I wouldlike to say the last wildcat post!

[andym79]

Hi guys, sorry for flooding our site with wildcat questions!


If you where to choose between these two wildcats in a Win 94 which one and why?



I have given them both long necks for large cast bullets with plenty of grooves.

[M-Tecs]

Some will claim the more tapered case will feed better in a 94. I am not one of them. My 375 Win 94 feeds and working the action feels the same as the 30/30's manufactured around the same time.

[Texas by God]

I'm no help they both look good.

[Preacher Jim]

i would go with the 358

[runfiverun]

what's wrong with the 35-30 did someone break it?

[NoAngel]

35/30 or .357 Herrett work well. Both will put a deer on the table and fit in a 94.
No reason to reinvent the wheel when there's viable options already.

[FergusonTO35]

Looks like we have a .35-30 and .356 WCF here. I would go with the smaller one myself, if I should stumble across a Marlin with a bad bore for cheap that's what I will rebore it to.

[Kestrel4k]

Not many folks talk about backthrust these days, but since the M94 doesn't have the strongest or stiffest action, I would go with the case w/ less taper.
PO Ackley demonstrated this behavior by successfully firing an improved ctg. (.30-30 AI ??) in a Win M94 with the locking lugs completely removed, IIRC.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I like the .358 diameter better also... But 375 would be far better. My simple reasoning is "Bigger holes are always better" !
What I have seen I real life is that maybe a few times "too much gun" may apply. But when that monster corn cruncher appears in a "need all the "thwap" possible situation I do not want to be found "under gunned" in any way.
Lever actions are not the place to scimp on "thwap" on target. That comes from a wide flat nose that hits with all the authority possible.
So if those are the only two options left in your consideration always choose the "fat one".
Mike in Peru

[andym79]

Not many folks talk about backthrust these days, but since the M94 doesn't have the strongest or stiffest action, I would go with the case w/ less taper.
PO Ackley demonstrated this behavior by successfully firing an improved ctg. (.30-30 AI ??) in a Win M94 with the locking lugs completely removed, IIRC.

So are you saying the more bottlenecked the better, because more of the force spreads out laterally against the chamber wall rather than against the bolt?

[Kestrel4k]

Perhaps the better term was 'bolt thrust'; I confess it has been a while.
A straight case tends to grip the chamber walls better, while a gradually-tapered case grips less & therefore puts more force on the bolt. We still have the upper limit dictated by the strength of the brass case - so we can't run higher pressures per se, but cases w/ minimal taper puts less force on the bolt -> lugs -> action etc. Not something I've explored personally, but was a pet topic of PO Ackley - who knew one or two things about wildcatting. ;-)

[andym79]

So the second case the 356w long neck woul be kinder on the action if chamber pressure were the same?

Makes sense that a tapered design will want to push back more.

Do you think the 356 long neck neck could be formed by removing 150ths from the bottom of a die and opening up the top i.e cutting it off using a standard 356 die?

[Good Cheer]

I found that non-tapered cases posed more forming problems.

190559

[andym79]

I can well belive that, in fact that was my main drive in drawing up the first wildcat, i think forming it is almost as simple as running it through a cut short 9.3x74r but I will need to try it first.


Doing the 358 die method i could see ruining a lot of shoulders it would need to be more like the first and fireformed.

[andym79]

On second thoughts the long neck 356 the second one will be easier to form pushing the 356 or 444 through a 9.3x74 will be hard work for every case only the neck section would be required.

The 38-56 however should be able to get me 3/4 of the way there, what do you think?

[rwadley]

I found that non-tapered cases posed more forming problems.

190559

I really like the look of the 38 Long Cox.

[runfiverun]

fire forming is easy enough.
you also have the option of hydraulic forming in the die.
the composition of the brass will also dictate how easy it will form to shape.

[BAGTIC]

Depending on case adhesion to absorb bolt thrust can result in case stretch and eventual case head separation.

[andym79]

So are you saying its a balancing act and a slight taper is a compromise?


Not many folks talk about backthrust these days, but since the M94 doesn't have the strongest or stiffest action, I would go with the case w/ less taper.
PO Ackley demonstrated this behavior by successfully firing an improved ctg. (.30-30 AI ??) in a Win M94 with the locking lugs completely removed, IIRC.

I am not sure if that would scare or impress me!
Don't thing I put my face behind a bolt with no locking lug though.

The 30-30 AI still taper a fair bit compared with say a 308W though.

I hear a lot of reference to the 94 not being that srong, but I think its underated, I am sure that a marlin 336 has a stronger receiver but I don't think its bolt lock up can be as strong!

JMB knew what he was doing, the man made to my knowledge no bad guns and his 92 design is good for 60,000 (454 casull), and his high wall has been a test bed for countless cartridges.


Greetings
I like the .358 diameter better also... But 375 would be far better. My simple reasoning is "Bigger holes are always better" !
What I have seen I real life is that maybe a few times "too much gun" may apply. But when that monster corn cruncher appears in a "need all the "thwap" possible situation I do not want to be found "under gunned" in any way.
Lever actions are not the place to scimp on "thwap" on target. That comes from a wide flat nose that hits with all the authority possible.
So if those are the only two options left in your consideration always choose the "fat one".
Mike in Peru

I like Mikes response choose the "fat one", you can always use the extra capcity or not but if it's not there then it's not.

[OlDeuce]

So AndyM.............what WC are you considering building!!! I'm voting .44 of some kind ....:bigsmyl2:....:guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley::g untootsmiley::guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:

Ol Deuce

[andym79]

So AndyM.............what WC are you considering building!!! I'm voting .44 of some kind ....:bigsmyl2:....:guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley::g untootsmiley::guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:

Ol Deuce

Would like to very much, in fact if the guy I use made 429 barrels I would bite your hand off for that 44 VHS reamer.

Sure I know I can get 429" barrels, but if I go to another smith I will need to discuss the project with them, wait about 3 months before they can be bothered to order a barrel, another 2-3 months before I can get a custom barrel profiled and then another 2-3 months for them to do it and probably another 25% for the pleasure.

If I use the guy I have before he will probably profile and fit it in 5-8 weeks, also I was thinking about doing it as a takedown too. A local guys says he can but seems a bit unsure of it, a couple of others have refused to do a takedown and the guy I usually use has said sure it seems doable enough!

He did offer to tool up for 408 or 429 for me, said if I wan to wait a year or so he will make me a 408 or 429 barrel!

So I can choice is 358, 375, 416 or 423!

I have a 38-55 and a 375w but I don't have any of the others.