Another cruise missile thread...

[Kegcaissy]

Hi!

I got the cruise missile (170gr for 6.5mm) in the mail. I'm currently looking to find data for this bullet weight in 6.5X55mm now... These will be shot out of a krag carbine. I'm not trying to start another storm on the capability of this bullet but i need help to find a starting point to try to make it shoot (even if it dosen't work, the process is fun!!). I'm going to start with 18gr of IMR 4198 and i will try to send it at about 1500fps. Any ideas to help?

[Kegcaissy]

anyone?

[mrrch]

A few of us have shortened the mold to produce around a 150 grain boolit. I found that the 170 did not fly straight from my swede M96. Much better with the 150 but I am only plinking at targets.

[Kegcaissy]

this i an option for me but not for the same reason , i'm unable to find data for this particular boolit...

[MUSTANG]

Kegcaissy:

Go to the below link and you'll see some suggestions on using Unique and 2400 with cast in the 6.5 x 55.


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?276132-Unique-or-2400-for-6-5x55

[Kegcaissy]

Can i just use the data in the sticky? Cast boolits in military rifles. It says that these loads are for military rifles from 7mm to 8mm...

[MUSTANG]

Here is a link to the 48th Edition of the Lyman Reloading book in pdf format:

http://www.j-how.net/test/Lyman%2048th%20Reloading%20Handbook%20%5Bblackatk% 5D.pdf

Go the the book page 178 for 6.5 x 55 mm loads and you will find 140 and 150 grain cast boolit loads listed. I'd start with the minimum loads for the 150 Grain boolit and see how thinks work out for you.

[ak_milsurp]

I use 13.8 gr of 2400 with the 170gr cruise Missile. Works well for my needs.....

[mac60]

I've managed to shoot several good groups with 13.0 gr. 2400.

[Kegcaissy]

Can i use something other than 2400? I don't have that powder on hands.

[MUSTANG]

Yes; rather than list all the things you COULD USE​, tell us what powder you have on hand.

[Yodogsandman]

This was at only 50 yards and just 5 shots.

[jonp]

Wasn't this a thread that ended badly for several members?

[Kegcaissy]

i have Unique, IMR 4198, AA2495 on hands right now

[15meter]

I use 13.8 gr of 2400 with the 170gr cruise Missile. Works well for my needs.....

If you don't find a load for the powder you have I put a vote for the 2400--I load 14 grains to good effect for paper punching or ringing dingers @ 100 yards with that bullet, although I gas check mine just because I had the gas checks given to me and I'll never use them anywhere else.

[MUSTANG]

For many locations in the US, 2400 remains an "UNOBTAINIUM" element.

Kegcaissy:

In the case of IMR4198; I will refer you back to the Lyman Reloading Manual 48th Edition PDF I previously cited (Page 178 in the manual). It lists 18 grains of IMR-4198 as a start for the 150 Grain #266673 boolit. I would load (5) rounds at that weight of powder and start from there for your cruise missile to see what you get, then test up and down from there watching for any pressure signs (flattened primers for example).

[Kegcaissy]

For many locations in the US, 2400 remains an "UNOBTAINIUM" element.

Kegcaissy:

In the case of IMR4198; I will refer you back to the Lyman Reloading Manual 48th Edition PDF I previously cited (Page 178 in the manual). It lists 18 grains of IMR-4198 as a start for the 150 Grain #266673 boolit. I would load (5) rounds at that weight of powder and start from there for your cruise missile to see what you get, then test up and down from there watching for any pressure signs (flattened primers for example).

This is exactly my plan. Alliant 2400 is overpriced here, i will use IMR4198.

[Buckshot]

.............The "Cruise Missile" is actually a bit too much of a good thing for overall shooting, but DOES supply the option of being just about able to shoot through an 8' long 4x4 lengthwise :-)

http://www.fototime.com/8B8B8013CDC151A/standard.jpg

The above photo has 2 custom numbers in it. #1 Is an old Lyman offering (a HP in my example) and weighed 128 grs. The solid version would have run about 132 grs and was the basis for the "6.5mm Kurtz" ................

http://www.fototime.com/C0FF51B58087E30/standard.jpg

This was done a few times, including in Lee 6 cavity blocks. #2 Above was another Group Buy done here many moons ago by a member whose handle was Jumptrap. It's a 140gr slug which was done in a Lee 2 cav mould. #3 is a Lyman so called "Hi-Velocity" design which is no longer available. It dropped from the mould @ 153gr. It has been superseded by a similar weight slug having a different design. They deleted the lube groove on the bore rider, did away with the tapered front drive band, narrower drive bands and finally a more rounded nose. This one weighs ~ 153grs. #4 is obviously the "Cruise Missile".

http://www.fototime.com/B55472729A707A9/standard.jpg

The long and the short of it. Left is obviously the 132gr Kurtz alongside the Oldfeller Cruise Missile. I've got data for the CM but it's too late now to go get it. I'll try to get some data posted tomorrow. It won't be with any powder you listed tho'.

..................Buckshot

[Kegcaissy]

.............The "Cruise Missile" is actually a bit too much of a good thing for overall shooting, but DOES supply the option of being just about able to shoot through an 8' long 4x4 lengthwise :-)

http://www.fototime.com/8B8B8013CDC151A/standard.jpg

The above photo has 2 custom numbers in it. #1 Is an old Lyman offering (a HP in my example) and weighed 128 grs. The solid version would have run about 132 grs and was the basis for the "6.5mm Kurtz" ................

http://www.fototime.com/C0FF51B58087E30/standard.jpg

This was done a few times, including in Lee 6 cavity blocks. #2 Above was another Group Buy done here many moons ago by a member whose handle was Jumptrap. It's a 140gr slug which was done in a Lee 2 cav mould. #3 is a Lyman so called "Hi-Velocity" design which is no longer available. It dropped from the mould @ 153gr. It has been superseded by a similar weight slug having a different design. They deleted the lube groove on the bore rider, did away with the tapered front drive band, narrower drive bands and finally a more rounded nose. This one weighs ~ 153grs. #4 is obviously the "Cruise Missile".

http://www.fototime.com/B55472729A707A9/standard.jpg

The long and the short of it. Left is obviously the 132gr Kurtz alongside the Oldfeller Cruise Missile. I've got data for the CM but it's too late now to go get it. I'll try to get some data posted tomorrow. It won't be with any powder you listed tho'.

..................Buckshot

more data is really better than no data!

thank you sir

[MUSTANG]

Ran across another reference on the site here citing a load using Unique with the Cruise Missile. See Post #191.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?39923-10-Grs-Unique-The-Universal-Cast-Boolit-Rifle-Load/page10

Unique seems to be easier to obtain than 2400 for many of us; so you might look at it as a slower velocity option.

[Buckshot]

Lee Custom C-268 - 170 - RF (Oldfeller/Cruise Missile)

M96 Swede:

IMR 4227, 16.0 grs, 1570 fps
Surp WC 872, 34.0 grs, Dacron, 1752 fps
Surp 7383, 21.6 grs, 1534 fps
Surp 7383, 24.6 grs, 1740 fps

Unique,
9.0, 1270 fps
10.0, 1345 fps
11.0, 1442 fps
12.0, 1505 fps
13.0, 1564 fps
14.0, 1666 fps (primers starting to show pressure).

Red Dot,
7.0, 1056 fps
8.0, 1165 fps
9.0, 1262 fps
9.5, 1308 fps
10.0, 1350 fps
10.5, 1410 fps
11.0, 1430 fps
12.0, 1530 fps
13.0, 1603 fps (primers starting to show pressure)

H 4198,
16.0, 1585 fps
17.0, 1650 fps
18.0, 1700 fps
19.0, 1780 fps
20.0, 1850 fps

IMR 4895,
20.0, 1580 fps
21.0, 1660 fps
22.0, 1720 fps
23.0, 1790 fps

IMR 4350,
27.0, 1780 fps
28.0, 1850 fps
29.0, 1890 fps
30.0, 1990 fps


M38 Swede:

Surp WC872, 34.0 grs, Dacron, 1652 fps

Note:
Loads shown for 4198, 4895, and 4350 used Dacron. It's use is entirely up to you. I did not use a filler with Unique or Red Dot. No OAL's, case headstamps, or primers used were listed. None of these loads are listed in any manuals as the slug was not a mainstream creation. Anyone's use of this data is entirely at their own risk, but was entirely safe in MY rifles, with MY alloy, OAL's, and sizing diameters.

I've tried cast in all my 6.5x55's which have consisted of 2 x M38, 2 x M96, a M94, and a Ag42B Ljungman. Almost without exception the overall best accuracy and the least finicky cast boolit was the 132gr Kurtz (which is available from NOE). Not to say that the long heavy slug can't be accurate, as it can be. It's simply not the most forgiving design IMHO.

..................Buckshot

[swheeler]

Very good information there^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ thanks.

[Kegcaissy]

Lee Custom C-268 - 170 - RF (Oldfeller/Cruise Missile)

M96 Swede:

IMR 4227, 16.0 grs, 1570 fps
Surp WC 872, 34.0 grs, Dacron, 1752 fps
Surp 7383, 21.6 grs, 1534 fps
Surp 7383, 24.6 grs, 1740 fps

Unique,
9.0, 1270 fps
10.0, 1345 fps
11.0, 1442 fps
12.0, 1505 fps
13.0, 1564 fps
14.0, 1666 fps (primers starting to show pressure).

Red Dot,
7.0, 1056 fps
8.0, 1165 fps
9.0, 1262 fps
9.5, 1308 fps
10.0, 1350 fps
10.5, 1410 fps
11.0, 1430 fps
12.0, 1530 fps
13.0, 1603 fps (primers starting to show pressure)

H 4198,
16.0, 1585 fps
17.0, 1650 fps
18.0, 1700 fps
19.0, 1780 fps
20.0, 1850 fps

IMR 4895,
20.0, 1580 fps
21.0, 1660 fps
22.0, 1720 fps
23.0, 1790 fps

IMR 4350,
27.0, 1780 fps
28.0, 1850 fps
29.0, 1890 fps
30.0, 1990 fps


M38 Swede:

Surp WC872, 34.0 grs, Dacron, 1652 fps

Note:
Loads shown for 4198, 4895, and 4350 used Dacron. It's use is entirely up to you. I did not use a filler with Unique or Red Dot. No OAL's, case headstamps, or primers used were listed. None of these loads are listed in any manuals as the slug was not a mainstream creation. Anyone's use of this data is entirely at their own risk, but was entirely safe in MY rifles, with MY alloy, OAL's, and sizing diameters.

I've tried cast in all my 6.5x55's which have consisted of 2 x M38, 2 x M96, a M94, and a Ag42B Ljungman. Almost without exception the overall best accuracy and the least finicky cast boolit was the 132gr Kurtz (which is available from NOE). Not to say that the long heavy slug can't be accurate, as it can be. It's simply not the most forgiving design IMHO.

..................Buckshot


Thank you

[leebuilder]

Yes thanks for sharing!
I was thinking about trimming my Noe 163gr mold, so I trimmed a pile of cast Boolits so I could get twenty or so boolits at +or- 0.5gr difference in weight.
Well got er done applied my 45-45-10-10
Now I know it is a wide grouping but I was shooting in -17c wind chill, Brite sun, snow covered range and my bum was wet, not whining but it was less than perfect conditions.
Rifle-M38 with out of spec headspace, bore is near mint
Sized.to 0.268.
22 rounds some holes are touching and no yaw.
191741
Be well

[iron brigade]

I shoot the cruise missile in a type 38 Arisaka with 19 grains of I4198. Sized to .268, it is extremely accurate. I have shot several 1.5" groups @100 yards. I tried quite a few different powders and 4198 was the cats. The rifle looks like hell, it should it went through a war. But the bore is beautiful.

[Pirate69]

I shoot the cruise missile in a type 38 Arisaka with 19 grains of I4198. Sized to .268, it is extremely accurate. I have shot several 1.5" groups @100 yards. I tried quite a few different powders and 4198 was the cats. The rifle looks like hell, it should it went through a war. But the bore is beautiful.

Would one expect that the cruise missile to shoot better in the Arisaka than the Swede? If so, what makes the difference?

[iron brigade]

The rifling. I believe the Jap rifle has metford rifling. It also likes hard bullets run fairly fast.

[Pirate69]

More information learned. Thanks

[Pirate69]

I found a source of once fired 6.5 Norma brass in Sweden. With shipping, it appears to be cheaper than what is available in the US. He also has other Norma brass as well. I have ordered twice and am very satisfied. If anyone is interested, PM me and I will provide an email address to contact him. I do not benefit from any sales. I am only passing on some information.


Hope this does not violate any forum rules. If it does, please let me know and I will delete the post. Hope this is not considered a highjacking.