK now... I am just putting out the basics for everyone & myself included to know what "might be" the cost of a reloaded 9mm boolit is , compared to a commercial bullet, for the sake of pondering on.. Not really scientific, so please keep that in mind. Hypothetical stuff & all that...
;)

You can extrapolate from this info to try to determine the costs of other things anyway, so IMO, it was worth the time to figure this all out & type it here...

Some one owes me at least $10.50 for this... Where do I send the bill... LOL
;) :D

[TexasGrunt]

Brass cost on pistol cartridges is basically nil since you can reload most of them till you lose them. I consider brass a one time cost like equipment. That takes the above estimate down to $0.075 at the most.

[JBinMN]

Brass cost on pistol cartridges is basically nil since you can reload most of them till you lose them. I consider brass a one time cost like equipment. That takes the above estimate down to $0.075 at the most.

That change would not surprise me a bit... I went "rough" on numbers. Of Course...

I proposed a "possible".. A "hypothetical"...
:)

Everyone has different costs for things & such. Depending on where they purchase, how much they purchase, where they live.. More variables... Etc..

and...

BEFORE any time is involved.

;)
Glad ya took the time to read the post. At least one person did.
LOL
:D

[CASTER OF LEAD]

I didn't read all posts in this thread ,but I look at this as a hobby first off. Next I see it as "my time" ,to relax and enjoy something I love to do. It also allows for saving money as compared to buying factory ammo. Thus shoot more for the save amount of money. The best thing about it is that there is a certain degree of self reliance built in ,as well as the quality control of the round you are making. Plain and simple I am an addict !!! Most of us are ,and just won't admit it. Lol Just my .02 - CASTER